What the !$#$# | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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What the !$#$#

Rampaging_Richo

Making the easy seem incredible
Dec 19, 2002
1,167
0
Melbourne
Froars, I don't assume Ty to be guilty, but experience and logic tells me that why he may not have committed a crime, he may have contributed to his own downfall. If they caught the guy, he version of events will come out.

As I said, going to a nightclub is NOT THE ONLY ENTERTAINMENT AVAILABLE TO AFL FOOTBALLERS. There is plenty they can do, that will keep them out of that environment where trouble can find them, even if they aren't inviting it.

Are they all that stupid??? Grow up, and realise that they are in the public eye and will constantly come under scrutiny. Owning pubs and cafes/bars is completely incidental to all this.
 

Dean3

Older than I've ever been
Dec 17, 2002
2,954
0
Melbourne
I don't think I made it clear what I meant MC24 - I wasn't saying that I wouldn't want them to play AFL footy beacuse they might get snotted at a nightclub. I'm much more concerned about them believing the publicity that surrounds AFL footballers and thus becoming one of the arrogant men that many of them apparently are. It was a comment about what they might become as people, not what might happen to them in a nightclub.
 

froars

"Famous last words - I'll be good"
Dec 17, 2002
165
3
Melbourne
You say this is becoming out of hand - i am really surprised there is not more incidents. If I was a footballer these days and i had the world feting me every time i went out somewhere - like free drink cards, casinos and stuff handing out freebies, girls all over me, television shows, being recognised everywhere i went, having more money than most twenty-odd years olds would earn in 6 years - whatever - you'd have to be pretty well adjusted not to get caught up in it all. And I'm leaving Ty out of this becuase he has been found guilty of nothing YET - just AFL players in general.

It comes back to the club to make sure they have a balance, but to engender into them that if they play up they will suffer because of it. Richmond tried to do it - and that came from the players themselves voting for a player to be stood down for a week (I think - can't remember which one it was now), so that is a start i think.
 

Tigerblood

Tiger Matchwinner
Dec 18, 2002
845
31
Ty Zantuck is merely exhibiting the type of personality upon which our whole 60s-70s era was based - arrogant, dirty, (talented) backstreet brawlers. I reckon we need a few more of his sort. Save this sanctimonious claptrap for Sunday school. He'll be busting heads in a Grand Final one day when all the pretty boys have gone missing.

Get angry Ty. Grow your hair. Get a tat. Have a beer. About time someone started showing some mongrel around here.
 

julzqld

Do or do not - there is no try!
Dec 17, 2002
937
0
Palm Beach, Queensland
Whether Ty deserved to get king-hit can be debated till the cows come home. What I want to know: were there any charges made against the person who king-hit Ty?
 

mightytiges

The greatest Tiger of them all - Jack Dyer R.I.P.
Dec 16, 2002
1,195
0
All this stuff - Carey, night club bust-ups, plyers geeting tanked etc etc - depresses me no end. The game in general has a BIG problem, not just Richmond. Players from all clubs are constantly getting themselves into trouble just by being there, let alone getting pi$$ed.

Obviously the money they get paid is giving them an inflated view of themselves, together with the ridiculous adulation that follows them everywhere, not to mention media coverage. To me, it's the Wacko Jacko syndrome in microcosm - too much money and too much attention at too young an age = arrogant blokes detached from reality.

The price of fame Dean. Agree it happens at all clubs. Maybe hushed up at some more than others. Most footballers have a huge ego.
You can add to your description the slime that suffer from tall poppy syndrome. After consuming a slab or two they see someone famous walk in and think to themselves "he's not so tough, I could take him out". As froars said we don't know what happened. Ty could have been minding his own business when as he was leaving some drunken wanabee came up to Ty and started harassing him. Ty might of said "eff off" and kept walking outside then got clobbered from behind. All we know so far is that Ty was a victtim. We should be supporting him until told otherwise.

I think all clubs and especially players need to realise that playing AFL football means your anomynity disappears and you are vunerable to unwanted attention in public situations. Just because your mates can go to these places you can't. Unfiar yes but that's sadly the price of fame.

