Present evidence without hyperbole and ad hominem, and perhaps you will find people will deem it worth their time to discuss things with you.Tommy H said:
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IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
What the hell happened to Malaysian flight 370?
- Thread starter Browndog
- Start date
- Status
Giardiasis said:
:hihi Back to the politics board mate. Come back and see me when you know or perhaps can put up your arguement or any semblance of what you acutally thought that happened. Don't waste my time. You and your US imperialist arguement is so off line its ridiculous.
McCain is little more than a war-mongering puppet for the military "offense" industry. US imperialism's biggest supporter.Phantom said:
Predicable and boring. Oh don't worry mate, I certainly won't waste my time on you. I know a lost cause when I see one.Tommy H said:
Tommy H said:
don't mean to sound macabre, but is there a website (preferably a news/tasteful website) that shows the crash scene unedited? no, i'm not fascinated with dead human bodies... i'd just prefer to view real/unpixelated photos of the site
Azza said:
Maybe, maybe not. But there were enough Australian causalities onboard and the way the their bodies and the crash scene is being treated demands a strong response. Abbott did what he needed to do. I'm the biggest Abbott hater going around but in this case he gets the benefit of the doubt.
Baloo said:
Absolutely - it's critical the international community comes down hard on Putin and Russia for this debacle.
Let's be absolutely clear - Putin and Russia have caused this situation by deliberately destabilising a sovereign state. No shades of grey.
Tommy H said:
They may have been using it, but does that make them right, accidentally mistaken or merely negligent?
If they had news of previous planes being shot down, yet failed to act .........
MH17 is the third plane this week shot down over Ukraine under mysterious circumstances.
http://www.vox.com/2014/7/18/5914139/ukrainian-rebels-shot-down-two-planes-in-the-last-month
We don't yet know who shot down Malaysian Airlines flight MH17, which went down over eastern Ukraine on Thursday. There's no conclusive evidence so far, but speculation is centering on the pro-Russia rebels who have been operating in the region for the last few months.
It's not hard to see why: they are, after all, anti-government rebels who have been attacking Ukrainian government forces. But it's more than that. Rebels have shot down planes before, although they were all military aircraft. And, very recently, Ukrainian military planes in the area have been getting hit with missiles while flying at high altitudes — which suggests that, as with MH17, whoever was shooting at them had some awfully advanced military technology.
Four Ukrainian military planes have been shot down since June. Two of those incidents appear to have almost certainly have been caused by rebels, apparently demonstrating that they have the ability and willingness to shoot down a plane. But the other two were shot down at a high altitude, like the MH17 flight was, and it's not nearly as clear who was responsible.
On June 6, rebels shot down an Ukrainian Air Force Antonov AN-30 surveillance plane — a medium-size, two-propeller military craft that's typically Russian-made. This was near Slavyansk, in eastern Ukraine. Ten days later, on June 16, rebels shot down a big Ukrainian Air Force transport plane, an Il-76, killing all 49 people on board. An Il-76 is much larger than an AN-30 and has four jet engines, more the size of the Boeing 777 that was downed on Thursday.
There's a "but" that makes these two cases very distinct from MH17, though — the AN-30 and ILl-6 were shot down by MANPADS, which stands for man-portable air-defense systems, a small missile launcher you carry on your shoulder. It can only fire to an altitude of about 11,500 feet, but MH17 was flying at 33,000 feet. That's way, way outside of the range of shoulder-fired MANPADS missiles.
That's why, at first, people were wondering if rebels even had the capability to shoot down a high-flying commercial airliner like MH17. But there was another incident just on Monday, July 14, that did not get very much attention at the time. That day, over eastern Ukraine, an Antonov AN-26 Ukrainian military transport plane was hit by a missile while flying over eastern Ukraine — at 21,000 feet altitude. That's far beyond the range of a shoulder-fired system like the MANPADS.
The Ukrainian government didn't blame the ragtag separatist rebels for Monday's shoot-down, though: it suggested that the missile had possibly been fired from Russia, which borders eastern Ukraine. Ukrainian rebels took credit, though, and Ukraine has not presented public evidence pinning the shoot-down on Russian forces.
The BBC's David Stern wrote at the time, "The accusation that Russian forces shot down a Ukrainian transport plane is potentially a game changer. If Russia is indeed targeting Ukrainian aeroplanes from inside its territory, it is an act of aggression of the highest order." Still, Stern acknowledged, "For the Ukrainians not to respond would raise the suspicion that their charge is false — or demonstrate that the Ukrainian military is completely powerless."
