will we need to be vaccinated to attend games in 2022 | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
  • IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.

will we need to be vaccinated to attend games in 2022

Status
Not open for further replies.

Al Bundy

Premiers 2017, 2019, 2020 ...2021?
Aug 27, 2003
7,141
616
Melbourne
i'd say yes, but not for it.
If you cant attend games if not vaccinated then I assume there is no point i having a membership
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

DavidSSS

Tiger Legend
Dec 11, 2017
10,525
17,880
Melbourne
I was against it at the start.
Was against my elderly mum having it. she has had various issues with her health. My sister was against her having it too and we made our feelings known. Her GP suggested it would be better for her if she did.
But mum has had both AZ and she has had no complications.

I had my first 3 months ago and my second one is due next month.

Vaccine ID, Passports identifying if you have been vaccinated is what we will face in the future.

There are no guarantees.

There are companies doing well out of this crisis.

I just want us to live our lives. This is our future. A Covid future where this will be with us in one form or another.

Boosters to guard ourselves. Variants to cause us grief but to be vaccinated and to not live a ‘caged’ existence when other countries have decided to live with COVID is better than the alternative.

I have friends who haven’t and who may not. They have their opinions , their conspiracy theories, the against my liberty stance but each one of us will make their own decisions and I won’t force my view on anyone.

What hurts me though is that there are ‘people’, ‘groups’ who think they are ‘above the law’ and ‘thumb their noses’ at us who are trying to do the right thing and infect others with this contagious virus.

I want to get out of the ‘four walls living’
I want to see my family
I want to see my friends
I want to live my life outside this 5 kms radius.
I want to see my dad.
I want to visit my family overseas.

Lot to unpack here.

One of the things I noticed when I looked it up was just how few conditions mean that you can't take AZ. While we should all have a look at what we take the COVID vaccines do seem to be available for just about everyone. It's quit impressive really. My partners' brother has a number of conditions including MS and epilepsy, but the vaccine is fine for someone like him, in fact a bloody goo idea. So while we have concerns especially about elderly relatives, these vaccines have proven to be safe.

Yep, the big pharma companies are doing well out of this. Just a pity we no longer own CSL as it would be throwing big profits to our consolidated revenue. I'm sure Pfizer and Astra-Zeneka are doing very well. Still, they are providing something we need. Just hope the research institutions, like Oxford Uni for AZ, are also doing well.

Vax passports are a point of debate, but you are right, they are just going to happen, especially for international travel.

Vaccinations are clearly the way out of this, although there has been some talk of a 3 jab vaccination being enough for a longer time, we'll see.

DS
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

DavidSSS

Tiger Legend
Dec 11, 2017
10,525
17,880
Melbourne
The viral loads in Vaccinated people can be up to 251 times higher than the unvaccinated. therefore a prime breeding ground for Variants.


FFS why distort what the paper says?

What you are claiming is that viral loads can be higher in vaccinated people, is that what the paper says?

Well, no, here's what the abstract says:

Viral loads of breakthrough Delta variant infection cases were 251 times higher than those of cases infected with old strains detected between March-April 2020.

Plus, it also says:

There was no correlation between vaccine-induced neutralizing antibody levels and viral loads or the development of symptoms.

It is the virus variant which is identified as the difference and the reason for the larger viral load, not the vaccine.

DS
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 users

silvertiger

Tiger Rookie
Aug 28, 2014
334
308
Time for this meme again me thinks
View attachment 13376
Ever heard of group think? Are you gullible enough to think it's "all about the science"? Turn off the TV and do some research. ps. If you get the "vaccine" (experimental drug) why would you be concerned about people who have not taken an experimental drug? I'm not anti vax - could not care if you choose to take an experimental drug. Unless your like fascists and communism you should not have a problem with personal responsibility and the choice not to take an experimental drug.
 
  • Haha
  • Like
  • Wow
Reactions: 5 users

LeeToRainesToRoach

Tiger Legend
Jun 4, 2006
33,186
11,546
Melbourne
They're welcome to my spot in standing room and it's got nothing to do with vaccines.

Suspect the AFL will be begging people to return.

*smile*.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users

LeeToRainesToRoach

Tiger Legend
Jun 4, 2006
33,186
11,546
Melbourne
It will be ridiculous if fans have to be vaccinated but players don't.
Unless they want to exist in bubbles again, they can't afford for an infected player to bring an entire club down. Many employers are edging towards mandatory vaccination without yet being willing to jump straight to it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

deedee

Tiger Matchwinner
Sep 12, 2011
797
865
Just passing by but while I’m here… as someone who self describes as knowing more than most about vaccines, riddle me this, if the ‘vaccines are creating the mutations’ as you say they are how is it that the Aplha, Beta, Gamma and Delta mutations all predate the implementation of the first vaccination programmes anywhere in the world by months? Delta for example was first noted in India in October 2020 about 3 or 4 months before India commenced their vaccination programme. If I’ve got it wrong no worries and I dibbs me hat. But if I'm right and given we're in a pandemic you need to delete such misinformation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variants_of_SARS-CoV-2

Also, on what grounds are you basing your suspicions or musings that covid vaccinations might have negative long term effects when as the antman says up until now there is no history of vaccines doing so, and vaccines have been around for a long time. Where is the documented evidence of vaccines being distributed en masse and the years later being pulled due to long term effects?

