Who do we keep on the list? Chol v Coleman-Jones | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Who do we keep on the list? Chol v Coleman-Jones

Who de we keep on our list?


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    94

agincourt

Tiger Matchwinner
Jun 4, 2004
675
75
Chol.

Gives us a lot more around the ground.

His ruck work is actually pretty good now. Has mobility to impact the contest. Can clunk a grab and kick goals. He has put on a few kilos now.......just needs to realise he's a decent sized unit and can attack the contest with greater intent.
One more preseason focussing on building his tank and he will be a very good player.

CCJ is just Lynch lite. Very one dimensional.
 

No 4

I did what I did for the Tigers - Bridget
Feb 11, 2005
3,573
718
nunawading/mitcham
Chol.

Gives us a lot more around the ground.

His ruck work is actually pretty good now. Has mobility to impact the contest. Can clunk a grab and kick goals. He has put on a few kilos now.......just needs to realise he's a decent sized unit and can attack the contest with greater intent.
One more preseason focussing on building his tank and he will be a very good player.

CCJ is just Lynch lite. Very one dimensional.
I still feel both can be in the team. We need back ups, Will Soldo be back to his best? we will definitely play two ruckmen, and can have a third tall forward.
 
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TigerMasochist

Walks softly carries a big stick.
Jul 13, 2003
21,263
4,680
Does anybody know with 100 percent certainty like put your house on it,if chol is no compo to us or is.
On his current pay or even his probable future contract if he leaves, we'd be extremely lucky to get a fourth round compo selection out of the AFLHQ secret recipe for compo.
 
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momentai

Tiger Champion
Jul 24, 2004
4,130
755
Melb
You see how late they are? I think you seriously undervalue Cerra and over value draft picks.

Based on current points, injuries and the draw, we might start the trade season with picks 12, 16 Geelong, 24 St Kilda, 30, 33 GC, 46 and 64.
First Delist: Houli, Miller and Naish.

As to trades I’d prefer a) Caddy and picks 46 and 64 to Hawthorn for future 3rd.
b) Castagna and pick 33 to Bulldogs for pick 17.
c) Coleman-Jones to GWS for Tom Green.
d) McIntosh and pick 24 to Fremantle for Cerra.
Second Delist: Caddy, Castagna, Coleman-Jones and McIntosh.
So 44-7+Cerra, Green, and picks 12, 16, 17 and 30.
Shouldn’t be a problem really!
 

Razorgang2

Tiger Matchwinner
Mar 15, 2014
595
144
Based on current points, injuries and the draw, we might start the trade season with picks 12, 16 Geelong, 24 St Kilda, 30, 33 GC, 46 and 64.
First Delist: Houli, Miller and Naish.

As to trades I’d prefer a) Caddy and picks 46 and 64 to Hawthorn for future 3rd.
b) Castagna and pick 33 to Bulldogs for pick 17.
c) Coleman-Jones to GWS for Tom Green.
d) McIntosh and pick 24 to Fremantle for Cerra.
Second Delist: Caddy, Castagna, Coleman-Jones and McIntosh.
So 44-7+Cerra, Green, and picks 12, 16, 17 and 30.
Shouldn’t be a problem really!
NFI, but Cholly, just cant trust him atm.
 
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mrposhman

Tiger Legend
Oct 6, 2013
11,693
8,835
Based on current points, injuries and the draw, we might start the trade season with picks 12, 16 Geelong, 24 St Kilda, 30, 33 GC, 46 and 64.
First Delist: Houli, Miller and Naish.

As to trades I’d prefer a) Caddy and picks 46 and 64 to Hawthorn for future 3rd.
b) Castagna and pick 33 to Bulldogs for pick 17.
c) Coleman-Jones to GWS for Tom Green.
d) McIntosh and pick 24 to Fremantle for Cerra.
Second Delist: Caddy, Castagna, Coleman-Jones and McIntosh.
So 44-7+Cerra, Green, and picks 12, 16, 17 and 30.
Shouldn’t be a problem really!

You realise trades are usually at least partially mutually beneficial right? haha. I can only really see the value for the other team in the Caddy example, and even then there isn't really any value for us. If its a salary dump I understand but other than that, its pretty much a pick swap.

Green - we would need to give up more than CJ
Dogs want points, they won't be trading picks for players this year IMO. Best chance of getting Pick 17 is through the previously mentioned pick swaps that favour the Dogs in terms of points.
There is no way Freo do that deal for 2 reasons. 1 Kmac is a FA and they don't need to pay a thing to get him and 2 it undervalues Cerra. Whilst we all see Kmacs value playing in our system, I don't think he would be valued particularly highly outside of the RFC.
 
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Feb 25, 2007
10,315
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Id like to keep both but if one had to be moved on;

Before last weeks game id say CCJ. Chol is more mobile and has a good leap, as the 3rd tall can cause opposition coaches match up headaches, the only knock i have on him is not consistent enough but CCJ could be our next power forward, very good overhead and is hard at the contest.

