What the hell happened to Malaysian flight 370? | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
  • IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.

What the hell happened to Malaysian flight 370?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Here's another view.

Malaysia Airlines disaster in Ukraine: What are the theories?
July 18, 2014 Nikolai Litovkin, RBTH
http://rbth.com/international/2014/07/18/malaysia_airlines_disaster_in_ukraine_what_are_the_theories_38339.html

A Boeing 777 traveling from Amsterdam to Kuala-Lumpur crashed in south-eastern Ukraine on Thursday, July 17. According to the mass media, contact with the flight was lost 30 miles from the Russian-Ukrainian border, near the town of Shakhtarsk in the Donetsk Region, an area controlled by pro-autonomy militias. Despite the lack of verifiable information at this stage, the various sides have already begun to place the blame and put forward their scenarios for the disaster.

Donetsk militia: We do not possess such weapons

The authorities of the unrecognized People's Republic of Donetsk have denied any involvement in the crash of the Malaysia Airlines plane. "The militias do not have weapons that are capable of shooting down a plane at an altitude of 10 kilometers [33,000 feet]. We have portable anti-aircraft missile systems that can shoot down aircraft at a maximum of 3-4 kilometers [10,000-13,000 feet]," announced Sergei Kavtaradze, representative of the Donetsk Prime Minister, blaming the plane crash on the Ukrainian Army.

Kiev: This is a terrorist act

Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko has labeled the crash a terrorist act, according to his press secretary Svyatoslav Tsegolko. "Poroshenko on downed plane: This is not an accident, not a catastrophe, but a terrorist act," wrote Tsegolko in his Twitter microblog.

"The Ukrainian president's administration has announced that the airplane could have been shot down from Russian territory and emphasized that government forces did not carry out any activities related to the shooting down of aircraft in the area of the crash," he continued. In a statement released by Poroshenko’s press office, the Ukrainian president accused Russia of supplying “military personnel and state of the art weapons” to the pro-autonomy miltias in the east of Ukraine and made it clear that he saw the hand of Moscow behind the incident.

“Following the effective operations of the Ukrainian Army, the mercenaries and their ‘big brother’ are resorting to the use of unconcealed military action against our state with increasing frequency and brazenness,” said Poroshenko. “Today the whole world has seen the true face of the aggressor. Shooting down a peaceful aircraft is an act of international terrorism directed against the entire world.”

Moscow: Kiev must take responsibility

According to a statement by Russian President Vladimir Putin, Ukraine bears responsibility, but not as the party who pushed the button, but for permitting civilian flights over a war zone. “I would like to note that this tragedy would not have occurred if there were peace in that country, or in any case, if hostilities had not resumed in south-eastern Ukraine,”

Putin told his assembled advisers after observing a moment of silence for the flight’s passengers, reported RIV Novosti. “And certainly, the government over whose territory it occurred is responsible for this terrible tragedy,” the Russian president added. “The head of the Russian state emphasized that the tragedy that occurred once again confirms the necessity of a quick peaceful settlement to the acute crisis in Ukraine and said that all of the circumstances around the aircraft disaster need to be investigated carefully and objectively,” the Kremlin’s press service said, according to RIA Novosti.

The significance of the BUK anti-aircraft missile system

A lot of debate has revolved around the particular kind of anti-aircraft weaponry used to bring down the airliner. Ukrainian Foreign Ministry advisor Anton Geraschenko has said on his Facebook account that the plane was shot down by a BUK anti-aircraft missile system, which many observers are claiming may have been one that was captured by militias in the Donetsk Region in late June. However, Ukraine's Prosecutor General Vitaly Yarema, in an interview with the Ukrayinska Pravda online newspaper, said that to his knowledge the militias in the self-proclaimed People's Republics of Donetsk and Lugansk do not have the BUK or S-300 anti-aircraft missiles at their disposal. "After the shooting down of the passenger airplane, the military informed the president that the terrorists do not have our BUK and S-300 missile systems," said the Prosecutor General. "These weapons were not captured."

