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will we need to be vaccinated to attend games in 2022

jb03

Tiger Legend
Jan 28, 2004
30,038
5,499
Melbourne
I'm surprised you didn't finish off your post by saying "wake up!!"

On a more serious note, you've got it the wrong way around. You’re asking “why would you be concerned about people who have not taken an experimental drug?” The question we all should be asking is “why do people who refuse the vaccine try to force their uneducated views on others?” And why don’t people like you just STFU and keep your opinions to yourself?

But if you want me to answer your question I will. Anti-vaxxers are selfish. They are in it for themselves. They do not care about the best interests of the country and the people they care and love.

As for saying “I’m not anti-vax.” Yes you are. If you are against getting the COVID vaccine, that literally makes you anti-vax. No ifs or butts.
Anti-vaxxers just peddle one bullsh*t excuse after another as a reason not to get vaccinated. None of them stand up to any semblance of scrutiny. Happy for them to be vilified and happy for them to be excluded from anything when life somewhat returns to normal.

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tommystigers

Don't Boo! It is hurtful to the inept and corrupt.
Oct 6, 2004
3,701
696
Riddle me this, if the Virus can only mutate through a host and the Vaccinated get the virus and pass the virus on - How does that stop the Covid Virus again? I will wait for the answer?

There are 50,000 reported adverse reactions in Australia to the Vaccines as reported on the TGA website. My Wife is a Nurse and she has seen some cases of adverse reactions. Anyone that says the Vaccines are completely safe are not looking at the data.

I am not against Vaccination. Trusting a Politician and a Drug company with your health is not a guaranteed path to a safe outcome.
I'll respond to your response which got mutated in the quotinator. Yes, you can still get the virus and die if fully vaccinated. Yes, the virus can mutate in the vaccinated. Yes, the vaccine is not completely safe. Who cares. Not getting vaccinated is akin to sitting on a freeway hoping a car won't hit you. Mental midgetry.

Not dying is not my motivation for getting fully vaccinated with AstraZeneca. I went as soon as it became available to me. I got vaccinated to reduce the risk to my two pregnant daughters and my two yet to be born grand-daughters. I got vaccinated to reduce the risk to my wife's 85 year old mother. I got vaccinated to help Australia get out of lockdown. I got vaccinated to reduce the risk to my community, including the selfish and moronic muppets that bleat, bleat, bleat, about freedoms and rights, and spruik lunatic theories and fears in order to sell dodgy goods and services or some smoke-shield theory masking a significant undiagnosed mental health issue. Tik Tok and Insta influencers are the new breed of Einstein.

You can stick your refusal to vaccinate in a high colonic and irrigate. I don't care if your wife is a nurse or you purportedly know more about vaccines than me. Donald Trump knows more about it than you. He said it. He is what I think of when people posit superior knowledge quoting interwebz researches.
 
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waiting

Tiger Legend
Apr 15, 2007
10,076
4,827
melbourne, victoria
There are so many self-righteous statements being made without an understanding of the available data.

Fact - risk/benefit profile was the overriding factor associated with the emergency approval of vaccines by regulatory authorities in the face of the global health emergency caused by the SARS-CoV-2 virus. This virus is the cause of the COVID-19 disease in infected people. In Aus, all vaccines (AZ, Pfizer & now Moderna) have only received "provisional" approval by the TGA (i.e. not enough data to grant full approval).

So you are both right and wrong David. Selecting certain snippets from academic articles can distort the intended messaging. Lets actually look at the full abstract of the key findings:

"Findings: Between 11th–25th June 2021 (week 7–8 after dose 2), 69 healthcare workers were tested positive for SARS-CoV-2. 62 participated in the clinical study. 49 were (pre)symptomatic with one requiring oxygen supplementation. All recovered uneventfully. 23 complete-genome sequences were obtained. They all belonged to the Delta variant, and were phylogenetically distinct from the contemporary Delta variant sequences obtained from community transmission cases, suggestive of ongoing transmission between the workers. Viral loads of breakthrough Delta variant infection cases were 251 times higher than those of cases infected with old strains detected between March-April 2020. Time from diagnosis to PCR negative was 8–33 days (median: 21). Neutralizing antibody levels after vaccination and at diagnosis of the cases were lower than those in the matched uninfected controls. There was no correlation between vaccine-induced neutralizing antibody levels and viral loads or the development of symptoms.

Interpretation: Breakthrough Delta variant infections are associated with high viral loads, prolonged PCR positivity, and low levels of vaccine-induced neutralizing antibodies, explaining the transmission between the vaccinated people. Physical distancing measures remain critical to reduce SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant transmission."