Samson Ryan if they look at him more so to be a forward and Soldo/Nank/Colina main rucks then CCJ if the right offer was made, (imo we will get a first-rounder for him) the club could do the deal and have 3 first rounders in the back pocket and likely to nab a young mid or 2. Tom Green, Cerra etc (if available)

Not interested in giving first-rounders for 26 years plus years old unless we get that player as a free agent. It's the draft (mini rebuild on the fly) or nab a kid in a trade deal who's 20/21 with a decade of their best footy ahead of them.
 

leon

Tiger Legend
Apr 6, 2014
7,399
2,710
Id like to keep both but if one had to be moved on;

Before last weeks game id say CCJ. Chol is more mobile and has a good leap, as the 3rd tall can cause opposition coaches match up headaches, the only knock i have on him is not consistent enough but CCJ could be our next power forward, very good overhead and is hard at the contest.

Samson Ryan if they look at him more so to be a forward and Soldo/Nank/Colina main rucks then CCJ if the right offer was made, (imo we will get a first-rounder for him) the club could do the deal and have 3 first rounders in the back pocket and likely to nab a young mid or 2. Tom Green, Cerra etc (if available)

Not interested in giving first-rounders for 26 years plus years old unless we get that player as a free agent. It's the draft (mini rebuild on the fly) or nab a kid in a trade deal who's 20/21 with a decade of their best footy ahead of them.
Yes, I'm with you. Found this decision too hard at first an had to go away and think about it, especially since I finally virtually wrote Mabs off after the Colonwood debacle - but luckily I included a qualifier for that performance giving him and out for the injuries he sustained early in that match which may have detracted from his ability to compete. Maybe he was even brave to stay on?
However, delighted with his latest effort against BLs (and rapid recovery).

Ideally I want to keep both. But it's hard to make a choice without knowing a) about whether Soldo will recover fully and b) whether Colina can make the level as an AFL ruckman. What if neither occurs? You have to have doubts about each player, and what club needs or can afford to keep 5 rucks on its list? Many on here were huge skeptics on Soldo for a long time. His main attribute is ... he's BIG and makes a real effort. He's not quick, agile or athletic. Probably the main success was forming an effective partnership with Nank as two tough, dogged competitive rucks of different sizes. He is not a natural or very talented footballer. Will that knee recuperate to successfully carry that huge body-weight for a prolonged career? He doesn't seem to be recovering much at all.

Hate to say it when he is out injured, especially due to that mongrel Shove Hawkins, but I think I'd be fighting very hard to keep both Chol and CCJ for the future and making a tough call on big Ivan. Mabs is actually the most agile and athletic of all our ruckmen with a great natural spring, probably the quickest, best at ground level with excellent hands skills, as well as the best kick. Which comes in handy when he is your 2nd ruck who can spend dangerous periods up forward, adding another tall weapon or allowing Tom/Jack to rest or move up the ground.

Retaining CCJ provides an option to replace JR8 until Nank has had enough, then he should be ready to move into the No.1 ruck role ( he won't be the biggest but has a good leap and strong marking ability, fair mobility). I also believe that Chol can possibly provide a possible JR8 stopgap until we can find and develop our next Tasmanian KPF champion, if he can find his genuine competitiveness consistently as he did this game.

Under this scenario, it gives us a back-up giant in Colina to see if he comes on who might be a Soldo replacement anyway. Just like Ivan, he is a project player that is going to require 2/3 years minimum to step up - if at all. Apologies to Ivan Soldo, love his story of making it successfully at Tigerland, but really hard decisions must be made.

It's all hypothetical anyway because Mabs or CCJ can easily leave for better deals and money. Can only hope the club will make strong offers to keep both and maybe some loyalty and connection to their team-mates might influence them to stay.

I won't enjoy seeing us play an opposing team featuring either over the next 5-10 years. I suppose if we have to select but one, CCJ is ahead due to being younger, maybe more upside and consistency., more capable to develop into Nank No.1 ruck replacement. But I love what Cholly brings.
 
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momentai

Tiger Champion
Jul 24, 2004
4,130
755
Melb
Mabiol is an athletic freak who has benefited from learning a correct kicking technique at a mature age and at a high level, rather than coming in to the AFL, having been repeating poor technique for years.
I remember watching him play his first game for us maybe 6 years ago. He literally had no idea what he was doing and where to position himself, to the extent that Cotch spent a lot of time running with him and telling him where to go.
For a big man he has tremendous skill, instance his palming of the ball from centre hit outs. He still has a lot to learn as a ruckman, but we have Evan and we have a player with speed to burn, who can jump, mark and kick.
Must keep.
 
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momentai

Tiger Champion
Jul 24, 2004
4,130
755
Melb
Don't think we can keep both.
This situation was deliberately engineered by our recruiting staff's decision to select Sam Ryan in last years draft, believing that he could develop and understanding at the same time that we couldn't keep 6 ruckman on the list indefinitely..
One will be traded and if it is CJ, we will be in line for a mid level first or better access to GWS player Tom Green, or possibly Taylor, who Dyer who has an eye, has been pushing up for a while.
 
