2023 Draft Thread.

[Dyer'ere]

That Shoey kid could make a hell of a lot of recruiters look stupid if he becomes a player. Key forward with a thunderous kick who was touted as being around the top ten picks. Kid got left dangling on draft night coz he got on the *smile* at training camp n copped a ten week ban from junior footy. Some, many kids take a little bit of time to grow up n figure dumb *smile* out. He copped a massive ten weeks n public humiliation type foot up the arse to straighten up his thinking a bit. At pick 62 he's purely a free hit at the draft, if he steps up n becomes a player the drafting experts should all cop a pay cut.

Drug use? There wouldn't be a draft if we tested them. He was contrite. Nobody cares. Maybe one or two of the life virgins who recruit. But most of them went to school.

And it won't be Toce that he makes a fool of, TM!

On his sliding. Those with skin in the game proved that Arie Shoemaker was the 62nd best player available in the 2023 draft. The sliding is a theory put about by those with no skin in the game. People who don't matter. (Like you and me.)

From that lofty position I think Arie's pots at the time of the draft were:

Very outside.​

Sagger.​

Not quick.​

Probably not a tall.​

Bit loose.​

Can he defend?​

Where does he play? #3 back? #4 back? Wing?​

The same pots applied to Daniel Curtin (except that Curtin can play inside a bit and is a bit bigger). Who we might say slid. Did he slide or did fans on the Inrerwebz get it wrong? I had Curtin as high as four at one stage. Then I moved him to 20. I don't matter. I have no skin in the game.

Players may slide. And firm. But in the main it's just that fans on the Interwebz get it wrong. Anf the Interwebz was built so we don't have to admit it. I never get it wrong when I'm on the Interwebz. And I'm sure you don't. We just switch threads.

As we know only too well it can all turn to *smile* from here anyway. One game is a pretty small sample. But Shoemaker played his first game like a bloke who should be on a list.

 

[Dyer'ere]

if he steps up n becomes a player the drafting experts should all cop a pay cut.

I think the 2023 might send shockwaves through the industry. Many of those with skin in the game seem to have got it so wrong that they are skinless and out of it.

I've seen some pseudoscience in my time but drafting? Are darts more scientific? Are algorithms? See the shakeup coming? Do we need a more algorithmic methods of selection? Do we replace most or all of our recruiters with data scientists?

What does Adrian Caruso (GWS) do? He's a Champion Data type. How does his work at this draft shape? If Gothard or Peake can sweat and Curtin can't Caruso wins. That's a card play not algorithmic. Simple management of cards in a hand. But he is an algorithmic type. Not a puffer jacket and breakfast burrito heuristic.

Board meetings are for frogmarchings and lynchings. Not sure who's being lynched Mr Drafting Manager? 2023 is Item 1 on the agenda. The charming Islander man in fluoro is waiting by your workstation with a cardboard box for your golf trophies. He is gong to stomp on the box after you fill it.

 

[Scoop]

This is good stuff Jack. I think this is something we should do more of, go back and review if the now, marries up with the "why?" at the time of the draft.

And agree on Shoemaker, he reminds me of a bigger Matt Suckling. We just saw what Hathorn are rebuilding form the back half with footskills, Arie could fit into that. And St Kilda lack class and kicking. At 62, it's a good punt.

The big takeaway, I like the picks Toce makes. This should gave us more faith. Could we do with Darcy Wilson and this bloke? Yep.

There was murmurings on here that we were big Darcy Wilson fans as well.

 

[nswtiger]

Jed Walter has been a bit underwhelming in his first year I reckon.

my view of Jed is
and Easy won't like this .but in my eyes he is a fullback ............kicking for goal and his positioning needs a lot of work .........in the u18 he was a man playing against smaller players and he bullied them .hitting packs man handling them, .not now in the bigger league he can't do that and he gets bodied out of the contest .......??? forward craft smarts if he can't bully the opposition ...........might be his downfall .............can he adapt and learn to play in the AFL ??
as a backman yes ....forward ...............unsure .his Footy IQ ??????

 

[Dyer'ere]

This is good stuff Jack. I think this is something we should do more of, go back and review if the now, marries up with the "why?" at the time of the draft.

And agree on Shoemaker, he reminds me of a bigger Matt Suckling. We just saw what Hathorn are rebuilding form the back half with footskills, Arie could fit into that. And St Kilda lack class and kicking. At 62, it's a good punt.

