Who are we supporting to win the flag now we are out? | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Who are we supporting to win the flag now we are out?

Now we are out who do we support now to win the flag

  • Geelong

    Votes: 4 2.3%
  • Melbourne

    Votes: 2 1.1%
  • Sydney

    Votes: 66 37.5%
  • Collingwood

    Votes: 3 1.7%
  • Fremantle

    Votes: 27 15.3%
  • Brisbane

    Votes: 1 0.6%
  • Bulldogs

    Votes: 5 2.8%
  • The team playing Geelong

    Votes: 68 38.6%

  • Total voters
    176

The Big Richo

Tiger Champion
Aug 19, 2010
3,154
5,024
The home of Dusty
Yet you seem to diminish Dimma's achievement of winning three flags in comparison to Scott's one flag. Bizarre.

When did I do that? I just said winning a premiership is a great achievement, winning three is monumental.

Where we differ though is I don't believe premierships are much of a measure of the quality of a player or coach, they are too reliant on factors out of your control.

Like if Hardwick doesn't have Dustin, he probably doesn't have three flags, or even a flag. If Scott has Dustin he probably has four flags and is going for a fifth. It doesn't change one thing about their coaching ability, it's just the luck of the draw.

In the same way I don't care if Tom Lynch wins 5 flags, he won't ever be a better player than Richo. Or if I wanted to win a game I'd take Ross Lyon over both of them.
 

Ridley

Tiger Legend
Jul 21, 2003
17,828
15,583
Like if Hardwick doesn't have Dustin, he probably doesn't have three flags, or even a flag. If Scott has Dustin he probably has four flags and is going for a fifth. It doesn't change one thing about their coaching ability, it's just the luck of the draw.
What rot. How many flags does Scott have if he doesn't inherit most of Thompson's dual premiership team? No matter what you think AFL football is all about premierships. If Scott wins three he will be lauded as one of the best. Until that happens he can win every home and away game and it won't matter.
 
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TigerForce

Tiger Legend
Apr 26, 2004
71,238
22,155
57
When did I do that? I just said winning a premiership is a great achievement, winning three is monumental.

Where we differ though is I don't believe premierships are much of a measure of the quality of a player or coach, they are too reliant on factors out of your control.

Like if Hardwick doesn't have Dustin, he probably doesn't have three flags, or even a flag. If Scott has Dustin he probably has four flags and is going for a fifth. It doesn't change one thing about their coaching ability, it's just the luck of the draw.

In the same way I don't care if Tom Lynch wins 5 flags, he won't ever be a better player than Richo. Or if I wanted to win a game I'd take Ross Lyon over both of them.
If you want to use Dusty as the factor, Pricky had Ablett and Dangerfield and still zero flag. If he fails again with Cameron, then he's just the Tommy Hafey of the 80s. Great coach but not the best.
 

eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
21,535
26,076
You may wish too rethink that when you hear I am with you.

Geelong's record in making 7 out of 11 prelims or whatever this year will make it is absolutely remarkable, for me it slots right in a rung below the multiple premiership winning sides of the modern era. I also think Chris Scott is clearly the best coach in the competition and doesn't get the credit he deserves and a flag would be fair reward for him.

Omg richo,

When are you getting the vladimir putin hammer and sickle tattoo?

ABG for me.

I hope geelong lose then a meteorite hits scott while hes hugging his brother
 
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Brodders17

Tiger Legend
Mar 21, 2008
17,805
11,980
people are gonna hate me for this but Geelong.

Freo, Dogs and Lions can't win it. Collingwood doesn’t have the talent. Sydney are still 2 years away from their window.

It comes down to Melbourne or Geelong. If Melbourne go back to back they could potentially rival our era. And Geelong probably deserve one after many years of consistency.
*smile* off.
 
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tigersnake

Tear 'em apart
Sep 10, 2003
23,732
12,215
I also think Chris Scott is clearly the best coach in the competition
TBR, look I know this is your schtick, fair enough we need all types, but its the "clearly" part that gets me. Objectively, it is not clear, objectively. You can have an opinion that he's the best, and fair enough, and premise it with "arguably" and cite some facts to back it up, H&A W/L being the obvious one, consistent finals the other, but "clearly" is just taking the *smile*. Ludicrous in fact.
 
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Brodders17

Tiger Legend
Mar 21, 2008
17,805
11,980
Secondly the home ground thing. The bloke has the best home and away record of all time in terms of winning percentage by coaches with over 100 games in charge. They don't play every game at home. We are actually witnessing one of the great moments in the history of the game and few people acknowledge it because they don't like the bloke.
Maybe he should go and coach in the premier league. How you could say he is a better coach than Hardwick has me flummuxed. Next you will say Hinkley is too.

ON match day coaching look at the prelim 2019. At half time the Cats are sitting pretty with a nice 3 goal lead. The teams go into the rooms, both coaches do their match day coaching. 2nd half Hardwick's Tigers kick 8 goals, while Scott's Cats kick 2.
Move forward to the 2020 grand final. At half time the Cats are sitting pretty with a inve 2 goal lead, having kept us to 3 goals in the 1st half. The teams go into the rooms, both coaches do their match day coaching. 2nd half Hardwick's Tigers kick 9 goals, while Scott's Cats kick 2.