Ukraine's lack of a stronger response or presentation of evidence blaming Russia may explain why the Monday shoot-down got comparatively little attention. On the one hand, Russia does have thousands of troops — as many as 12,000 — amassed along its border with eastern Ukraine, and Moscow has actively backed the eastern Ukrainian rebels. On the other hand, firing missiles at Ukrainian aircraft across the border would be a remarkably provocative move, even for Russia.
Then, on Wednesday, a Ukrainian Sukhoi SU-25 fighter jet was shot down over eastern Ukraine, and the Ukrainian government did not at all equivocate in blaming Russia. "A Russian Federation armed forces plane delivered a missile strike at a Ukraine armed forces Su-25 jet which was carrying out tasks over the territory of Ukraine," Ukrainian government official Andrey Lysenko announced at a press conference.
The first few planes shot down over eastern Ukraine were all shot down at low altitude, and apparently by rebels carrying shoulder-mounted MANPADS. While tragic, this was not shocking: eastern Ukraine is an open conflict zone, the rebels are firing at every Ukrainian military target they can find, and MANPADS are basic enough for ragtag irregulars like the eastern Ukrainian rebels to operate.
But the technology of shooting down a high-altitude plane such as MH17, or the high-altitude Ukrainian military aircraft shot down earlier in the week, is much more complex. Analysts are saying the most likely tool is the Buk surface-to-air missile system, typically Russian-made but also used by the Ukrainian military. The Buk system has an altitude range of about 50,000 feet, but it is much more complicated than a shoulder-fired missile. That may be why US officials are now saying they believe the plane was likely shot down by an SA-11 system, which is the American designation for the Buk.
The Buk surface-to-air missile system is a "sophisticated system requiring a whole suite of radar and command vehicles," according to the US embassy in Kiev. In other words, this isn't some shoulder-fired missile in the style of ragtag militias — it's a system that requires several people with real training and resources to coordinate across multiple complex, vehicle-based systems. Typically, firing a Buk takes three vehicles — the launcher itself, a commander vehicle, and a radar vehicle — though some analysts say it is possible for a one-vehicle launcher to operate on its own.
That would seem to significantly narrow down who could be responsible
Even with a week or two of Russian military training, it's very hard to imagine a bunch of Ukrainian volunteer rebels wandering onto this system and knowing how to use it properly.
It is true that Ukrainian rebels appeared to possess the system, likely seized from the Ukrainian military. The rebels had previously claimed to have a Buk system, according to a June 29 report sourced to the rebel Donetsk People's Republic press service. But that does not mean they knew how to use it.
This all suggests that whoever shot down the other planes this week, at least one of which was flying at a high altitude beyond MANPADS range, either were formal military forces or had intensive training from a formal military on surface-to-air missile systems.
That would seem to narrow down the list of suspects pretty significantly. Maybe it was Ukrainian military forces with that training who had defected to the rebels. Maybe it was Ukrainian rebels who had received extensive Russian training on the Buk systems, which would raise the question of why Russia would give this training and what that would mean for Moscow's complicity in the attack. Or maybe the Ukrainian government was right about the first two attacks coming from formal Russian military ground or air forces.
In any of these possible scenarios, it seems most likely that whoever fired on MH17 probably thought they were shooting at another Ukrainian military plane, not realizing it was a civilian airliner. And there is, as yet, no conclusive evidence pointing to Ukrainian rebels gone rogue, Ukrainian rebels backed by Russia, Russian military forces themselves, or anyone else. Still, it's hard to imagine any way the investigation into MH17's downing that would not end with a significant escalation of the Ukraine crisis, which was already severe before Thursday's tragedy.
Agree. Imagine if that material belonged to your kid, wife, hubby, cuz, friend etc.. and you're just sitting there watching it on national television.Azza said:
It was sickening enough watching the dead bodies carried around in those black sacks.
An odd thought is how the rebels blocked the inspectors from arriving to the scene and yet these journos got there easily.
Some rebel prick was carrying the black box around.
Another interesting article.
Which airlines fly over Ukraine? How can you find out your flight route?
http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/which-airlines-fly-over-ukraine-how-can-you-find-out-your-flight-route/story-fnizu68q-1226996428536
PASSENGERS fly over hostile regions of the world every day to get to their chosen destinations, but most just don’t realise.
