will we need to be vaccinated to attend games in 2022

[tigertim]

A guy at work is against getting the jab because he doesn't know what's in it.

On the other hand he regularly eats processed things like Meat Pies , Hot Dogs & Chicken Nuggets for lunch.

Go figure.

Yep, and I’m putting a bounty of $1000 for anyone who can tell me whats in the mystery meat that they put into a souva/kebab. I know cardboard is one ingredient….

 

[DavidSSS]

Most people don't understand what is in the vaccines, which is not totally unreasonable given most people are not medical scientists.

But it doesn't take much to find out.

There is often fear that a vaccine will give you the disease it is vaccinating against, which has no basis for any vaccination as far as I know. There are some where you are injected with a dead version of the disease but the COVID vaccines don't contain COVID, just something which resembles the spike protein so the immune system has a heads up when you are exposed to COVID.

Given all the other sh1t people ingest without any knowledge, vaccine hesitancy makes no sense, but since when does this sort of thing make sense?

DS

 

[tigertime2]

This is the part that gets me.

People reluctant to get vaccinated seem to have this thing about it being potentially risky down the track. Like they will get cancer or grow a second head or suffer birth defects or something down the track because of some unknown gremlin lurking in it.

The reality is vaccines just don't work that way. Apart from the overwhelmingly small chances of serious adverse reactions there is no risk of any sort of long term impact from a vaccine.

It is not a good argument to mount that you wont take it because you don't know what is in it.
The argument they make is that Graphene is in the vaccination and somehow the 5g towers are going to activate these graphene molecules to form a microchip. Well that is just insane. The Graphene is in the vaccine because it has antiviral properties.

I really wish people would stop saying there is no risk of any long term impact to the vaccine. How do you know? The normal process of approval for vaccines is 5 years to show the safety and efficacy of any vaccine. A lot of vaccines are pulled because of adverse reactions, sometimes after they get to the human trials. You can say As far as we know or we don't believe there will be any risk.

Why we petitioned the FDA to refrain from fully approving any covid-19 vaccine this year - The BMJ

We are part of a group of clinicians, scientists, and patient advocates who have lodged a formal “Citizen Petition” with the United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA), asking the [...]More...

blogs.bmj.com

 

[Sammy Cougar]

Roll on Round 1 2022 im double dosed feeling as good as gold

 

[AngryAnt]

I really wish people would stop saying there is no risk of any long term impact to the vaccine. How do you know? The normal process of approval for vaccines is 5 years to show the safety and efficacy of any vaccine. A lot of vaccines are pulled because of adverse reactions, sometimes after they get to the human trials. You can say As far as we know or we don't believe there will be any risk.

Why we petitioned the FDA to refrain from fully approving any covid-19 vaccine this year - The BMJ

We are part of a group of clinicians, scientists, and patient advocates who have lodged a formal “Citizen Petition” with the United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA), asking the [...]More...

blogs.bmj.com

This is a better take than your 80% of people will be asymptomatic and therefore don't need vaccinations, which was probably the most stunningly bad take on vaccination I've ever read, but let's look at this one.

In the entire history of vaccines there has never been one that was found to cause problems that were not detected in the short-term. Vaccines that caused problems were pulled pretty quickly, and those examples are very rare in themselves.

And why would they? Vaccines are a tiny amount of extremely complex organic material that provoke an immune response and are very quickly broken down and absorbed or excreted by the body. Only the memory of a vaccine (in the immune response) remains. Even mRNA vaccines don't alter DNA in our cells, or anything like that.

We've had a huge sample of vaccine users now and the problems - eg blood clots in a tiny percentage - are already manifesting. One of the reasons the standard procedures are five years is because sample sizes are much smaller, so you measure and monitor smaller groups over longer periods. We don't need to do that in this case.

 

[tigertime2]

This is a better take than your 80% of people will be asymptomatic and therefore don't need vaccinations, which was probably the most stunningly bad take on vaccination I've ever read, but let's look at this one.

In the entire history of vaccines there has never been one that was found to cause problems that were not detected in the short-term. Vaccines that caused problems were pulled pretty quickly, and those examples are very rare in themselves.

And why would they? Vaccines are a tiny amount of extremely complex organic material that provoke an immune response and are very quickly broken down and absorbed or excreted by the body. Only the memory of a vaccine (in the immune response) remains. Even mRNA vaccines don't alter DNA in our cells, or anything like that.