To clarify, the term "breakthrough infections" refers to vaccinated individuals who have been infected with SARS-Cov-2. So yes this study would indeed suggest that vaccinated individuals do have high viral loads and thus are potentially responsible for ongoing transmission of the virus. In other words, they may not develop the COVID-19 disease, but they are able to transmit the virus!

Obviously, there is so much we do not know and extreme caution is urged when looking at a single study. What we do know is that we are in the midst of a global clinical trial and the data, while still limited, is thankfully starting to accumulate. For those individuals unsure of whether to vaccinate or not, an assessment of their risk/profile through consultations with their GP is the best way forward.

I think there is a lot to play out before normal crowds return to the footy in 2022....vaccinated or not.
For those individuals unsure of whether to vaccinate or not, an assessment of their risk/profile through consultations with their GP is the best way forward.

I think there is a lot to play out before normal crowds return to the footy in 2022....vaccinated or not.”

Aegean true what you wrote above.

It’s a personal choice for everyone of us.

Nothing is at 100% full proof.
 

Ian4

BIN MAN!
May 6, 2004
20,739
2,005
Melbourne
I'm a clearly pro vaxer but I still think other members of society should have the right to put into their bodies what they want to.
If they don't want to protect themselves & others from this isidious virus I don't understand it but I do understand why some have reservations.
They shouldn't be vilified for having that POV in spite of what the science says.
I'm must admit I'm not entirely confortably with the notion that we're dividing societies based on a jab that lets be honest is in it's early stages. It's not even approved for kids yet.
It's never been that way throughout history to divide society based on vaccines.
The vaccination is not mandatory however we're starting to mandate how people should live & move around. That concerns me somewhat.
The vaccination is my protection. If they don't want to protect themselves then that's on them.

Nah disagree. These selfish pr!cks are keeping us locked down. I would support any mandate to force vaccines. sounds harsh, and it shouldn't come to that, but the health and wellbeing of the people must come first.
 
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Tigers of Old

Proud of our Club.
Jul 26, 2004
69,664
13,869
www.redbubble.com
Nah disagree. These selfish pr!cks are keeping us locked down. I would support any mandate to force vaccines. sounds harsh, and it shouldn't come to that, but the health and wellbeing of the people must come first.
No issue with you disagreeing as is your right.

Not exactly sure who the 'people' are that you're referring to if vaccines are available to everyone who wants it. That's the protection.
 
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eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
17,045
14,778
Nah disagree. These selfish pr!cks are keeping us locked down. I would support any mandate to force vaccines. sounds harsh, and it shouldn't come to that, but the health and wellbeing of the people must come first.

i reckon 2021 should be your last chance to get an intramuscular vaccination,

then its mandatory ocular delivery
 
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Giardiasis

Tiger Legend
Apr 20, 2009
6,630
996
Brisbane
Nah disagree. These selfish pr!cks are keeping us locked down. I would support any mandate to force vaccines. sounds harsh, and it shouldn't come to that, but the health and wellbeing of the people must come first.
The government you support is keeping you locked down, no-one else. It is selfish to force others to manage your health risk for you not to mention evil. If you don't like the risk of getting sick, stay home and live in a bubble.
 
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tigertim

something funny is written here
Mar 6, 2004
25,661
5,249
Anti-vaxxers just peddle one bullsh*t excuse after another as a reason not to get vaccinated. None of them stand up to any semblance of scrutiny. Happy for them to be vilified and happy for them to be excluded from anything when life somewhat returns to normal.

View attachment 13380
How does one know they can trust their own immune system?
 
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Disco

Tiger Champion
Dec 4, 2004
3,240
1,399
Melbourne
With kids not being able to be vaccinated but able to carry the virus, will they be allowed to attend games?
It seems like this is in the detail of the NSW "roadmap" released today. Unvaccinated kids under 16 to attend venues with vaccinated parents.
 
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Disco

Tiger Champion
Dec 4, 2004
3,240
1,399
Melbourne
So they won't be able to give it to their parents (possibly) but they can to other kids. Ok.
Murky.

What about my kids who are aged under 16, but aren't vaccinated?​

Once the rate hits 70 per cent, non-vaccinated young people aged under 16 will be able to access all outdoor settings but will only be able to visit indoor venues with members of their household.
 

Tigers of Old

Proud of our Club.
Jul 26, 2004
69,664
13,869
www.redbubble.com

What about my kids who are aged under 16, but aren't vaccinated?​

Once the rate hits 70 per cent, non-vaccinated young people aged under 16 will be able to access all outdoor settings but will only be able to visit indoor venues with members of their household.
That sounds easy to police at the footy.

Appreciate the info Disco.
 

Number8

Tiger Matchwinner
Oct 12, 2010
925
1,945
Melbourne
For those not aware, there's a sad but satisfying thread for just this purpose: https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/
Fascinating and heart-wrenching. Very hard to read at times.

