Who is rebuilding again?

[Col.E.Kurtz]

Good stat.  out of interest what did media love children in Hawthorn and Carlton have?

Hawks and Blues both had 9. Hawks still have a very young average age though, they are genuinely youthful, much more so than the WCE team they beat.


If you press the 'stats' link to the games on this website it will show you the age breakdown of each team http://www.footywire.com/

Our average age will go down again if Richo is replaced by Sarge this week, as is likely

 

[Brodders17]

Our average age will go down again if Richo is replaced by Sarge this week, as is likely

woo hooooooo. success is closer.

 

[French Tiger]

With Richo injured for most of the game we only had 1 30+ player (Bowden) on the field, & look what happens

 

[Col.E.Kurtz]

woo hooooooo. success is closer.

Your sarcasm is justified, but it is interesting the next week we will probably put out the second youngest team in the AFL (by several different measures) given the perception of the club externally and internally at the start of the year

 

[Brodders17]

who exactly should have played more games?

Who are these 12 players? – Collins, Nahas, JON, Rance, Polo, Riewoldt, Graham, Morton, McGuane, Moore?, White, Pattison ?

Recruited in 2008
- Nahas (mature aged) he is 21 and hardly a mature player.

Recruited in 2007
- Rance develpoed last year at coburg. one could suggest his impact this year has been bc of it.

Recruited in 2006
- Riewoldt- played 31 out of49. more than any other KP from that draft i would think.
- Collins- he is they have taken their time with. letting his body develop.

Recruited in 2005
- White zade he has played 43 out of 71. has any other PSD from that year played more.
- JON anyone reckon he should have played more??
- Graham? given and needed plenty of time to develop

Recruited in 2004
- McGuane- played 37 out 93. very skinny when drafted. needed time.
- Polo definitely been held back for an unknown reason.
- Morton wasnt played at west coast.
- Pattison played 50odd. more than most talls from that draft.
- Moore ? many injuries held moore back for a long time.

5 players are into their 5th season, 3 players into their 4th season, 2 players into their 3rd season, 1 into his 2nd season and 1 into his 1st AFL season after having a few in the VFL.

The fact that most haven’t played 50 games is more to do with Wallace’s desire for instant success by playing more senior players and neglecting getting games into kids, when we should have been properly rebuilding.

So we are now rebuilding with 22-23 year olds in their 4-5th season of AFL.

others that have played more include lids and bling, edwards-35 out of 49.

 

[the claw]

I think the number of 50 games or less players should be judged across the entire list, rather than just who played in the seniors. We had Jay Schulz, Kayne Pettifer, Kane Johnson, Troy Simmonds, Nathan Brown and Graham Polak either injured or playing for Coburg.

I don't think any of those players will be around when we next make finals.

As for bottoming out, I would class that as being crap for 2 or more seasons, in order to obtain the top draft picks (top 3 picks) in consecutive seasons. (IE In order to obtain the priority pick in the first round at the second draft).

Rebuilding I would class as delisting all of the dud players/old players who aren't going to take you to a premiership, and literally "Rebuilding" the list. You might have to do it over a couple of seasons (most do) or you can try get rid of 15 at once like Freo did (and be absolutely sh!te). A rebuild in my eyes would be pretty much taking youth exclusively, and using your draft picks to rebuild the list.

I don't think we've rebuilt properly. We kinda rebuilt a little, and topped up a little. Paddy Bowden, Kent Kingsley, Graham Polak, Jody McMahon are a few examples of the, each way bet we've had under Wallace.

Tanking I would class as when you know your season is stuffed, so you decide to cycle out all of the players who you plan on delisting in your "rebuild" and playing kids exclusively to fast track their development. Most of the time this will mean you'll have a lot more losses than wins, as the kids get outmuscled by bigger players. If you're kids are good enough to win you games though, you just take it as a fact that your kids are well advanced on where you thought they were. I don't class tanking as deliberately losing a game.

For example, I think Port Adelaide didn't tank last year, neither did West Coast. Both of those clubs deliberately sent senior players who will be around at their next finals tilt for surgery, rested them for games that were winnable and deliberately played their few established players out of position to further weaken their side. It was a smart tactic, as it got them further up the draft order, but I think it crosses the line between constructive list and player development, and match fixing.

Others may differ with my definitions, but that's how I would frame the terms.

very well said general. basically what i think.

3 nd picks in 3 out of 5 drafts means we have never embraced anything under wallace.

disagree on the last bit though. port definately tanked last yr wce prbably didnt lots of injuries at that club. essendon had lots to.

wce have turned over 21 players since 2006 a yr they won a premiership. this does not include rookies.they have traded into picks heavily something they always do. since 2004 they have traded for just one player stenglien. since 2001 they have traded for just 2 players chick and stenglein both yrs are relevant to us. tehnically they traded for josh kennedy but he was forced upon them with the judd deal.

with the loss of cousins and judd the eagles were smart enough to go back down while they had a core still in place. they have targeted just two types in the main. big onballers and talls.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

So we are now rebuilding with 22-23 year olds in their 4-5th season of AFL.