While it’s extremely rare that a plane flying thousands of metres high will become the target of terrorists, in the wake of the Malaysia Airlines MH17 tragedy questions are being asked about how much we really know about the flight paths we travel on.
Especially as it has emerged that while many airlines flew that exact route over Ukraine that disastrous day, others such as Qantas abandoned flights in the area several months ago.
So who decides where it is and isn’t safe to venture. And how do you know where your flight will go?
Malaysia Airlines said MH17’s route had been declared safe by the UN’s International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) and was not subject to restrictions. The ICAO develops international aviation standards which can be used by various countries when they make their regulations.
Ultimately, while air safety regulators in some parts of the world, such as the US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), have the power to ban their airlines from certain air spaces, most of the flight path decisions are left to the individual airlines who conduct risk assessments.
While the FAA has banned US airlines from flying through several high-risk areas, it’s a different system in Australia. Our airlines are unrestricted, according to the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA).
“We don’t restrict Australian airlines like the US do, but we do put out advice,” a CASA spokesman told news.com.au. “The final decision is up to the airlines.”
War zone or not, airlines will generally fly the shortest route unless it’s deemed too risky, Mikael Robertsson, co-founder of flight tracking website Flight radar 24 told the BBC . That’s because the shorter the route, the less fuel used and thus costs are kept down.
Patrick Smith, airline pilot and author of the book Cockpit Confidential and the website askthepilot.com said it’s very common to fly over hostile areas.
“It is fairly routine for civilian jetliners to overfly areas of conflict,” Mr Smith said. “Dozens of airline flights pass each day over Baghdad, for example. Many of them land there. I’ve personally piloted flights over eastern Ukraine, close to where the Malaysia Airlines (flight) met its fate on Friday.
“There are protocols, as you’d expect. Above restive areas, flights are restricted to particular routes, specific altitudes and airspace sectors.”
What’s more, David Ison, assistant professor of aeronautics and chair of the aeronautic science master’s program at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University in the US told Newsweek : “It’s not unusual to overfly areas of military activity. We used to fly over live fire.”
“You don’t worry about it because you’re so high”.
The fact is, at the end of the day you put your trust in the airline. It’s clear some are thorough. For example, Qantas says it conducts frequent assessments of threats, with a spokesperson saying: “We review our flight paths regularly, including in response to world events, and make any adjustments we consider prudent.”
But it’s impossible to know the steps all of them are taking.
So what can you do to find out about your flight path?
While it’s not information that airlines readily give out, there are ways to find out where your flight will pass over before you take to the skies.
The best way is to use flight tracking websites such as Flightradar24.com, which gives a real-time view of planes around the world.
To find out the routes your airline generally takes, click on the “planes” icon on the top left and search for your flight number, or airline code (e.g. MH20, or MH, which is the code for Malaysia Airlines and is a Kuala Lumpur to Paris flight). Then click the “show on map” option to the right.
Then you’ll see exactly where the plane is, or which routes the airline is flying at that moment. For example, I searched for flight MH20 from Kuala Lumpur to Paris and saw it was passing over Turkey.
You can check the site now and again to see where the flight route ends up, as it tracks it in real time.
You can also look at air safety sitesto find out which regions are deemed dangerous. America’s FAA is a good one.
The Washington Post has pulled together a list of current flight prohibitions issued by the FAA, they include:
Ethiopia: Here flights are banned north of 12 degrees latitude, and it’s warned that aircraft that cross into Ethiopian airspace while taking off or landing at Mandera Airstrip in Kenya may be fired upon.
Iraq: Flights are banned at or below 20,000 feet, except for flights departing or arriving at countries adjacent to Iraq.
Libya: Flights are banned within certain areas, such as the Tripoli Flight Information Region which encompasses small northern sections of Niger and Chad, as well as Libya.
Somalia: Flights cannot go lower than 20,000 feet over Somalia, except for flights departing or arriving at countries adjacent to Iraq.
North Korea: According to a special notice: “North Korea has a history of launching short-range and medium-range ballistic missiles with no warning.” Caution is advised in and around the Pyongyang Flight Information Region east of 132 degrees east longitude, while flights west of that line are prohibited.
Other air space restrictions for US flights exist over Somalia, and now, the Ukraine.
Remember, these restrictions don’t apply to Australian airlines.
“Potentially hostile” regions listed by the FAA include Afghanistan, Congo, the Egypt Sinai Peninsula, Iran, Kenya, Mali, Syria and Yemen.
