When is the window bigger 2009 or 2011?

[Bill James]

What I have learnt is Premierships have been won by strict planning, policies and procedures.

I rarely disagree with you mate, but Phantom is right, Hawthorn and Geelong have planned for this, and being close to the Brisbane Lions three peat adventure, it was all about planning and strategies, not culture!

Do we have a culture of planning and strategy. The last minute selection of Cousins suggests not.

 

[tigers_of_old_1980]

I reckon 2011 is a better window as the extra time will allow recent draft picks (eg Hislop, Post, Vickery) and some development players (eg Rance, Putt) some time to fit into the team and work as a cohesive unit.

I believe we are a chance for a tilt at the GF in 2010, and again in 2011 for a premiership.

 

[Juffaricho]

One of the reasons I am optimistic about 2009 centres around what I saw in round 22 this year, admittedly a dead rubber against the wooden spooners. Deledio, Cotchin, White, Jackson, Moore, McGuane and Reivoldt all played like they didn't want the season to end. They were left unsatisfied and I'll bet they are all jumping out of their skins and can't wait for next year. By contrast, Richardson had already switched off mentally and cost himself the Brownlow Medal by missing an opportunity to beat up on a weakened opponent. Round 22 has traditionally been about Mad Monday for Richmond, to the detriment of the club.

This is the culture shift that the club needs. Teams have a great deal to gain by finishing a season off in the right spirit.

I think the reality is you are both right. It is obvious that the planning aspect is cricitical but beyond that you need the RIGHT TYPE of players who can win matches when the 4th qtr comes around. Richmond's best players have not been matchwinners for the past decade. Richo could not be consistently relied upon to win matches in the 4th Qtr, too many brain freezes when the pressure was truly on, neither could Campbell, he was "business class", not "first". Brown was the recruit who we got for that job and it looked good until "SNAP" went the leg. We have a flat out deadset matchwinner coming through this season in D-E-L-I-E-D-I-O. He is "OUR MAN" now. Our "Buckley" with the abililty to turn games late and actually put that oval ball through the two big sticks in the middle. If we are lucky in 2 years we will be writing the same about C-O-T-C-H-I-N. And if we get another, my hopes are pinned on R-I-E-W-O-L-D-T, we will be deadset in the middle of a Premiership window. Richo & Bowden will be nice stories in 2009 if we make finals but the real reason we will win enough games to "actually" get there will be because of young Brett. Deadset primed for a massive season and I expect he will be Voted a Top 10 league player by the end of the season. This guy has the "IT" factor. He will never ever be a Richo.......no one will....but he will win a hell of a lot more games. God, I hope the big fella' can hang around a little while longer to experience the fun though.

 

[the claw]

Strategic planning is critical to success & the AFL in its infinite wisdom has made tanking a legitimate tactic in this process. Hawthorn executed it perfectly, West Coast will reap the benefits within three years.

It may be a blight on the game but the AFL has created an environment that rewarded losing rather than winning. (What sort of sporting body does this?) Its not cheating by the clubs, its gross incompetence by the governing body.

agree and becomes gross incompetence by clubs if they fail to take advantage of the system they are forced to operate in.

i look at geelong in this regard in 2006 they finised 10th ha a top 7 pick and snared selwood.
imo they could not have won the premiership without him he is already imo the premier inside mid in the country. imo a slip down the ladder aquired them the missing piece of the puzzle for premiership success. now we can argue weather geelong tanked in 06 or not but imo they didnt go to hard late in 06.

port adelaide did it this yr halfway thru the season. williams acknowledged they did not have the cattle to make finals or if he did he knew they would be making up numbers.they will reap the benefits of this strategy make no mistake.

my attitude has always been assess where you are at and play sides accordingly.
its like the start of this yr i dont think us a genuine flag threat i think that maybe and its a big maybe we are in a scrap with a lot of other clubs for a finish somwhere around 7th thru 15th. with this in mind i would be selecting sides all your with a heavy lean towards getting games into as many kids as possible. if we miss the 8 because of this so be it. if we make the 8 inspite of this its a bonus.

we all know this wont happen because of poor strategies in the past wallace is coaching for his life and as such development will to a large degree go out the window.

finally people talk about culture. you gain culture from winning hence people call it winning culture. to win you have to have the right cattle and just importantly the right strategies in place to aquire in the first place the cattle and secondly to maintain the cattle once you do have them.
. you use richo as an excuse of culture, iwas under the impression that richo carried injury into the melb game typical of our culture if you like we played him instead of giving a kid a go.i see this sort of thing happen all the time there is a cost in doing it.

 

[the claw]

The point that I am making is that successful clubs have a different culture about them than the one that Richmond have.

Most premierships are won by habitual finalists.

They go into the season expecting to be playing in September, not hoping to be. They win tight games because they are used to winning them, it is not a novelty to get up for a big game here and there. Their players are experienced finals campaigners, not September tourists like RFC were in 1995 and 2001. The point is that they having a winner's culture.

Sydney, WC, Essendon, Port Adelaide and Brisbane have all won premierships this decade by simply being at the pointy end each and every year. Collingwood made two GFs in the same way. Geelong are the same, they have only missed finals once on the last few years. Hawthorn is the only example of an "engineered" premiership and they got lucky this year with Geelong having a meltdown on GF day, probably through over-confidence.

RFC had this culture once. Somewhere between Kevin Sheedy leaving and Save our skins they lost it. They need to get it back by playing regular finals and that is where the planning part comes in, all the points that you make about planning are well-taken. Just don't forget that every team is planning to win a premiership. Despite all this planning, most don't succeed. Flags look after themselves if you can front up regularly in September.

hawthorn went from 02 03 04 05 06 before they made finals where was the culture you talk about in these yrs. they made finals simply because they put the right strategies in placeculture had nothing to do with it.

 

[shamekha]

i think what is another important aspect of a team is personality types in the team. Sheedy was one,who would keep players on the list just because they brought a positive vibe to the team. Clubman are very important and i think 'some people miss this.

Richmond for far to long has been known as a team of boring personalities, now we seem to be getting these extroverts that you need in a team N Brown, Jumpin Jack etc

Can only be good

 

[CarnTheTiges]

What we need to focus on is making the finals this year and then playing in them consistently with the view to winning it in 2011 or 2012. If the club has recruited correctly then they'll have the right type of players to replace the aging ones that will retire in between now and 2011/12.

 

[pahoffm]

In regards to culture, it is an extremely important factor.

But, again, it is one of the elements that you plan for.
As I posted earlier, you do that by:
1. Developing leaders with the "right" set of values for the team & club.
2. Everyone becomes subject to team rules, both on & off the field.
3. You pick the "right" types of players that will add to the club both in football talent and as examples to others.

At Richmond, over the last few years, a strong leadership group has slowly developed.
Not only is there a strong coaching department but strong emphasis has been put into junior development with Craig McRae & Dr Jeff Bond taking an important lead.

Also, the building of a very strong recruiting & list management department has seen us eventually get the "right" types of players.

Personally, I commend:
1. The Board on their strength of purpose over the last few years.
2. Steve Wright & Greg Miller, since 2004, for building a much improved off-field football infrastructure.
3. Francis & Craig for developing a strong recruiting & list management ethos & system.

Whether we get there in 2009, 2010, 2011 or whenever, I believe that when we get there, we'll have all bases covered.