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leon

Tiger Legend
Apr 6, 2014
7,399
2,710
Don't think we can keep both.
This situation was deliberately engineered by our recruiting staff's decision to select Sam Ryan in last years draft, believing that he could develop and understanding at the same time that we couldn't keep 6 ruckman on the list indefinitely..
One will be traded and if it is CJ, we will be in line for a mid level first or better access to GWS player Tom Green, or possibly Taylor, who Dyer who has an eye, has been pushing up for a while.
Good points. I forgot Ryan so modified comment: what club needs or can afford to keep 6 rucks on its list? Wonder why we even took Ryan really? Best available I suppose, and we seem to want to go taller with Colina picked up too.

But we sure can't keep them all. Tom Green? Yer, an inside bull mid but very slow. Will he actually suit our game? And Dyer has been spruiking the impressive Taylor; good player. However, I think it was former draft doyen Bullus.hit who first talked him up; still sorely missed.
 
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TigerMasochist

Walks softly carries a big stick.
Jul 13, 2003
21,263
4,680
Good points. I forgot Ryan so modified comment: what club needs or can afford to keep 6 rucks on its list? Wonder why we even took Ryan really? Best available I suppose, and we seem to want to go taller with Colina picked up too.
Just a half arsed guess really n no real insight besides trying to think a smidgeon laterally.
Been discussed on PRE plenty of times regarding ruckmen about not picking them with early draft picks but simply watching n waiting till their reasonably matured n developed, then trading for them or stealing as free agents due to lack of game at their existing clubs.

Could it be possible that we've set up some sort of development school for potential rucks with the view of getting decent trades for dodgy rookie picks that become good rucks? Six ruck size players in a list of 40 odd players is massive overs.
Nank was a cheapie trade in who puts in huge performances week in week out, plays wonderful beast mode to support n enhance our mids.
Soldo, category B rookie, premiership player n if not for the mongrel knee injury would be doubling up with the Nankster.
Cholly, late pick n then rookied back in, tantalising n teasing, finally starting to show what his athleticism n ball skills can be worth. Pity he's now a free agent.
Cujo, earlyish pick, but a ruck / forward or forward / ruck depending on how we push his development.
Delilah, late pick n still got three or four years of growth n development to come, but already been thrown in for a look at AFL.
Maaaaate, giant of a man, category B rookie with a basket ball background so who knows what to expect would also need three or four years of development.

None of these players cost us much in recruitment value n apart from Nank on reasonable coin. The rest would be on small change as late picks n developing fringe, yet if they come on to decent players in a few years there could be a valuable market for them.
 
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momentai

Tiger Champion
Jul 24, 2004
4,130
755
Melb
Just a half arsed guess really n no real insight besides trying to think a smidgeon laterally.
Been discussed on PRE plenty of times regarding ruckmen about not picking them with early draft picks but simply watching n waiting till their reasonably matured n developed, then trading for them or stealing as free agents due to lack of game at their existing clubs.

Could it be possible that we've set up some sort of development school for potential rucks with the view of getting decent trades for dodgy rookie picks that become good rucks? Six ruck size players in a list of 40 odd players is massive overs.
Nank was a cheapie trade in who puts in huge performances week in week out, plays wonderful beast mode to support n enhance our mids.
Soldo, category B rookie, premiership player n if not for the mongrel knee injury would be doubling up with the Nankster.
Cholly, late pick n then rookied back in, tantalising n teasing, finally starting to show what his athleticism n ball skills can be worth. Pity he's now a free agent.
Cujo, earlyish pick, but a ruck / forward or forward / ruck depending on how we push his development.
Delilah, late pick n still got three or four years of growth n development to come, but already been thrown in for a look at AFL.
Maaaaate, giant of a man, category B rookie with a basket ball background so who knows what to expect would also need three or four years of development.

None of these players cost us much in recruitment value n apart from Nank on reasonable coin. The rest would be on small change as late picks n developing fringe, yet if they come on to decent players in a few years there could be a valuable market for them.
I wrote similar 6 weeks ago and while suggesting it’s a half arsed guess you spend the rest of your lengthy piece agreeing.
We have a highly respected man coaching our rucks.
And some great planners running our recruiting.
At least one of our 6 will be traded. CJ if he goes, could realise a handy profit.
 

Brodders17

Tiger Legend
Mar 21, 2008
13,391
3,339
Talk of 6 rucks on the list is a little misleading.
CCJ is our No3 tall forward.
Ryan is prob our no 4 (or No 5 behind Chol.)

We dont have any other young tall forwards.
Collina isnt even in the country, and hasnt played a game of football for years.
And Soldo will be coming back from an ACL- recovery almost always involves other injury.

I reckon we would keep them both if we could. But it wont be our choice.
 
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AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
24,277
10,208
Talk of 6 rucks on the list is a little misleading.
CCJ is our No3 tall forward.
Ryan is prob our no 4 (or No 5 behind Chol.)

We dont have any other young tall forwards.
Collina isnt even in the country, and hasnt played a game of football for years.
And Soldo will be coming back from an ACL- recovery almost always involves other injury.

I reckon we would keep them both if we could. But it wont be our choice.

Is CJ contracted Brodders? I know Chol is out of contract this season.