In terms of what other airlines are doing, Emirates recently stopped flying over parts of Syria as a civil war expanded, while some airlines have curtailed service in Iraq, where violence has escalated between the government and a jihadist militant group.
Last month, a gunman in Pakistan fired on a jetliner that was landing in Peshawar, part of the country’s volatile northwest region, killing a passenger and wounding two other people. Emirates suspended flights to Peshawar, and other carriers cancelled some flights while they reviewed airport security. Two weeks before that, gunmen attacked the country’s busiest airport in Karachi.
Codeshare caution
Also, if you’re wary about ending up on one airline in particular, say Malaysia Airlines, then beware the codeshare.
So what is a codeshare? Many airlines put their name on another airline’s flight so they can say they fly to a certain destination when they actually don’t.
It makes their network appear bigger, and is a mutually beneficial agreement. What it means is that usually you’ll fly on the airline of your choice, until it connected to a partner’s hub (during a stopover), from there you’ll actually end up flying with the other airline.
For example, MH17 was a codeshare flight with KLM Royal Dutch Airlines, so passengers on KLM ended up on the Malaysia Airlines flight. Their flight number KL4103 was also MH17.
Avoid this by keeping an eye out for the words “operated by” on your ticket — that means essentially that you’ll be travelling on a different airline.
Also, you can try Googling your flight number for more information. When Googling “KL4103” a search result shows it’s a codeshare with Malaysia Airlines.
Ultimately, remember that the chances of a similar tragedy as MH17 occurring again are minute.
Which airlines fly over Ukraine? How can you find out your flight route?
http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/which-airlines-fly-over-ukraine-how-can-you-find-out-your-flight-route/story-fnizu68q-1226996428536
PASSENGERS fly over hostile regions of the world every day to get to their chosen destinations, but most just don’t realise.
While it’s extremely rare that a plane flying thousands of metres high will become the target of terrorists, in the wake of the Malaysia Airlines MH17 tragedy questions are being asked about how much we really know about the flight paths we travel on.
Especially as it has emerged that while many airlines flew that exact route over Ukraine that disastrous day, others such as Qantas abandoned flights in the area several months ago.
So who decides where it is and isn’t safe to venture. And how do you know where your flight will go?
Malaysia Airlines said MH17’s route had been declared safe by the UN’s International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) and was not subject to restrictions. The ICAO develops international aviation standards which can be used by various countries when they make their regulations.
Ultimately, while air safety regulators in some parts of the world, such as the US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), have the power to ban their airlines from certain air spaces, most of the flight path decisions are left to the individual airlines who conduct risk assessments.
While the FAA has banned US airlines from flying through several high-risk areas, it’s a different system in Australia. Our airlines are unrestricted, according to the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA).
“We don’t restrict Australian airlines like the US do, but we do put out advice,” a CASA spokesman told news.com.au. “The final decision is up to the airlines.”
War zone or not, airlines will generally fly the shortest route unless it’s deemed too risky, Mikael Robertsson, co-founder of flight tracking website Flight radar 24 told the BBC . That’s because the shorter the route, the less fuel used and thus costs are kept down.
Patrick Smith, airline pilot and author of the book Cockpit Confidential and the website askthepilot.com said it’s very common to fly over hostile areas.
“It is fairly routine for civilian jetliners to overfly areas of conflict,” Mr Smith said. “Dozens of airline flights pass each day over Baghdad, for example. Many of them land there. I’ve personally piloted flights over eastern Ukraine, close to where the Malaysia Airlines (flight) met its fate on Friday.
“There are protocols, as you’d expect. Above restive areas, flights are restricted to particular routes, specific altitudes and airspace sectors.”
What’s more, David Ison, assistant professor of aeronautics and chair of the aeronautic science master’s program at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University in the US told Newsweek : “It’s not unusual to overfly areas of military activity. We used to fly over live fire.”
“You don’t worry about it because you’re so high”.
The fact is, at the end of the day you put your trust in the airline. It’s clear some are thorough. For example, Qantas says it conducts frequent assessments of threats, with a spokesperson saying: “We review our flight paths regularly, including in response to world events, and make any adjustments we consider prudent.”
But it’s impossible to know the steps all of them are taking.
So what can you do to find out about your flight path?
While it’s not information that airlines readily give out, there are ways to find out where your flight will pass over before you take to the skies.