We've had a huge sample of vaccine users now and the problems - eg blood clots in a tiny percentage - are already manifesting. One of the reasons the standard procedures are five years is because sample sizes are much smaller, so you measure and monitor smaller groups over longer periods. We don't need to do that in this case.

My point about the 80% is to highlight the fact that there are 80% of the population that will have zero fear of covid illness and death. that is not something that is being discussed...we get too much fear and not enough facts.

This is from John Hopkins University.
"Phase 3 trials may take six to nine months to allow early assessment of safety and efficacy, particularly if conducted in areas with a high risk of infection, but with follow-up continuing for two years or more to assess long-term safety and efficacy."

I am sorry but no one can yet determine the long term safety and efficacy of any of the Vaccines. that is why the Scientists in the article asked for a delay in approvals until next year. It is still to early to guarantee complete safety of any of these vaccines.

I repeat I am not against Vaccination......I am 100% against Vaccine Passports.

 

[DavidSSS]

Yep, the vaccines have been given to millions of people, any problems have quickly been identified.

DS

 

[tommystigers]

What is true is that unvaccinated people are more likely to carriers than vaccinated people.

I've got no problem with rapid testing as an alternative, but the rapid tests are around 15-20 minutes to get a result, so you need testers in full PPE, you need holding and waiting areas etc etc etc. Rapid testing is big logistical exercise if you have a lot of people wanting to do it.

In short, GET VACCINATED

So while the unvaxxed by choice swill are all milling around waiting for their test to come back negative one of them tests positive. What happens then to all those next to the punter? Those that travelled with them to the game?

Nah. Get vaxxed, prove it, or stay at home.

Choice antivaxxers should be treated differently, as if they have the virus. I don’t care about your feels. You don’t care about the rest of us.

Smear ivermectin on your date and chant kumbaya. And stay home. You deserve it.

 

[AngryAnt]

My point about the 80% is to highlight the fact that there are 80% of the population that will have zero fear of covid illness and death. that is not something that is being discussed...we get too much fear and not enough facts.

I'll ask you again - how do you know if you are part of the 80% or part of the 20%?

 

[AngryAnt]

I am sorry but no one can yet determine the long term safety and efficacy of any of the Vaccines. that is why the Scientists in the article asked for a delay in approvals until next year. It is still to early to guarantee complete safety of any of these vaccines.

Sorry, 27 medical practitioners in the US don't convince me to halt giving people vaccines. They have already saved millions of lives. How many more millions would already be dead without vaccines?

The history of vaccines and the huge sample size we already have say that vaccines are pretty damn safe.

You want 100% certainty? You'll never have it.

 

[btoz_01]

Not if we hit double dose 80%.
That money tree has lost all its leaves.

wouldnt bet on it

 

[DavidSSS]

I am sorry but no one can yet determine the long term safety and efficacy of any of the Vaccines. that is why the Scientists in the article asked for a delay in approvals until next year. It is still to early to guarantee complete safety of any of these vaccines.

I repeat I am not against Vaccination......I am 100% against Vaccine Passports.

No-one can yet determine the safety of contracting COVID, are there long term health effects, even on the asymptomatic? Who knows.

The vaccines have proven effectiveness and have been given to millions with very few problems.

I have no problem with vaccination passports, if some choose not to get vaccinated then they have chosen the consequences which go with that decision. This is a highly contagious virus and those who are vaccinated have far less chance of becoming infected (you can't pass it on if you're not infected), the evidence is that vaccinated people who do contract COVID are not as contagious and we know vaccinated people are less likely to get sick enough to require the use of scarce hospital resources. From a public health perspective, letting unvaccinated people into crowded events is simply stupid. We need a way to keep those more likely to spread the virus away from large crowds and vaccine passports are an effective way to do this. It isn't like this is new - I remember travelling to Africa in the 1990s and when I returned to Australia I had to show proof of having had a Yellow Fever vaccination or they would vaccinate me and quarantine me. Of all the people in the world Australians, who live in a country with no TB, no rabies and pile of other diseases we simply don't have, should know the value of vaccines and quarantine.

DS

 

[waiting]

No-one can yet determine the safety of contracting COVID, are there long term health effects, even on the asymptomatic? Who knows.

The vaccines have proven effectiveness and have been given to millions with very few problems.