Richmond sides over recent years are renowned for coming from behind but Hardwick's match day coaching is supposedly a weakness.
 
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deedee

Tiger Matchwinner
Sep 12, 2011
797
865
I admire what Geelong has achived this century but Chris Scott rubs me up the wrong way ( even as a player he did), so for that reason alone I want them to be beaten in the GF, by a point after the siren would be great.
 
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The Big Richo

Tiger Champion
Aug 19, 2010
3,154
5,024
The home of Dusty
TBR, look I know this is your schtick, fair enough we need all types, but its the "clearly" part that gets me. Objectively, it is not clear, objectively. You can have an opinion that he's the best, and fair enough, and premise it with "arguably" and cite some facts to back it up, H&A W/L being the obvious one, consistent finals the other, but "clearly" is just taking the *smile*. Ludicrous in fact.

I feel like you missed the third word of my post. It's my opinion.

I watch a lot of footy, I feel like I understand the game very well and am well-educated on how AFL is played at the highest level.

Based on that, my opinion is that from the time the ball is bounced until the final siren goes, Chris Scott is clearly the best coach in the competition. By clearly I mean he is well ahead of the coaches who are on the next tier. There's no scoreboard for that so other people will have different opinions.

What rot. How many flags does Scott have if he doesn't inherit most of Thompson's dual premiership team? No matter what you think AFL football is all about premierships. If Scott wins three he will be lauded as one of the best. Until that happens he can win every home and away game and it won't matter.

So your contention is the list of best ever AFL coaches is the same as the list of premiership winners? For example Malcolm Blight is a better coach than Paul Roos or John Longmire? John Worsfold is better than Ross Lyon and so on?

Richmond sides over recent years are renowned for coming from behind but Hardwick's match day coaching is supposedly a weakness.

Here's what I think about Hardwick. Mick Malthouse is a three time premiership coach but he isn't a great match day coach. What Malthouse was exceptional at was working out a way to play that would be successful, educate his players on how to do it and then create a relationship with his players so they would fanatically execute that method without deviation.

On match day his work is essentially done. His plan either works or it doesn't and essentially his coaching when it doesn't is to switch personnel through the same roles and to attempt to draw a greater focus and application out of his players to execute the plan.

To me Hardwick is a very similar coach. He has a unique method that is brilliantly devised and has a relationship with his side where they fanatically execute his method. Again when the chips are down he will tweak personnel within the method and attempt to generate more effort. The wins you talk about to me are a result of the method being executed emphatically until it simply breaks down the opposition.

Both those men are brilliant coaches but to me they are most brilliant for the 165 other hours in the week and less brilliant for the three hours of game time.

Coaches like Chris Scott or Kevin Sheedy operate with a different methodology. They have a fundamental method but are not fanatical about it and put emphasis on manipulating the game during the game via variation in playing style. They attempt to take the opposition strengths away and attempt to progress their chances with a variety of tactics and moves during the game. Scott does that exceptionally well in my eyes and hence I rate him highly in the time from bounce to final siren.
 
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Bill Haverchuck

Tiger Superstar
Jun 27, 2011
1,208
614
Sydney , my mum was an old south supporter(grew up in albert park) so always had a soft spot for them.
Actually i originally supported south as a kid before switching to richmond..

Theres also poor ol freo i guess , not that they have any chance...
 
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Bullarto Tiger

Tiger Legend
Mar 17, 2012
10,043
4,438
If it gets to it, I'll even barrack for Collingwood if it means beating Geelong in the GF ... holy crap!
 
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tigersnake

Tear 'em apart
Sep 10, 2003
23,732
12,215
Chris Scott is clearly the best coach in the competition. By clearly I mean he is well ahead of the coaches who are on the next tier. There's no scoreboard for that so other people will have different opinions.
Yes they do have different opinions, on that I'm in furious agreement. But lets forget that and look at the facts:

Flags Scott 1 Dimma 3

Existing ladder posi when commencing Scott 2 (2010) Dimma 15 (2009) (this obviously impacts the much quoted Scott H&A W/L)

Finals head to head Scott 0 Dimma 3

So there's some facts, not opinion. But accroding to your opinion, in spite of these facts, Scotty is "clearly" the superior coach, in a league of his own above the next tier.

as I said, to suggest IYO Scott is better is fine, to suggest clearly better is Donald Trump-esque whackyland.
 
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The Big Richo

Tiger Champion
Aug 19, 2010
3,154
5,024
The home of Dusty
So there's some facts, not opinion. But accroding to your opinion, in spite of these facts, Scotty is "clearly" the superior coach, in a league of his own above the next tier.

There's a bit of art vs science about this. Unless you manage to put two identical teams on the park I'm not sure there is anyway to measure coaching than by opinion and observation.

I think your measures of flags and which team wins against another team are fundamentally flawed. Coaching is about the impact you have on how good your team is, not if they win or lose. You can be a great coach and lose or a poor coach and win.
 
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