The best way is to use flight tracking websites such as Flightradar24.com, which gives a real-time view of planes around the world.
To find out the routes your airline generally takes, click on the “planes” icon on the top left and search for your flight number, or airline code (e.g. MH20, or MH, which is the code for Malaysia Airlines and is a Kuala Lumpur to Paris flight). Then click the “show on map” option to the right.
Then you’ll see exactly where the plane is, or which routes the airline is flying at that moment. For example, I searched for flight MH20 from Kuala Lumpur to Paris and saw it was passing over Turkey.
You can check the site now and again to see where the flight route ends up, as it tracks it in real time.
You can also look at air safety sitesto find out which regions are deemed dangerous. America’s FAA is a good one.
The Washington Post has pulled together a list of current flight prohibitions issued by the FAA, they include:
Ethiopia: Here flights are banned north of 12 degrees latitude, and it’s warned that aircraft that cross into Ethiopian airspace while taking off or landing at Mandera Airstrip in Kenya may be fired upon.
Iraq: Flights are banned at or below 20,000 feet, except for flights departing or arriving at countries adjacent to Iraq.
Libya: Flights are banned within certain areas, such as the Tripoli Flight Information Region which encompasses small northern sections of Niger and Chad, as well as Libya.
Somalia: Flights cannot go lower than 20,000 feet over Somalia, except for flights departing or arriving at countries adjacent to Iraq.
North Korea: According to a special notice: “North Korea has a history of launching short-range and medium-range ballistic missiles with no warning.” Caution is advised in and around the Pyongyang Flight Information Region east of 132 degrees east longitude, while flights west of that line are prohibited.
Other air space restrictions for US flights exist over Somalia, and now, the Ukraine.
Remember, these restrictions don’t apply to Australian airlines.
“Potentially hostile” regions listed by the FAA include Afghanistan, Congo, the Egypt Sinai Peninsula, Iran, Kenya, Mali, Syria and Yemen.
In terms of what other airlines are doing, Emirates recently stopped flying over parts of Syria as a civil war expanded, while some airlines have curtailed service in Iraq, where violence has escalated between the government and a jihadist militant group.
Last month, a gunman in Pakistan fired on a jetliner that was landing in Peshawar, part of the country’s volatile northwest region, killing a passenger and wounding two other people. Emirates suspended flights to Peshawar, and other carriers cancelled some flights while they reviewed airport security. Two weeks before that, gunmen attacked the country’s busiest airport in Karachi.
Codeshare caution
Also, if you’re wary about ending up on one airline in particular, say Malaysia Airlines, then beware the codeshare.
So what is a codeshare? Many airlines put their name on another airline’s flight so they can say they fly to a certain destination when they actually don’t.
It makes their network appear bigger, and is a mutually beneficial agreement. What it means is that usually you’ll fly on the airline of your choice, until it connected to a partner’s hub (during a stopover), from there you’ll actually end up flying with the other airline.
For example, MH17 was a codeshare flight with KLM Royal Dutch Airlines, so passengers on KLM ended up on the Malaysia Airlines flight. Their flight number KL4103 was also MH17.
Avoid this by keeping an eye out for the words “operated by” on your ticket — that means essentially that you’ll be travelling on a different airline.
Also, you can try Googling your flight number for more information. When Googling “KL4103” a search result shows it’s a codeshare with Malaysia Airlines.
Ultimately, remember that the chances of a similar tragedy as MH17 occurring again are minute.
Just saw on the TV news that Tony Abbott is more measured today in his comments after speaking with Vladimir Putin.
Putin's message to Abbott may have run along these lines.
Putin: Taskforce at Malaysia MH17 crash site not enough, full-scale intl team needed
Published time: July 20, 2014 21:42
Edited time: July 21, 2014 08:51
http://rt.com/news/174268-ukraine-mh17-crash-putin/
The tragic Malaysian MH17 flight crash must not be politicised and the international experts on the scene should be able to carry out their work in complete safety, Russian President Vladimir Putin said.
“There are already representatives of Donetsk and Lugansk working there, as well as representatives of the emergencies ministry of Ukraine and others. But this is not enough,” Putin said officially commenting on the tragic event on Sunday.
“This task force is not enough,” Putin emphasized. “We need more, we need a fully representative group of experts to be working at the site under the guidance of ICAO, the relevant international commission.”
“We must do everything to provide security for the international experts on the site of the tragedy,” Putin stressed, adding that Russia will also do everything in its power to help shift the Ukrainian conflict from a military phase into a political discussion.