The big takeaway, I like the picks Toce makes. This should gave us more faith. Could we do with Darcy Wilson and this bloke? Yep.

There was murmurings on here that we were big Darcy Wilson fans as well.

There are gong to be ups and downs, Scoop, but we don't review these blokes enough. They *smile* Xmas in 2023.

On Arie at #62, Toce didn't let him slide to the Rookie Draft. Had a nice little card and used it shrewdly.

We'll get to the echo chamber eventually when we assess the performance of recruiters in 2023. We'll see who might have fallen victim to its diabolical effects. And the results will be damning. Who traded out of that draft? Whence came the idea that it was a bad draft? Who acted on his expressed views? Who acted the opposite?

 

[bengal tigers]

There are gong to be ups and downs, Scoop, but we don't review these blokes enough. They *smile* Xmas in 2023.

On Arie at #62, Toce didn't let him slide to the Rookie Draft. Had a nice little card and used it shrewdly.

We'll get to the echo chamber eventually when we assess the performance of recruiters in 2023. We'll see who might have fallen victim to its diabolical effects. And the results will be damning. Who traded out of that draft? Whence came the idea that it was a bad draft? Who acted on his expressed views? Who acted the opposite?

I was a big fan of Schoemaker,l would of taken him second round,but still along way to go yet,and really stuff him he plays for another club

 

[Dyer'ere]

I was a big fan of Schoemaker,l would of taken him second round,but still along way to go yet,and really stuff him he plays for another club

He'll probably make drop punts of us all next week, bengal.

 

[Scoop]

Kynan Brown playing this week for the Dees.

I’m a huge fan. Team first footballer.

 

[Don’t Argue]

Nate Caddy to debut this week.

Unfortunately the Bombers have found one here.

 

[bengal tigers]

Next year's draft is looking good as well.
We have a nga Zayden Lockwood who at the moment is 196cm,not sure about his weight,but is a bit skinny ,but is very athletic plays for Bendigo Pioneers ,and has been selected for the AFL multicultural Academy .

Would love to get Sam Lalor next year ,He is really good tough player,and he is still only 16 turns 17 in a few months 186cm 78kg at the moment.

With the most likely scenario we get Naish with our third round or forth round pick ,l reckon we will get a ruck with our second pick ,or if we can go up the board a bit,we might be lucky to get a decent kp,but we will probably use Trade/Free agency for that.

*smile* l was talking about him way back

 

[Scoop]

Big Archie Roberts fan @tigersnake pumped for his debut tonight.

 

[Scoop]

Big Archie Roberts fan @tigersnake pumped for his debut tonight.

18 Disposals
5 Marks
4 Tackles
4 Inside 50s
3 Score Involvements
2 Clearances

Not behd. Look composed on the big stage.

 

[The_General]

Unfortunately the Bombers have found one here.

Couldn't agree more.
I'm not too concerned about missing out on Van Hoofenband but missing out on Caddy hurts to watch. Reckon he'll be a great, clutch player in big games. Has that attitude you want in a forward.

 

[Dyer'ere]

Ashton Moir was moved up the park in R20 at VFL level. He was a class above in the Carlton comeback. And was promoted. On his senior debut he kicked 1.1 from 23% TOG. Got the cuddle but got a kick too. I think Moir may be a bloomer next year. Maybe even this year. I like him much better up the park.

Freijah got 29 in a cakewalk. 3 Spoils. He's still 18yo.

Huge Garcia had to be promoted on the back of his matchwinning 34 touch, 12TK, 3 goal game against RFC in R20. Given the cuddle in the seniors Garcia came on a had a big impact at a crucial stage of the match. 6 touches for 4 SI. 3 GBG and a clearance. 15% TOG.

Skinny slow Logan Evans got less ball than usual in a hot Showdown. 6 Spoils. Super competitive. Bulletproof with the ball. And doesn't seem to know he's skinny. Still 18yo and already a senior player. Went in the MSD. Overlooked in the ND. Very unfashionable but diligent and classy.

Footnote: Connor O'Sullivan got a power of a hiding in Geelong's R20 VFL loss to Carlton. A defensive cipher. Beaten relentlessly one-on-one and gave away crucial frees. Looks a good prospect but OMG - deefence.