That's pretty much true. But, are ours so much worse than other clubs? 22-23yo's, rounded to the nearest year:

Adelaide: Douglas, Griffin, Knights, Maric, Moran, van Berlo
Brisbane: Adcock, Clouston, Dalziell, Harding, Rischitelli, Sherman, Stiller
Carlton: Armfield, Betts, Hartlett, Jamison, Johnson, Russell, Walker, Warnock
Collingwood: Cloke, Cox, O'Brien, Rusling, Shaw, Toovey, Wood
Essendon: Lonergan, Monfries, Nash, Prismall, Slattery, Stanton
Fremantle: Bradley
Geelong: Taylor
Hawthorn: Bailey, Franklin, Lewis, Murphy, Muston,. Roughead, Young
Melbourne: Buckley, Martin, McLean, Messen, Newton, Sylvia
North Melbourne: Campbell, McMahon, Jesse Smith, Josh Smith, Thompson
Port Adelaide: Chaplin, Pearce, Thomas, Westhoff
Richmond: Deledio, Graham, Hughes, Jackson, McGuane, Morton, Pattison, Polo, Raines, Tambling, Thomson, Thursfield, White
St.Kilda: Begley, Gilbert, Gwilt, McQualter, Ray
Sydney: Barlow, Brabazon, Grundy, Laidlaw, Moore, Schmidt
West Coast: Butler, LeCras, McKinley, Rosa, Spangher, Waters, Wilkes
Western Bulldogs: Griffen, Tiller, Williams

In a couple of years the over-30's will be replaced mainly with kids, to add to the likes of Riewoldt, Cotchin, Rance, Post, Vickery, Putt, Collins, Connors etc. You can argue over the quality or types of these players, but how anyone can say a rebuild isn't already well underway is beyond me.

 

[Harry]

That's pretty much true. But, are ours so much worse than other clubs? 22-23yo's, rounded to the nearest year:

Adelaide: Douglas, Griffin, Knights, Maric, Moran, van Berlo
Brisbane: Adcock, Clouston, Dalziell, Harding, Rischitelli, Sherman, Stiller
Carlton: Armfield, Betts, Hartlett, Jamison, Johnson, Russell, Walker, Warnock
Collingwood: Cloke, Cox, O'Brien, Rusling, Shaw, Toovey, Wood
Essendon: Lonergan, Monfries, Nash, Prismall, Slattery, Stanton
Fremantle: Bradley
Geelong: Taylor
Hawthorn: Bailey, Franklin, Lewis, Murphy, Muston,. Roughead, Young
Melbourne: Buckley, Martin, McLean, Messen, Newton, Sylvia
North Melbourne: Campbell, McMahon, Jesse Smith, Josh Smith, Thompson
Port Adelaide: Chaplin, Pearce, Thomas, Westhoff
Richmond: Deledio, Graham, Hughes, Jackson, McGuane, Morton, Pattison, Polo, Raines, Tambling, Thomson, Thursfield, White
St.Kilda: Begley, Gilbert, Gwilt, McQualter, Ray
Sydney: Barlow, Brabazon, Grundy, Laidlaw, Moore, Schmidt
West Coast: Butler, LeCras, McKinley, Rosa, Spangher, Waters, Wilkes
Western Bulldogs: Griffen, Tiller, Williams

In a couple of years the over-30's will be replaced mainly with kids, to add to the likes of Riewoldt, Cotchin, Rance, Post, Vickery, Putt, Collins, Connors etc. You can argue over the quality or types of these players, but how anyone can say a rebuild isn't already well underway is beyond me.

Not quite sure what you are saying here. Are you saying every other club is also rebuilding? Having this many 23 year olds should be the norm for every club. A club that is rebuilding should have many more 18,19,20 year olds than we've had playing this year. 22/23 year olds should already be established and should make up the core element of you team.


As Claw has indicated we have drafted only 3 kids in 2005, 2007 and 2008, and have topped up with discards from other clubs.

 

[Brodders17]

Not quite sure what you are saying here. Are you saying every other club is also rebuilding? Having this many 23 year olds should be the norm for every club. A club that is rebuilding should have many more 18,19,20 year olds than we've had playing this year. 22/23 year olds should already be established and should make up the core element of you team.


As Claw has indicated we have drafted only 3 kids in 2005, 2007 and 2008, and have topped up with discards from other clubs.

in 1to4to8's list which team has their core made up of 22/23yr olds?
i count us as having 5 regulars. i dont count any other team as having considerably more, or a core element.
i think people underestimate how long it can take most players (discounting your stars-lids,buddy etc) to become established.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Not quite sure what you are saying here.  Are you saying every other club is also rebuilding?  Having this many 23 year olds should be the norm for every club.  A club that is rebuilding should have many more 18,19,20 year olds than we've had playing this year.  22/23 year olds should already be established and should make up the core element of you team. 


As Claw has indicated we have drafted only 3 kids in 2005, 2007 and 2008, and have topped up with discards from other clubs.

The 22-23yo's in the main are not the dominant players at their clubs. They've yet to reach their peak and will (hopefully) go on to form the core of the team in a few years.

The list is slowly getting back into some sort of shape, but where it was once top-heavy with older players, we will soon be short on experience. To load up with kids would've skewed the list in the other direction; in order to draft more kids you have to cut others before they've had a chance to fulfil their potential. It's why we've brought in the likes of Polak, McMahon, Morton & Thomson - to balance the list and avoid becoming too bottom-heavy with youngsters.