I have no problem with vaccination passports, if some choose not to get vaccinated then they have chosen the consequences which go with that decision. This is a highly contagious virus and those who are vaccinated have far less chance of becoming infected (you can't pass it on if you're not infected), the evidence is that vaccinated people who do contract COVID are not as contagious and we know vaccinated people are less likely to get sick enough to require the use of scarce hospital resources. From a public health perspective, letting unvaccinated people into crowded events is simply stupid. We need a way to keep those more likely to spread the virus away from large crowds and vaccine passports are an effective way to do this. It isn't like this is new - I remember travelling to Africa in the 1990s and when I returned to Australia I had to show proof of having had a Yellow Fever vaccination or they would vaccinate me and quarantine me. Of all the people in the world Australians, who live in a country with no TB, no rabies and pile of other diseases we simply don't have, should know the value of vaccines and quarantine.

DS

I was against it at the start.
Was against my elderly mum having it. she has had various issues with her health. My sister was against her having it too and we made our feelings known. Her GP suggested it would be better for her if she did.
But mum has had both AZ and she has had no complications.

I had my first 3 months ago and my second one is due next month.

Vaccine ID, Passports identifying if you have been vaccinated is what we will face in the future.

There are no guarantees.

There are companies doing well out of this crisis.

I just want us to live our lives. This is our future. A Covid future where this will be with us in one form or another.

Boosters to guard ourselves. Variants to cause us grief but to be vaccinated and to not live a ‘caged’ existence when other countries have decided to live with COVID is better than the alternative.

I have friends who haven’t and who may not. They have their opinions , their conspiracy theories, the against my liberty stance but each one of us will make their own decisions and I won’t force my view on anyone.

What hurts me though is that there are ‘people’, ‘groups’ who think they are ‘above the law’ and ‘thumb their noses’ at us who are trying to do the right thing and infect others with this contagious virus.

I want to get out of the ‘four walls living’
I want to see my family
I want to see my friends
I want to live my life outside this 5 kms radius.
I want to see my dad.
I want to visit my family overseas.

 

[mrposhman]

A guy at work is against getting the jab because he doesn't know what's in it.

On the other hand he regularly eats processed things like Meat Pies , Hot Dogs & Chicken Nuggets for lunch.

Go figure.

I wonder how many people with this view are also recreational drug users.

Anyone who watched the 2 part series Ramsey on cocaine that followed the process of manufacturing cocaine would be appalled what goes into the process.

 

[mrposhman]

Unfortunately "the common good" is still determined by individuals with differing risk profiles. It can't be objectively determined as a universal rule for all. This is my take: the vaccines provide protection against severity of symptoms, but this effect drops off after a fairly short period of time, hence the need to keep getting boosters. Alternatively you could catch COVID and natural immunity will provide greater ongoing protection and against more variants (i'm not sure if it reduces transmission to a great extent), however this will also eventually wear off. Recovery rates are very high for young and healthy people. For me, if you are old and/or have conditions that make you more susceptible to severe symptoms from COVID then you should get the jab. Otherwise if you are young and healthy you should probably avoid it and ideally catch it and recover. In the meantime they should continue to enhance the vaccines to provide better protection against transmission, but it should follow the normal process for vaccine approval to capture long term effects of its use.

Gia, understand your point but take a look at the facts.

Younger adults can get very sick and die from COVID too. Here's what the data tell us

It seems things have shifted slightly since earlier in the pandemic. A growing proportion of people hospitalised with the Delta strain are aged in their 30s or 40s.

theconversation.com

"For younger people who are unwell enough to be hospitalised with COVID-19, the outcomes can be quite serious. A large study from the United Kingdom showed 27% of 19 to 29-year-olds admitted to hospital suffered some form of organ damage to the liver, lungs or kidneys — any of which can lead to permanent disability.

A separate study showed 14% of patients under 40 admitted to ICU died, compared with 31% across all ages.

There is evidence COVID-19 can be associated with sudden deterioration and death in people who seem to be OK, presumably from damage to the heart and sudden cardiac arrest. This phenomenon is very rare at any age.

And younger people are certainly not spared from “long COVID”. A recent Norwegian study looked at people aged 16-30 who had COVID-19 but hadn’t needed hospital treatment. It found after six months, 52% had persistent symptoms including loss of taste or smell, fatigue, breathlessness or impaired concentration."

You are obviously well within your rights to wait for your own immunity, but what if your immunity is impaired when you do contract it. Do you really want to expose yourself to potential liver, lungs or kidney damage? You are right that your likelihood of dying from Covid is low however that doesn't mean you are immune to any lasting effects.

Whilst personal immunity "may" be better (we don't know yet). Doesn't it make sense to provide a vaccination immune response, so that when your body does need to also provide personal immunity (its likely to need to once Covid-19 moves from the pandemic to the endemic stage) then this actually just bolsters your defence against it rather than having to identify and fight from scratch?