Meanwhile, Russia's Defense Ministry has announced that on July 17 Russian radio technical devices recorded the activity of the 9c18 radar station of a BUK-M1 anti-aircraft missile system battery, which was deployed in the vicinity of the settlement of Styl, 19 miles south of Donetsk. The ministry said that the BUK M-1 anti-aircraft system's technical specifics permit the exchange of information on air targets among batteries from the same division. The Russian Defense Ministry emphasized that the missile, therefore, could have been launched from all batteries deployed in the settlement of Avdeevka (5 miles north of Donetsk) or in Gruzko-Zoryanske (15 miles east of Donetsk).

"The Russian army does not have the BUK-M1 anti-aircraft missile systems, which the mass media say were used and whose photographs are being actively published,” said Russian army colonel and independent military expert Viktor Litovkin. “Our army is armed with the BUK-M2 anti-aircraft missile systems, which even someone unversed in military affairs can distinguish from the BUK-M1.

Actually, it is Ukraine that has the BUK-M1 missiles." He noted that the BUK-M2s can be found on the Russian-Ukrainian border. However, the plane was shot down at a significant distance from Russia, while the BUK-M2's capacity is limited to 19 miles. "The Boeing 777 fell at a distance of 50 kilometers [31 miles] from our border. And the plane was not destroyed in the air, but glided down almost 100 kilometers before falling. Witnesses saw that it did not break apart in the air, but crashed into the ground," said the expert.

Collision in the air

Russian publication Dni.ru quotes the press office of the self-proclaimed People's Republic of Lugansk as saying that the Boeing 777 could have collided in the air with a Ukrainian SU-25.

"Witnesses saw the Boeing 777 being attacked by the Ukrainian Air Force jet, after which the passenger plane broke in two pieces in the air and fell onto the territory of the People's Republic of Donetsk. Currently, a search of the shot-down aircraft is being carried out," writes the publication, quoting the unrecognized republic’s press office.

An individual named ‘Carlos’ who claimed to be Spanish and allegedly works as a dispatcher at Kiev’s Borispol Airport, wrote on his Twitter account that two Ukrainian Air Force planes were spotted next to the airliner a few minutes before the crash. "The military planes were flying next to the 777 three minutes before it disappeared from the radar, only three minutes," wrote the man on his Twitter account. "When the Boeing disappeared from the radar, the Kiev government told us that it crashed. How could they have known so soon?" The account of ‘Carlos’ was later cancelled, though the cached version can be seen here.

Source: Russia Beyond the Headlines - http://rbth.com/international/2014/07/18/malaysia_airlines_disaster_in_ukraine_what_are_the_theories_38339.html)
 
Tommy H said:
There is strong evidence of this. In fact since the vehicle was taken back over into Russian territory you can guess who was behind it.

Not so sure there is strong evidence for this.

All we saw on the TV was a 3 second clip of a vehicle travelling along a road, with a journalists claim that the Ukrainians had reported that this was the vehicle.

Don't know about you, but I've seen enough episodes of 'Drop the Dead Donkey' and 'Frontline' to be sceptical about such reports.

Anyone remember the 'Drop the Dead Donkey' episode on the 1st Iraqi War. The episode where the journalists had a dozen prisoners walking around in a circle, then claiming it was a long line of thousands of prisoners.

Are these the same reports from the same journalists that we've seen on our screens looting the remains of the victims?
 
You have to be a fool dont you. Do you know about where that story originates? Source: Russia Beyond the Headlines. Google Russian beyond the headlines. You are a absolute joke. Maybe do so more balanced posting in future.


http://voiceofrussia.com/by_author/241262325/
 
h that wasn't directed at anyone in particular. I just enjoyed Disco08's take on conspiracies.
 
Tommy H said:
You have to be a fool dont you. Do you know about where that story originates? Source: Russia Beyond the Headlines. Google Russian beyond the headlines. You are a absolute joke. Maybe do so more balanced posting in future.

I know exactly where it comes from.

I read it, RT, the Washington Post, The New York Times, BBC News, Al Jazeerah English, DW.DE, amongst many other web publications.
Some of us look to see the views of all sides before passing judgement.

Are you not interested in hearing from the other side?

It is only fools like you that read only one side of a story!
Maybe you'd be very happy to see this incident escalate into something much bigger?