Makes me wonder if there are any published studies demonstrating a strong correlation between an anti-vaxx stance and a particular socio-demographic profile and/or religious disposition.

The subjects in the Reddit thread appear to have some notably consistent traits.

Including regret.
 

AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
23,877
9,662
To clarify, the term "breakthrough infections" refers to vaccinated individuals who have been infected with SARS-Cov-2. So yes this study would indeed suggest that vaccinated individuals do have high viral loads and thus are potentially responsible for ongoing transmission of the virus. In other words, they may not develop the COVID-19 disease, but they are able to transmit the virus!

Minor correction - a "break-through" infection is when a person tests positive to Covid 14 days after vaccination. IF it does happen, then yes, a vaxxed person with Covid symptoms is just as contagious as a non-vaxxed person with symptoms. The belief is still that asymptomatic "break-through" infected people are still a much lower risk of transmission than non-vaxxed people. The study cited was also a small sample, but there is work going into this area now.

There's an excellent MIT article here which discusses transmissibility (as in do vaccines limit it). The real world data suggests, yes it does. One through limiting infection, the second through reducing infectious period time length and virility. Not 100%, but yes.


The data is complex and is still coming in, for sure, and none of us here are medical scientists - I know we have some doctors.

Quoting from the MIT article from 11 August:

"So, should you worry that a fully vaccinated person who may have an asymptomatic breakthrough case can unknowingly transmit the virus to someone who is unvaccinated?

I would say it’s not likely, but we don’t yet know with certainty, says Dr. Meyer. “Theoretically, it may be true that people are being infected by their asymptomatic vaccinated contacts, but we’re just not seeing that clinically,” she says. “And the verdict is out on this in terms of the epidemiologic data.”"


Going back to DavidSS original point, yes the 250 times viral load is in fact a comparison between pre-Delta infections and Delta infections, so he was totally right about that.

EDIT Pfizer is now FULLY approved by the FDA with Moderna to follow soon. These will all soon be fully approved by the TGA as well. On general safety and efficacy of the vaccines the data is now in.
 
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AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
23,877
9,662
Fascinating and heart-wrenching. Very hard to read at times.

Makes me wonder if there are any published studies demonstrating a strong correlation between an anti-vaxx stance and a particular socio-demographic profile and/or religious disposition.

The subjects in the Reddit thread appear to have some notably consistent traits.

Including regret.

They often appear to be overweight opinionated chaps wearing MAGA caps. I guess being fat is a co-morbidity issue, there must be some thin Trump supporters out there.

EDIT apparently if you have a goatee in addition to being overweight and MAGA you're basically done for
 
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DavidSSS

Tiger Legend
Dec 11, 2017
6,491
8,232
Melbourne
I'm a clearly pro vaxer but I still think other members of society should have the right to put into their bodies what they want to.
If they don't want to protect themselves & others from this isidious virus I don't understand it but I do understand why some have reservations.
They shouldn't be vilified for having that POV in spite of what the science says.
I'm must admit I'm not entirely confortably with the notion that we're dividing societies based on a jab that lets be honest is in it's early stages. It's not even approved for kids yet.
It's never been that way throughout history to divide society based on vaccines.
The vaccination is not mandatory however we're starting to mandate how people should live & move around. That concerns me somewhat.
The vaccination is my protection. If they don't want to protect themselves then that's on them.

But it has been that way in history with vaccines. It would be at least 10 pages ago but someone linked an article from (I think) The Atlantic about how, on entering the USA back when the small pox vaccine was ramping up, you had to prove you had the vaccine or they would give you the vaccine on the spot. Plus, I have mentioned a few times how entering Australia from various countries requires (I figure this is still the case) verification of Yellow Fever vaccination. This is not unprecedented at all.

Aegean Tiger, you make some fair points, but the original post by TigerTime2 claimed that viral loads can be higher for vaccinated as opposed to unvaccinated people and cited an article which said nothing of the sort. The increased viral load is for Breakthrough Delta Variant Infections not Breakthrough Infections, there is a big difference and the article does not support implying that vaccinated people carry a higher viral load as a result of being vaccinated.

DS
 
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DavidSSS

Tiger Legend
Dec 11, 2017
6,491
8,232
Melbourne
The government you support is keeping you locked down, no-one else. It is selfish to force others to manage your health risk for you not to mention evil. If you don't like the risk of getting sick, stay home and live in a bubble.

No, what is selfish is to refuse to take precautions (such as getting vaccinated) when the effect of not taking precautions puts other peoples' health in jeopardy.

I know you won't agree with this because there is, after all, no such thing as society or community, just individuals, in your ideology.

DS
 
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