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Woke politics discussion

ceehook2

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apparently the first people to support Syrian refuees in Canada were a local Jewish group , jews helping muslims :oops:

take the politics out of things and amazing what people will do , like I even have a drink with a Cats supporter :ROFLMAO:
 
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DavidSSS

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The problem with a lot of this type of stuff, that often resorts to people hearing "they" want to cancel Christmas and what not, is that while someone might have good intentions "let them eat everything on the table", it deprives others.

I live in a country that's a good mix of Chinese, Malay and Indian cultures. They live their lives together quite peacefully and no one deprives others because of religion or culture.

At a banquet, or large food spread, there will be labels on all Halal food. Similar labels on all Vegetarian dishes. People eat what they want to eat without complaining that they are being marginalised because no one thought to order halal roast pork belly.

You travel through Malaysia, a very staunch Muslim country with muslim laws, during December and plastered everywhere in stores and malls is "Selamat Hari Natal", or Merry Christmas in Malay. They celebrate each others festivities and everyone is welcome to join in and celebrate.

So the next time you hear the "muslims" are trying to cancel Christmas or some other culture trying to cancel something else, there's a more likely chance that's it's actually some ignorant wannabe do gooder anglo saxon who is actually doing a lot more harm than good.

The other possibility, and the one which in my experience is the most accurate, is that the stories of muslims attempting to ban Christmas, of people stating that all food available must be halal/kosher/Vego/Vegan/Gluten Free/Dairy Free or whatever, etc, is just made up. I have never heard anyone I know actually say this has happened at their workplace, it is always hearsay, so and so told me that at a friend of theirs work they did this or that. I call *smile*.

I would work in one of the most woke workplaces you could find, we have trans people, gays, all sorts of religions, races, food preferences etc. Did we have a Christmas tree at work - yep, and no-one objected, because . . . well, no one actually objects.

No halal aisle at my supermarket, but there is a kosher aisle and . . . no one objects.

The RWNJs might complain about wokeness but what they spout is just made up outrage.

DS
 
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Panthera Tigris

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Douglas Murray - game, set and match.

The twit arguing with him - with the debating style and demeanour of a 13YO self righteous school girl activist - had no idea the entire time Douglas was reeling him in, hook, line and sinker, then….BAM, cut off his head with the fatal blow.

Turned as pink as his shirt with embarrassment mixed with indignant rage he was trying so hard not to just explode with.
 
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AngryAnt

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Douglas Murray - game, set and match.

The twit arguing with him - with the debating style and demeanour of a 13YO self righteous school girl activist - had no idea the entire time Douglas was reeling him in, hook, line and sinker, then….BAM, cut off his head with the fatal blow.

Turned as pink as his shirt with embarrassment mixed with indignant rage he was trying so hard not to just explode with.

can you give us a clue as to what they are discussing?
 

Panthera Tigris

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can you give us a clue as to what they are discussing?
I think on Piers Morgan’s show recently there have been quite a few discussion around the general culture of the LBGTIQ++++ political movement. All based around pride month.

This discussion was about the C-grade performer, Sam Smith, who is a bit of a flash in the pan icon of the movement. But at the same time, Smith is a pretty good proxy of the absurdly ridiculous excesses of LBQTIQ cultural politics. Hence the argument morphed into the twit in the pink shirt getting all upset that not everyone unquestionably holds some of this nonsense with the same reverence and sanctity as his bubble has lead him to believe. And to his surprise, not even a gay man like Douglas Murray.
 
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AngryAnt

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Thanks for the description... but classic Piers Morgan and Dave Rubin? There's three minutes I'll never get back.
 
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Panthera Tigris

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Thanks for the description... but classic Piers Morgan and Dave Rubin? There's three minutes I'll never get back.
I was in it more for Douglas Murray’s dry, eloquent wit than Rubin or Morgan.

I did have a chuckle recently where I heard Murray mockingly suggest with a grin, that he has long been excommunicated from the “church of gay” for heresy.
 
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Brodders17

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WOKE: aware of and actively attentive to important facts and issues (especially issues of racial and social justice)

Dont get sucked in by the bigots and racists from the right:
 
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AngryAnt

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I was in it more for Douglas Murray’s dry, eloquent wit than Rubin or Morgan.