As said earlier in this thread, we believed the western press during the 1st Gulf War.
We still believed it during 9/11 and the start of the 2nd Gulf War.
Then we learnt that "Weapons of mass destruction" was a lie and a fraud.

Today, I tend to be far more sceptical from what comes out of the western press, and from the mouths of US Republican Senators.
I won't be taken in again.
 
From all I have read from different media outlets around the place/countries & theories I'm incline to think the pro-russian activists hit the plane in error. Imo I don't believe Russia were behind it but are probably disgusted behind the scenes these guys did it. These same people control the area still. Many groups would welcome investigators immediately to the crash site to show where the blame lies to prove the other side did it. But by not letting people to investigate properly for days gives time to hide possible evidence against them. I am suspicious of this. I dont believe Putin would stoop as low to orchestrate an attack like this that would affect the world community and be political suicide.

I pity the poor families, also MA airways again in something as random as this. It could have been any of the other airlines. Some blame (indirectly) should be given to Ukraine too for allowing planes to fly through an uncontroled airspace in a war zone especially from what I have read of some/one of their military planes had been shot down recently too.

Many countries have "sponsored" others in ways that will help achieve their cause as the Russians have with these activists. Off memory USA helped Bin Laden till things went soar. China's & Russia's involvement in the Vietnam war vs USA & allies as well. It has happened in the past and will continue in the future.

I hate politics in general, the facts of what truly happened will probably be smudged/distorted by many including the media and those directly involved.

Maybe Putin does have all the answer, furious too and is trying to mitigate things in a way to distance himself. He could find the few involved as a sacrifice, bring them to justice and gain much more on the international world community and serve more to his "peaceful" resolution to the Ukraine crisis. Maybe even protray them as drunken rogues that made a horrendous mistake.
 
Phantom said:
I know exactly where it comes from.

I read it, RT, the Washington Post, The New York Times, BBC News, Al Jazeerah English, DW.DE, amongst many other web publications.
Some of us look to see the views of all sides before passing judgement.

It is only fools like you that read only one side of a story!
Maybe you'd be very happy to see this incident escalate into something much bigger?


What a laugh. It comes from one site - the site that you referenced in your post Phantom. Treading water much? Fluff on mate. The facts are out there and much of the world know what happened except for people like you. Did I mention anything esculate into anything much bigger? Don't put words into my mouth.
 
Al Bundy said:
From all I have read from different media outlets around the place & theories I'm incline to think the pro-russian activists hit the plane in error. Imo I don't believe Russia were behind it but are probably disgusted behind the scenes these guys did it.

That's my take on it as well. Rocket launchers supplied by the Russians and the personnel trained by them as well. But there there isn't much to suggest that the russians wanted to bring down a civilian plane, or stood by and let it happen before the fact. It serves no purpose and if anything causes them a lot more angst.
 
Baloo said:
That's my take on it as well. Rocket launchers supplied by the Russians and the personnel trained by them as well. But there there isn't much to suggest that the russians wanted to bring down a civilian plane, or stood by and let it happen before the fact. It serves no purpose and if anything causes them a lot more angst.

yep.. in summary, spot on
 
Al Bundy said:
From all I have read from different media outlets around the place/countries & theories I'm incline to think the pro-russian activists hit the plane in error. Imo I don't believe Russia were behind it but are probably disgusted behind the scenes these guys did it. These same people control the area still. Many groups would welcome investigators immediately to the crash site to show where the blame lies to prove the other side did it. But by not letting people to investigate properly for days gives time to hide possible evidence against them. I am suspicious of this. I dont believe Putin would stoop as low to orchestrate an attack like this that would affect the world community and be political suicide.

I pity the poor families, also MA airways again in something as random as this. It could have been any of the other airlines. Some blame (indirectly) should be given to Ukraine too for allowing planes to fly through an uncontroled airspace in a war zone especially from what I have read of some/one of their military planes had been shot down recently too.

Many countries have "sponsored" others in ways that will help achieve their cause as the Russians have with these activists. Off memory USA helped Bin Laden till things went soar. China's & Russia's involvement in the Vietnam war vs USA & allies as well. It has happened in the past and will continue in the future.