I've got two boys just starting out playing footy - both talented - and I really don't know whether I'd want them to reach the top level in their sport, if that's what may happen to them.

There are plenty of people with inflated egos in all professions Dean not just footy. Just try to bring them up with a level head and have respect for themselves and other people. Footy is just a game and especially at their age it should be just about having fun. :)
 

tro-boy

Get in my belly
Dec 18, 2002
108
0
Melbourne
www.austinpowers.com
Before we go around saying it is unfair that Ty cant attend nightclubs because of the tall poppy syndrome, consider that he is a 20 year old earning around $80K a year.

At 20 years old, I was at Uni earning $100 a week working at a bottle shop. Tradeoff was that I could attend nightclubs.

Life is about tradeoffs
 

TigersGoddess

Sing it Loud
Dec 17, 2002
2,915
1
Punt Road Oval
I'm sure the club after each incident have spoken to all of the players and told them it's not acceptable. What more can they do? The club can't tell the players that they can't go out. So what if he went to a night club sure there may be other places for the players to go but it's their choice. We're going to tell the players they can't go into night clubs because they might get into a fight? They're young males they're going to go to night clubs and pubs and places like that it's having a social life.

Stuff like this happens every night, it's only because that they're football players that we hear about it and things like what happened to Ty probably only happen because their footballers. What can they do go out with bags on their heads?
 

MC24

Tiger Superstar
Jan 14, 2003
1,147
0
As well as rewards, there are also sacrifices for being an AFL footballer. But it seems that some of our players aren't prepared to make any sort of sacrifice. Not for their team, their teammates or even themselves.

We have players who are easily led, unaware of what's going on around them, are more interested in having a good time, without any consideration for the consequences of their actions, or just think that their actions are of no consequence to anyone, because they are just a small fish in a big pond.

All this really explains why we never improve as a team. And as long as we have individuals at our Club whose focus is on having "a good time", rather than getting the best out of themselves, then we can only expect the results we have produced on the field in the past.

While some of our players continue to have this "individual" attitude then we can never hope to become a good team.

This is why in the "big" games we get smashed. Because of our 'stuffed' attitude. When the tough get going, we become individuals. The good teams have the 'smarts', we haven't. They have it instilled in them and this is what needs to change if we hope to get anywhere near being a good team.
 

froars

"Famous last words - I'll be good"
Dec 17, 2002
165
3
Melbourne
How do you know they're not motivated? When you cast aspersions like that you sound like you're doing it to the whole team. Name the players who aren't motivated please.
 

MC24

Tiger Superstar
Jan 14, 2003
1,147
0
What I'm saying is that, all of these incidents lead me to the conclusion that our players do not understand what being part of a team is all about. To become a good team requires commitment and sacrifice from the whole team, not just a few individuals. The fact that we have so many of these incidents is a sign that the "team" aspects of the game have not been instilled into them.

I'm not about to accuse any individual of anything. Because, to me, the ultimate responsibility is with the Club. And it is up to them to instill the team philosophies into the players.

These incidents are merely a reflection of the environment that the Club provides.

It is therefore up to them to do something about it, otherwise these incidents will continue to happen. You can't blame the players if, by doing their own thing in their own time, they don't understand the real consequences of their actions until it's too late.

And you can't blame them either, in a game situation, if they go away from the team rules and do their own thing, because they don't understand the real consequences of their actions, or that they will have an impact on the team's results. Unless they already know this, then they have to be taught. And that's all I'm trying to get across.
 

froars

"Famous last words - I'll be good"
Dec 17, 2002
165
3
Melbourne
Yes, ideally, we'd like each and every one of them to act like moral citizens, thinking about nothing else but winning games for the Richmond Football Club 24 hours a day 7 days a week. But unfortunately, they are not computed to do that. They do make mistakes and when you have different personalities involved who can predict what they're going to get up to.

You had the situation a couple of years ago when the club stood a player down for being drunk, and everybody started bagging the club saying it was too harsh a penalty. The club DID try in that situation to instill some discipline but supporters didn't like it. So damned if they do and damned if they don't.

You just have to accept that they are young boys and they will stuff up from time to time. If they continue to be perpetual offenders, just cut them off the list.
 