On Sam Harris podcast 256, Eric Topol, absolute top cardiologist & scientist notes among other things that historically 6-8 weeks is the standard time for all vaccines to show their ugly side because that’s how vaccines work in the body. They may take 8 or 10 years to develop but negative outcomes are displayed quickly. He also notes that 75,000 people were involved in the covid vaccination trials – that is a monster trial – and that since the 1st jab in December last year literally millions of people have had the jab. There has never been a bigger more heavily scrutinized more detailed medical ‘experiement’ (if that’s what some might call it) with so many participants in the history of vaccinations. The short time line in creating the vaccines is a testament to amazing scientific work and something we should be applauding and celebrating, …. he says.

Positing that there might be negative effects in the future is fair enough but because there are no grounds for believing that I might also posit that astrazeneca in years to come might give me xray vision, who knows...
Simple........ Time travel
 

Baloo

Delisted Free Agent
Nov 8, 2005
44,115
18,926
Ever heard of group think? Are you gullible enough to think it's "all about the science"? Turn off the TV and do some research. ps. If you get the "vaccine" (experimental drug) why would you be concerned about people who have not taken an experimental drug? I'm not anti vax - could not care if you choose to take an experimental drug. Unless your like fascists and communism you should not have a problem with personal responsibility and the choice not to take an experimental drug.
This research you speak of, you do it on the internet?
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: 1 users

tigertough12

Tiger Superstar
Jun 3, 2004
1,228
33
Ever heard of group think? Are you gullible enough to think it's "all about the science"? Turn off the TV and do some research. ps. If you get the "vaccine" (experimental drug) why would you be concerned about people who have not taken an experimental drug? I'm not anti vax - could not care if you choose to take an experimental drug. Unless your like fascists and communism you should not have a problem with personal responsibility and the choice not to take an experimental drug.
You’re a special kind of stupid aren’t you
 

Number8

Tiger Superstar
Oct 12, 2010
1,193
2,799
Melbourne
Ever heard of group think? Are you gullible enough to think it's "all about the science"? Turn off the TV and do some research. ps. If you get the "vaccine" (experimental drug) why would you be concerned about people who have not taken an experimental drug? I'm not anti vax - could not care if you choose to take an experimental drug. Unless your like fascists and communism you should not have a problem with personal responsibility and the choice not to take an experimental drug.
It really is an anthropological wonder that people can find themselves in a place like this.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users

mjb

Tiger Matchwinner
Jun 23, 2007
576
452
Driving home the other day listening to Derwayne on SEN and an antivaxxer rang in. I nearly drove off the Westgate when he said “I’ve done hours of research…..”
 
  • Haha
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users

Ian4

BIN MAN!
May 6, 2004
22,180
4,679
Melbourne
Ever heard of group think? Are you gullible enough to think it's "all about the science"? Turn off the TV and do some research. ps. If you get the "vaccine" (experimental drug) why would you be concerned about people who have not taken an experimental drug? I'm not anti vax - could not care if you choose to take an experimental drug. Unless your like fascists and communism you should not have a problem with personal responsibility and the choice not to take an experimental drug.

I'm surprised you didn't finish off your post by saying "wake up!!"

On a more serious note, you've got it the wrong way around. You’re asking “why would you be concerned about people who have not taken an experimental drug?” The question we all should be asking is “why do people who refuse the vaccine try to force their uneducated views on others?” And why don’t people like you just STFU and keep your opinions to yourself?

But if you want me to answer your question I will. Anti-vaxxers are selfish. They are in it for themselves. They do not care about the best interests of the country and the people they care and love.

As for saying “I’m not anti-vax.” Yes you are. If you are against getting the COVID vaccine, that literally makes you anti-vax. No ifs or butts.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 10 users
Jul 26, 2004
78,245
38,255
www.redbubble.com
I'm a clearly pro vaxer but I still think other members of society should have the right to put into their bodies what they want to.
If they don't want to protect themselves & others from this isidious virus I don't understand it but I do understand why some have reservations.
They shouldn't be vilified for having that POV in spite of what the science says.
I'm must admit I'm not entirely confortably with the notion that we're dividing societies based on a jab that lets be honest is in it's early stages. It's not even approved for kids yet.
It's never been that way throughout history to divide society based on vaccines.
The vaccination is not mandatory however we're starting to mandate how people should live & move around. That concerns me somewhat.
The vaccination is my protection. If they don't want to protect themselves then that's on them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 6 users

Aegean Tiger

Tiger Superstar
Aug 27, 2008
1,820
1,073
FFS why distort what the paper says?