I did have a chuckle recently where I heard Murray mockingly suggest with a grin, that he has long been excommunicated from the “church of gay” for heresy.

There wasn't really much there. Refusal to use pronouns and commenting on that performer's gender identity? All pretty sad stuff.
 

Panthera Tigris

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There wasn't really much there. Refusal to use pronouns and commenting on that performer's gender identity? All pretty sad stuff.


Some additional comments he made in the past week on the issue. Taken from a longer interview he did regarding his thoughts on the pride movement and LBGTIQ cultural politics.
 

AngryAnt

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Some additional comments he made in the past week on the issue. Taken from a longer interview he did regarding his thoughts on the pride movement and LBGTIQ cultural politics.

I think I've got enough info already to understand his point of view.
 

Sintiger

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The problem with a lot of this type of stuff, that often resorts to people hearing "they" want to cancel Christmas and what not, is that while someone might have good intentions "let them eat everything on the table", it deprives others.

I live in a country that's a good mix of Chinese, Malay and Indian cultures. They live their lives together quite peacefully and no one deprives others because of religion or culture.

At a banquet, or large food spread, there will be labels on all Halal food. Similar labels on all Vegetarian dishes. People eat what they want to eat without complaining that they are being marginalised because no one thought to order halal roast pork belly.

You travel through Malaysia, a very staunch Muslim country with muslim laws, during December and plastered everywhere in stores and malls is "Selamat Hari Natal", or Merry Christmas in Malay. They celebrate each others festivities and everyone is welcome to join in and celebrate.

So the next time you hear the "muslims" are trying to cancel Christmas or some other culture trying to cancel something else, there's a more likely chance that's it's actually some ignorant wannabe do gooder anglo saxon who is actually doing a lot more harm than good.
I missed this post from long ago Baloo and agree with you.

In my time living in SEAsia all I ever saw was an acceptance of the different cultures because actually they are just part of their daily life. I went to end of fasting feasts as a guest, we had muslim friends over to our place for Christmas celebrations.

There is an undercurrent ( or at least there was) of acceptance of the status quo that underpins those societies however . The Chinese run Singapore, the bumi run Malaysia ( at least politically) and the same in Indonesia. We always need to remember that it is just 60 years ago when there was significant ethnic tensions and violence in those countries and that came to the surface again in Indonesia in the late 1990s with the economic crisis at that time. But by and large the general populations live very peacefully together and share each others cultures.
 
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Panthera Tigris

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I missed this post from long ago Baloo and agree with you.

In my time living in SEAsia all I ever saw was an acceptance of the different cultures because actually they are just part of their daily life. I went to end of fasting feasts as a guest, we had muslim friends over to our place for Christmas celebrations.

There is an undercurrent ( or at least there was) of acceptance of the status quo that underpins those societies however . The Chinese run Singapore, the bumi run Malaysia ( at least politically) and the same in Indonesia. We always need to remember that it is just 60 years ago when there was significant ethnic tensions and violence in those countries and that came to the surface again in Indonesia in the late 1990s with the economic crisis at that time. But by and large the general populations live very peacefully together and share each others cultures.
On the flip side. In my big pile of books I got for Christmas that I’m yet to get through, is one written by a journalist on the ground in the last year of the Yugoslavia before it broke up.

Talking about how they went from relatively good coexistence (not without well known faults of course), to eventually murdering each other in a quick passage of time. Where (ethnic) group identity took over as the fundamental definition of a person and hence it attached an assumed range of social and political views and perspectives, as well as grievances to a person (without nuance), based on their group identity, whether this was the reality of a person individually, or not. Obviously being assigned to a person both from within their group and from outside.

Just lead into a dangerous tunnel of perpetual assumption, suspicion and prejudice. And we all know the end results.

Not saying we are all going to start imminently murdering each other yet (well in the US they might, the circulation of guns makes that far easier). But it is one reflection on group identity politics.
 
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Baloo

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last year of the Yugoslavia before it broke up.

Talking about how they went from relatively good coexistence (not without well known faults of course), to eventually murdering each other in a quick passage of time. Where (ethnic) group identity took over as the fundamental definition of a person and hence it attached an assumed range of social and political views and perspectives, as well as grievances to a person (without nuance), based on their group identity, whether this was the reality of a person individually, or not.