A

admin

Guest
 If they continue to be perpetual offenders, just cut them off the list.
Of course there is no room for perpetual offenders on the list, but hopefully our discipline policy would prevent that from becoming a problem.

Nothing to do with Ty here, but I am all for players being dropped/fined for breaking the team rules.

I'm glad the players voted in favour of it too.

The guys are young and have to have a life, but as someone said life is about trades.

Because of the nature of AFL when the guys sign a contract they also sign away some of the freedom that we mere mortals take for granted.

They know the rules and should abide by them for the benefit of the club and their team mates.
 

MC24

Tiger Superstar
Jan 14, 2003
1,147
0
Are we actually interested in having the Club move forward here or just happy to continue to live in the mediocrity that has been our existence for 20 years? If so, then we shouldn't look at the Clubs who have achieved success to see the team spirit that exists within their Clubs, compared to ours. Because we're never going to have that, if we're happy with what we've got.

Yes, ideally, we'd like each and every one of them to act like moral citizens, thinking about nothing else but winning games for the Richmond Football Club  24 hours a day 7 days a week.  But unfortunately, they are not computed to do that.  They do make mistakes and when you have different personalities involved who can predict what they're going to get up to.

That is what I am saying. The Club needs to instill that into them. They don't know everything there is to know about being AFL player as soon as they walk in the door, they do need to be taught.

You had the situation a couple of years ago when the club stood a player down for being drunk, and everybody started bagging the club saying it was too harsh a penalty.  The club DID try in that situation to instill some discipline but supporters didn't like it.  So damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Some supporters may not have liked the discipline handed out at that time, I, for one, did. It seems that some people just aren't prepared for short-term sacrifice for long-term gains.

If the Club has a direction and is working to that, then regardless of what others think, they will make the decisions that help them achieve their aims. Does it matter what anybody else thinks?

You just have to accept that they are young boys and they will stuff up from time to time.  If they continue to be perpetual offenders, just cut them off the list.

I don't accept anything. Making excuses for people keeps them where they are. Expecting more and better from them is what has them become great players, instead of just being average footballers. If they don't have the discipline in their social life, how can we expect them to have the discipline to be good footballers and good team players?

We have had no perpetual offenders, they are always one time offenders, so how does anything ever change if we have to wait for someone to be a repeat offender? Doesn't the Club have a responsibility to the players to help them become better people and players? There will always be exceptions to the rule, but hasn't the Club failed if they have to de-list a player for a repeat offence?

And why do we seem to be the only Club that has this going on? It's hardly the sort of thing that goes on at the top Clubs.
 

diggler

The Tigers Spine
Dec 18, 2002
2,855
5
You are 100% correct MC24. Even a breath of fresh air. Who is responsible for our undisciplined players?
Spud is. Until the club can appoint a coach with real mongrel in him, we will be mediocre.
 

gustiger12

Its Tiger Time
Jan 22, 2003
9,933
2
www.thaigerpics.com
A possible scenario.

Ty is leaving the nightclub as others attempt to enter, in the congestion he bumps a rather inebriated would be attempting to enter the club. Mr would be in his muscle shirt turns on the innocent party and king hits him for being stupid enough to invade his space.

Whether the assailant knew the victim was an AFL footballer or not is irrelevant. What is the victim guilty of here, being in the wrong place at the wrong time?

Many have said there must have been some provocation, but I have seen exactly this scenario unfold many times in the past where the victims has been completely innocent of any wrong doing.

Let me say that I do not know what happened in Ty's case, but lets not hang the guy without a fair trial as FROARS pointed out.

I am sure the club is concerned by these incidents and has put strategies in place to deal with them.

We seem to pale into insignificance at the moment compared to the Adelaide Crows and a certain new recruit.

I am not suggesting those rumours are true either....but.....
 

MC24

Tiger Superstar
Jan 14, 2003
1,147
0
Until the club can appoint a coach with real mongrel in him, we will be mediocre.

We've been through this before Diggler, so I'm not going to go over old ground.

The alternative is that Spud is provided with the support he needs to do the best job he can. People can learn and change. Don't lose hope just yet.

P.S.: Appreciate your comments Diggler.