 

[glantone]

Sorry I know more about this subject than most people I know. I am not anti Vax. But if you have a narrow focus of targeting one spike protein, like the mRNA vaccines do then you force the Virus to mutate i.e. Delta. This is basic science. The Vaccines are creating the mutations.
The Vaccines for the next 15 years if we follow this approach will always be one step behind the virus. This is a perfect business model for the Pharmaceutical Companies.

Just passing by but while I’m here… as someone who self describes as knowing more than most about vaccines, riddle me this, if the ‘vaccines are creating the mutations’ as you say they are how is it that the Aplha, Beta, Gamma and Delta mutations all predate the implementation of the first vaccination programmes anywhere in the world by months? Delta for example was first noted in India in October 2020 about 3 or 4 months before India commenced their vaccination programme. If I’ve got it wrong no worries and I dibbs me hat. But if I'm right and given we're in a pandemic you need to delete such misinformation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variants_of_SARS-CoV-2

Also, on what grounds are you basing your suspicions or musings that covid vaccinations might have negative long term effects when as the antman says up until now there is no history of vaccines doing so, and vaccines have been around for a long time. Where is the documented evidence of vaccines being distributed en masse and the years later being pulled due to long term effects?

On Sam Harris podcast 256, Eric Topol, absolute top cardiologist & scientist notes among other things that historically 6-8 weeks is the standard time for all vaccines to show their ugly side because that’s how vaccines work in the body. They may take 8 or 10 years to develop but negative outcomes are displayed quickly. He also notes that 75,000 people were involved in the covid vaccination trials – that is a monster trial – and that since the 1st jab in December last year literally millions of people have had the jab. There has never been a bigger more heavily scrutinized more detailed medical ‘experiement’ (if that’s what some might call it) with so many participants in the history of vaccinations. The short time line in creating the vaccines is a testament to amazing scientific work and something we should be applauding and celebrating, …. he says.

Positing that there might be negative effects in the future is fair enough but because there are no grounds for believing that I might also posit that astrazeneca in years to come might give me xray vision, who knows...

 

[tigertime2]

So while the unvaxxed by choice swill are all milling around waiting for their test to come back negative one of them tests positive. What happens then to all those next to the punter? Those that travelled with them to the game?

Nah. Get vaxxed, prove it, or stay at home.

Choice antivaxxers should be treated differently, as if they have the virus. I don’t care about your feels. You don’t care about the rest of us.

Smear ivermectin on your date and chant kumbaya. And stay home. You deserve it. You can still get the virus and still die from the virus if vaxxed.

Just passing by but while I’m here… as someone who self describes as knowing more than most about vaccines, riddle me this, if the ‘vaccines are creating the mutations’ as you say they are how is it that the Aplha, Beta, Gamma and Delta mutations all predate the implementation of the first vaccination programmes anywhere in the world by months? Delta for example was first noted in India in October 2020 about 3 or 4 months before India commenced their vaccination programme. If I’ve got it wrong no worries and I dibbs me hat. But if I'm right and given we're in a pandemic you need to delete such misinformation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variants_of_SARS-CoV-2

Also, on what grounds are you basing your suspicions or musings that covid vaccinations might have negative long term effects when as the antman says up until now there is no history of vaccines doing so, and vaccines have been around for a long time. Where is the documented evidence of vaccines being distributed en masse and the years later being pulled due to long term effects?

On Sam Harris podcast 256, Eric Topol, absolute top cardiologist & scientist notes among other things that historically 6-8 weeks is the standard time for all vaccines to show their ugly side because that’s how vaccines work in the body. They may take 8 or 10 years to develop but negative outcomes are displayed quickly. He also notes that 75,000 people were involved in the covid vaccination trials – that is a monster trial – and that since the 1st jab in December last year literally millions of people have had the jab. There has never been a bigger more heavily scrutinized more detailed medical ‘experiement’ (if that’s what some might call it) with so many participants in the history of vaccinations. The short time line in creating the vaccines is a testament to amazing scientific work and something we should be applauding and celebrating, …. he says.

Positing that there might be negative effects in the future is fair enough but because there are no grounds for believing that I might also posit that astrazeneca in years to come might give me xray vision, who knows...

Riddle me this, if the Virus can only mutate through a host and the Vaccinated get the virus and pass the virus on - How does that stop the Covid Virus again? I will wait for the answer?