That's a bit different I think. From growing up and knowing plenty of "Yugoslavian" families and friends, there was a real hatred between Serbs and Croats stemming from WWII I guess. Tito kept the country under control but when he died, it only took 10 years before Milosevic kicked off the civil war.
 

Panthera Tigris

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That's a bit different I think. From growing up and knowing plenty of "Yugoslavian" families and friends, there was a real hatred between Serbs and Croats stemming from WWII I guess. Tito kept the country under control but when he died, it only took 10 years before Milosevic kicked off the civil war.
Have a really good friend (older generation than I) who migrated at the height of it. He’s from Sarajevo. He finds himself at odds with essentially everyone. In that he refuses to identify as any the ethnic groupings. As far as he’s concerned, he was a Yugoslav and believed inherently in the Pan-Slavic project. There was always a small niche grouping of like minded people as him among the Yugoslav diaspora in Australia. They even had their own soccer club on the Sydney scene that punched on equally with the Croat and Serb clubs. He said to me seeing as Yugoslavia doesn’t exist, he is pretty much just Australian now. No such thing as an Aussie-Croat or Aussie-Serb in his eyes it seems. Simply, he is Aussie and his daughters who came as infants likewise are.

More I suppose I was pointing out how it’s an interesting parallel to themes permeating through a some group identity politics.

I relate this back to the LBGTIQ activist duelling with Douglas Murray in the earlier video I shared. To him, being a gay man is not simply the material reality of being attracted to people of the same sex. It’s an all encompassing ‘Queer’ political identity, which comes with a prescribed (and assumed) set of views, opinions, outlook. Someone whom is gay, not holding this strictly prescribed world view in its entirety is either a traitor, or worse, not a ‘real’ gay and is excommunicated from the contrived so called ‘Queer community’ he believes exists. And likewise you can see his suspicion, assumptions and conclusion (and prejudice) of what constitutes white, ‘CIS’ male views, without nuance and hence, what they are permitted to comment on.

Sure, not quite the same thing as the tragic break up of Yugoslavia. But just an observation on the thought processes and psychology of group identity politics.
 
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Baloo

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It would be true to type for Piers Morgan to bring in the most hysterical, over the top, emotional unbalanced with low debating skills LGBTIQetc "expert" he could find onto his show though.
 
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DavidSSS

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On the flip side. In my big pile of books I got for Christmas that I’m yet to get through, is one written by a journalist on the ground in the last year of the Yugoslavia before it broke up.

Talking about how they went from relatively good coexistence (not without well known faults of course), to eventually murdering each other in a quick passage of time. Where (ethnic) group identity took over as the fundamental definition of a person and hence it attached an assumed range of social and political views and perspectives, as well as grievances to a person (without nuance), based on their group identity, whether this was the reality of a person individually, or not. Obviously being assigned to a person both from within their group and from outside.

Just lead into a dangerous tunnel of perpetual assumption, suspicion and prejudice. And we all know the end results.

Not saying we are all going to start imminently murdering each other yet (well in the US they might, the circulation of guns makes that far easier). But it is one reflection on group identity politics.

Bloody Europeans, so tribal.

DS
 

Panthera Tigris

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Bloody Europeans, so tribal.

DS
Obviously horrific. But at the same time fascinating to me. My reading tastes are obviously very much not typical.

To your point, of course the southern Slavs are essentially tribes.

I was reading a few chapters on Ethiopian ethno-politics of late. The author noted that it probably had the closest parallel he can think of around the world as the ethno-politics that lead to the break up of Yugoslavia. Might not sound obvious, but goes to your inference. People are just people. They are more similar than they are different.

Also reminds me of a jovial conversation Grif Rhys-Jones was having with a friendly local in Uganda, on one of his train journey shows. They got chatting about which tribe the man was from. Then he said to Griff….”So you are English? British?” Griff told the man, he’s actually Welsh. The man replies, “ah yes of course….Welsh, Scottish, English make up Britain, those are your tribes.” “Indeed they are,” said Griff and they had a good natured chuckle together.
 
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