I hate politics in general, the facts of what truly happened will probably be smudged/distorted by many including the media and those directly involved.

Maybe Putin does have all the answer, furious too and is trying to mitigate things in a way to distance himself. He could find the few involved as a sacrifice, bring them to justice and gain much more on the international world community and serve more to his "peaceful" resolution to the Ukraine crisis. Maybe even protray them as drunken rogues that made a horrendous mistake.


Putin and Russia have funded these obnoxious imbeciles. I can't see him bringing anyone to justice.
 
To protect myself from imbeciles like Tommy H, please find a list of web media I have referred to in this thread.

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014/07/18/black-box-found-mh17-crash-site

http://www.theage.com.au/business/aviation/ukraine-responsible-for-airspace-safety-iata-20140720-zuzmp.html

http://www.vox.com/2014/7/18/5914139/ukrainian-rebels-shot-down-two-planes-in-the-last-month

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/which-airlines-fly-over-ukraine-how-can-you-find-out-your-flight-route/story-fnizu68q-1226996428536

http://rt.com/news/174268-ukraine-mh17-crash-putin/

http://rbth.com/international/2014/07/18/malaysia_airlines_disaster_in_ukraine_what_are_the_theories_38339.html

So, I have used 6 different sources providing a range of arguments, including SBS, The Age, News Limited.
Only the last 2 sources are Russian sources, which I have clearly credited in each post.

Let's find out the results of an independent inquiry before blaming anyone.

Tommy H, you're the only imbecile in the room!
 
Tommy H said:
Putin and Russia have funded these obnoxious imbeciles. I can't see him bringing anyone to justice.

True, from what I have read they certainly are obnoxious imbeciles as you put it, proven by how they have treated people trying to get to, or at the site.

Putin/Russia are not stupid with the world community eyes on them it shall be interesting to see how it pans out and what transpires. Your views could be right, time will tell.
 
Intersting developements for today.

Putin speaks, seeking for a hopeful peaceful resolution.

http://www.theage.com.au/world/vladimir-putin-breaks-silence-on-mh17-crash-lets-not-politicise-this-tragedy-he-says-20140721-zva75.html
 
Russia certainly would not have meant for this to happen, but they are no less culpable for it.

The issue is now the facilitation of para-military groups by nations with vested interests.

A massive issue in today's geopolitical landscape, where countries are all too content to hide behind paid mercenaries.

There needs to be much tougher international sanctions that can hit the mother country if such links can be proven in a court of law.

Of course the reality is that Russia doesn't give two *smile* and the gas keeps flowing to feeble Europe.
 
Tommy H said:
What a laugh. It comes from one site - the site that you referenced in your post Phantom. Treading water much? Fluff on mate. The facts are out there and much of the world know what happened except for people like you. Did I mention anything esculate into anything much bigger? Don't put words into my mouth.

Phantom won't admit when he's wrong. He'll just waffle and try to play the obscure "shades of grey" line.

The intercepted phone calls and the deleted tweets from the pro-Russian separatists make it very clearly that they did it, they thought it was a Ukranian military plane, and they are now desperately trying to cover it up.

And yes Phantom, Russia Beyond the Headlines is funded by the Russian government.
 
Carter said:
Russia certainly would not have meant for this to happen, but they are no less culpable for it.

The issue is now the facilitation of para-military groups by nations with vested interests.

A massive issue in today's geopolitical landscape, where countries are all too content to hide behind paid mercenaries.

There needs to be much tougher international sanctions that can hit the mother country if such links can be proven in a court of law.

Of course the reality is that Russia doesn't give two sh!ts and the gas keeps flowing to feeble Europe.

agree. Russia *smile* up but it's not gonna change things. collateral damage just like Israel bombing homes and hospitals. There are bigger pieces on the chess board and unfortunately innocent people like us will be sacrificed during the game.
 
Harry said:
. collateral damage just like Israel bombing homes and hospitals.

Hmmm. Israel is a pretty soft target in some parts. Not sure if this comment is accurate given some of the recent actions by Hamas.
 
MH4 just flew over Syria with those ISIS terrorists in a civil war. Bloody hell....can't MAS find a more southern route to Europe & UK?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.