What you are claiming is that viral loads can be higher in vaccinated people, is that what the paper says?

Well, no, here's what the abstract says:



Plus, it also says:



It is the virus variant which is identified as the difference and the reason for the larger viral load, not the vaccine.

DS
There are so many self-righteous statements being made without an understanding of the available data.

Fact - risk/benefit profile was the overriding factor associated with the emergency approval of vaccines by regulatory authorities in the face of the global health emergency caused by the SARS-CoV-2 virus. This virus is the cause of the COVID-19 disease in infected people. In Aus, all vaccines (AZ, Pfizer & now Moderna) have only received "provisional" approval by the TGA (i.e. not enough data to grant full approval).

So you are both right and wrong David. Selecting certain snippets from academic articles can distort the intended messaging. Lets actually look at the full abstract of the key findings:

"Findings: Between 11th–25th June 2021 (week 7–8 after dose 2), 69 healthcare workers were tested positive for SARS-CoV-2. 62 participated in the clinical study. 49 were (pre)symptomatic with one requiring oxygen supplementation. All recovered uneventfully. 23 complete-genome sequences were obtained. They all belonged to the Delta variant, and were phylogenetically distinct from the contemporary Delta variant sequences obtained from community transmission cases, suggestive of ongoing transmission between the workers. Viral loads of breakthrough Delta variant infection cases were 251 times higher than those of cases infected with old strains detected between March-April 2020. Time from diagnosis to PCR negative was 8–33 days (median: 21). Neutralizing antibody levels after vaccination and at diagnosis of the cases were lower than those in the matched uninfected controls. There was no correlation between vaccine-induced neutralizing antibody levels and viral loads or the development of symptoms.

Interpretation: Breakthrough Delta variant infections are associated with high viral loads, prolonged PCR positivity, and low levels of vaccine-induced neutralizing antibodies, explaining the transmission between the vaccinated people. Physical distancing measures remain critical to reduce SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant transmission."


To clarify, the term "breakthrough infections" refers to vaccinated individuals who have been infected with SARS-Cov-2. So yes this study would indeed suggest that vaccinated individuals do have high viral loads and thus are potentially responsible for ongoing transmission of the virus. In other words, they may not develop the COVID-19 disease, but they are able to transmit the virus!

Obviously, there is so much we do not know and extreme caution is urged when looking at a single study. What we do know is that we are in the midst of a global clinical trial and the data, while still limited, is thankfully starting to accumulate. For those individuals unsure of whether to vaccinate or not, an assessment of their risk/profile through consultations with their GP is the best way forward.

I think there is a lot to play out before normal crowds return to the footy in 2022....vaccinated or not.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users

Aegean Tiger

Tiger Superstar
Aug 27, 2008
1,820
1,073
I'm a clearly pro vaxer but I still think other members of society should have the right to put into their bodies what they want to.
If they don't want to protect themselves & others from this isidious virus I don't understand it but I do understand why some have reservations.
They shouldn't be vilified for having that POV in spite of what the science says.
I'm must admit I'm not entirely confortably with the notion that we're dividing societies based on a jab that lets be honest is in it's early stages. It's not even approved for kids yet.
It's never been that way throughout history to divide society based on vaccines.
The vaccination is not mandatory however we're starting to mandate how people should live & move around. That concerns me somewhat.
The vaccination is my protection. If they don't want to protect themselves then that's on them.
Share your concerns TO.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users

jb03

Tiger Legend
Jan 28, 2004
33,856
12,108
Melbourne
I'm surprised you didn't finish off your post by saying "wake up!!"

On a more serious note, you've got it the wrong way around. You’re asking “why would you be concerned about people who have not taken an experimental drug?” The question we all should be asking is “why do people who refuse the vaccine try to force their uneducated views on others?” And why don’t people like you just STFU and keep your opinions to yourself?

But if you want me to answer your question I will. Anti-vaxxers are selfish. They are in it for themselves. They do not care about the best interests of the country and the people they care and love.

As for saying “I’m not anti-vax.” Yes you are. If you are against getting the COVID vaccine, that literally makes you anti-vax. No ifs or butts.
Anti-vaxxers just peddle one bullsh*t excuse after another as a reason not to get vaccinated. None of them stand up to any semblance of scrutiny. Happy for them to be vilified and happy for them to be excluded from anything when life somewhat returns to normal.

1631156146348.png
 
  • Like
Reactions: 11 users
Status
Not open for further replies.