There are 50,000 reported adverse reactions in Australia to the Vaccines as reported on the TGA website. My Wife is a Nurse and she has seen some cases of adverse reactions. Anyone that says the Vaccines are completely safe are not looking at the data.

I am not against Vaccination. Trusting a Politician and a Drug company with your health is not a guaranteed path to a safe outcome.

 

[tigertime2]

Gia, understand your point but take a look at the facts.

Younger adults can get very sick and die from COVID too. Here's what the data tell us

It seems things have shifted slightly since earlier in the pandemic. A growing proportion of people hospitalised with the Delta strain are aged in their 30s or 40s.

theconversation.com

"For younger people who are unwell enough to be hospitalised with COVID-19, the outcomes can be quite serious. A large study from the United Kingdom showed 27% of 19 to 29-year-olds admitted to hospital suffered some form of organ damage to the liver, lungs or kidneys — any of which can lead to permanent disability.

A separate study showed 14% of patients under 40 admitted to ICU died, compared with 31% across all ages.

There is evidence COVID-19 can be associated with sudden deterioration and death in people who seem to be OK, presumably from damage to the heart and sudden cardiac arrest. This phenomenon is very rare at any age.

And younger people are certainly not spared from “long COVID”. A recent Norwegian study looked at people aged 16-30 who had COVID-19 but hadn’t needed hospital treatment. It found after six months, 52% had persistent symptoms including loss of taste or smell, fatigue, breathlessness or impaired concentration."

You are obviously well within your rights to wait for your own immunity, but what if your immunity is impaired when you do contract it. Do you really want to expose yourself to potential liver, lungs or kidney damage? You are right that your likelihood of dying from Covid is low however that doesn't mean you are immune to any lasting effects.

Whilst personal immunity "may" be better (we don't know yet). Doesn't it make sense to provide a vaccination immune response, so that when your body does need to also provide personal immunity (its likely to need to once Covid-19 moves from the pandemic to the endemic stage) then this actually just bolsters your defence against it rather than having to identify and fight from scratch?

The British have found that Vaccination reduces Long Covid in 50% of people who are fully vaxed and get covid. not 100%.

 

[tassietiger12]

Science tells us when inevitably the borders reopen, the vaccinated will be more likely to survive than the anti-vaxxers.

Might we then predict a proportionate rise in the national IQ as the crackpots checkout?


Originally published as Charles Wooley: Shame there’s no jab for stupidity

 

[tigertime2]

Just passing by but while I’m here… as someone who self describes as knowing more than most about vaccines, riddle me this, if the ‘vaccines are creating the mutations’ as you say they are how is it that the Aplha, Beta, Gamma and Delta mutations all predate the implementation of the first vaccination programmes anywhere in the world by months? Delta for example was first noted in India in October 2020 about 3 or 4 months before India commenced their vaccination programme. If I’ve got it wrong no worries and I dibbs me hat. But if I'm right and given we're in a pandemic you need to delete such misinformation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variants_of_SARS-CoV-2

Also, on what grounds are you basing your suspicions or musings that covid vaccinations might have negative long term effects when as the antman says up until now there is no history of vaccines doing so, and vaccines have been around for a long time. Where is the documented evidence of vaccines being distributed en masse and the years later being pulled due to long term effects?

On Sam Harris podcast 256, Eric Topol, absolute top cardiologist & scientist notes among other things that historically 6-8 weeks is the standard time for all vaccines to show their ugly side because that’s how vaccines work in the body. They may take 8 or 10 years to develop but negative outcomes are displayed quickly. He also notes that 75,000 people were involved in the covid vaccination trials – that is a monster trial – and that since the 1st jab in December last year literally millions of people have had the jab. There has never been a bigger more heavily scrutinized more detailed medical ‘experiement’ (if that’s what some might call it) with so many participants in the history of vaccinations. The short time line in creating the vaccines is a testament to amazing scientific work and something we should be applauding and celebrating, …. he says.

Positing that there might be negative effects in the future is fair enough but because there are no grounds for believing that I might also posit that astrazeneca in years to come might give me xray vision, who knows...

The viral loads in Vaccinated people can be up to 251 times higher than the unvaccinated. therefore a prime breeding ground for Variants.

Transmission of SARS-CoV-2 Delta Variant Among Vaccinated Healthcare Workers, Vietnam

Background: Data on breakthrough SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant infections are limited.<br><br>Methods: We studied breakthrough infections among healthcare workers of

papers.ssrn.com