“We need to do everything to provide its [ICAO commission’s] safety, to provide the humanitarian corridors necessary for its work,” Putin added.
“In the meantime, nobody should and has no right to use this tragedy to achieve their ‘narrowly selfish’ political goals,” Putin stated.
“We repeatedly called upon all conflicting sides to stop the bloodshed immediately and sit down at the negotiating table,” the President reminded. “I can say with confidence that if military operations were not resumed on June 28 in eastern Ukraine, this tragedy wouldn’t have happened.”
In the meantime, Russia has introduced its own draft resolution to the UN Security Council calling for an impartial investigation of Malaysia Airlines MH17 crash in Ukraine, Russia’s ambassador to UN Vitaly Churkin said.
‘Yes, we did it,” Churkin told reported answering the question about Russia’s draft. “Just to show what we are talking about. The difference is that in our draft it is absolutely clear it is indeed an impartial international investigation under the under the guidance of ICAO.”
According to the latest figures from the Donetsk authorities, 247 out of 298 bodies have been recovered from the crash site. OSCE confirmed that a train with bodies of the victims is being stationed at a railway station in Torez and is set to depart for Donetsk. The bodies are being kept in especially refrigerated cars.
A team of ISCE experts and four Ukrainian forensics analysts are the only experts who have so far reached the area and are working on the investigation. A team of 12 Malaysian experts is yet to arrive at the crash site. Experts from other European nations, including the Netherlands, France. Germany and the UK are en route to Donetsk.
Putin's message to Abbott may have run along these lines.
Putin: Taskforce at Malaysia MH17 crash site not enough, full-scale intl team needed
Published time: July 20, 2014 21:42
Edited time: July 21, 2014 08:51
http://rt.com/news/174268-ukraine-mh17-crash-putin/
The tragic Malaysian MH17 flight crash must not be politicised and the international experts on the scene should be able to carry out their work in complete safety, Russian President Vladimir Putin said.
“There are already representatives of Donetsk and Lugansk working there, as well as representatives of the emergencies ministry of Ukraine and others. But this is not enough,” Putin said officially commenting on the tragic event on Sunday.
“This task force is not enough,” Putin emphasized. “We need more, we need a fully representative group of experts to be working at the site under the guidance of ICAO, the relevant international commission.”
“We must do everything to provide security for the international experts on the site of the tragedy,” Putin stressed, adding that Russia will also do everything in its power to help shift the Ukrainian conflict from a military phase into a political discussion.
“We need to do everything to provide its [ICAO commission’s] safety, to provide the humanitarian corridors necessary for its work,” Putin added.
“In the meantime, nobody should and has no right to use this tragedy to achieve their ‘narrowly selfish’ political goals,” Putin stated.
“We repeatedly called upon all conflicting sides to stop the bloodshed immediately and sit down at the negotiating table,” the President reminded. “I can say with confidence that if military operations were not resumed on June 28 in eastern Ukraine, this tragedy wouldn’t have happened.”
In the meantime, Russia has introduced its own draft resolution to the UN Security Council calling for an impartial investigation of Malaysia Airlines MH17 crash in Ukraine, Russia’s ambassador to UN Vitaly Churkin said.
‘Yes, we did it,” Churkin told reported answering the question about Russia’s draft. “Just to show what we are talking about. The difference is that in our draft it is absolutely clear it is indeed an impartial international investigation under the under the guidance of ICAO.”
According to the latest figures from the Donetsk authorities, 247 out of 298 bodies have been recovered from the crash site. OSCE confirmed that a train with bodies of the victims is being stationed at a railway station in Torez and is set to depart for Donetsk. The bodies are being kept in especially refrigerated cars.
A team of ISCE experts and four Ukrainian forensics analysts are the only experts who have so far reached the area and are working on the investigation. A team of 12 Malaysian experts is yet to arrive at the crash site. Experts from other European nations, including the Netherlands, France. Germany and the UK are en route to Donetsk.
Phantom said:
Honestly you can say want you have said in about six lines instead of 20 - fluff. The fact of the matter is the Ukraine, whilst it has these weapons, none were in the area. That leaves the seperatists who are backed by Russia. There is strong evidence of this. In fact since the vehicle was taken back over into Russian territory you can guess who was behind it. Putin is a very very dangerous man in this world. I certainly hope he never has the opportunity to step foot into our country.
- Status