 

[Dyer'ere]

Here are the 2023 ND draftees who've debuted so far in 2024 -

Year​	Round​	Pick​	Now?​	Player​	Drafted to​	Games to R23 2024​
2023​	ND1​	1​	​	Harley Reid​	West Coast​	19​
2023​	ND1​	2​	​	Colby McKercher​	North Melbourne​	15​
2023​	ND1​	3​	​	Jed Walter​	Gold Coast​	13​
2023​	ND1​	4​	​	Zane Duursma​	North Melbourne​	13​
2023​	ND1​	5​	​	Nick Watson​	Hawthorn​	15​
2023​	ND1​	6​	​	Ryley Sanders​	Western Bulldogs​	14​
2023​	ND1​	7​	​	Caleb Windsor​	Melbourne​	19​
2023​	ND1​	8​	​	Daniel Curtin​	Adelaide​	6​
2023​	ND1​	9​	​	Ethan Read​	Gold Coast​	4​
2023​	ND1​	10​	​	Nate Caddy​	Essendon​	8​
2023​	ND1​	11​	​	Connor O'Sullivan​	Geelong​	1​
2023​	ND1​	13​	​	Koltyn Tholstrup​	Melbourne​	9​
2023​	ND1​	14​	​	Jake Rogers​	Gold Coast​	7​
2023​	ND1​	18​	​	Darcy Wilson​	St Kilda​	22​
2023​	ND1​	22​	​	Wil Dawson​	North Melbourne​	3​
2023​	ND1​	23​	​	Riley Hardeman​	North Melbourne​	3​
2023​	ND1​	24​	​	Caiden Cleary​	Sydney​	4​
2023​	ND1​	26​	​	Will Graham​	Gold Coast​	15​
2023​	ND1​	28​	​	Lance Collard​	St Kilda​	3​
2023​	ND1​	29​	​	Ashton Moir​	Carlton​	1​
2023​	ND2​	31​	​	Logan Morris​	Brisbane Lions​	14​
2023​	ND2​	33​	​	Angus Hastie​	St Kilda​	5​
2023​	ND2​	35​	​	Cooper Simpson​	Fremantle​	2​
2023​	ND2​	36​	​	Shaun Mannagh​	Geelong​	9​
2023​	ND2​	38​	​	Clay Hall​	West Coast​	2​
2023​	ND2​	40​	​	Kane McAuliffe​	Richmond​	9​
2023​	ND2​	44​	​	Joseph Fonti​	Greater Western Sydney​	5​
2023​	ND3​	45​	​	Joel Freijah​	Western Bulldogs​	11​
2023​	ND3​	50​	​	Hugo Garcia​	St Kilda​	8​
2023​	ND4​	54​	​	Archie Roberts​	Essendon​	3​
2023​	ND4​	56​	​	Calsher Dear​	Hawthorn​	13​
2023​	ND4​	57​	​	Will Lorenz​	Port Adelaide​	1​
2023​	ND4​	59​	​	Harvey Thomas​	Greater Western Sydney​	21​
2023​	ND5​	62​	​	Arie Schoenmaker​	St Kilda​	4​
2023​	ND5​	63​	​	Lawson Humphries​	Geelong​	7​

 

[Dyer'ere]

Will Thursfield took Zane Duursma at #4. I reckon that was certain to look like a blunder at least for a while. Shoulda taken Watson is ringing loud atm. Early doors.

Here's the thing about Duursma. He was taken on potential. More than most. He didn't always put it all together at U18 level. And was absent in periods at the Carnival. But he did some terrific things and played some outstanding games in the Teal Cup.

Yes, he can catch. But that's no way to earn a living. He can gather and he can break a line.

Taking a player like Duursma, Thursfield will be thinking he's got a goal kicking change or strike mid perhaps something like a Bontompelli or maybe more like a De Goey. Looking for more gathers and more line breaking to blossom in his game. Duursma profiled as a possible top end talent and may still be that.

If he doesn't get to the elite level the lowest success for Duursma is that he becomes a Kyle Langford. A clever #3 forward with class.

Duursma had one and only one very good game at VFL level with 25 touches, IIRC 6 Clearance and 3(?) goals. I checked the video of the game. Ruck tap clearnces in the main. But he got them. That said he often looked disengaged even at VFL level.

Took a huge hanger in the AFL. Will stand in front of any pack. (Clarko got him outta there, rightly.) But was often very quiet. Engagement in young players can be about confidence. Then buy-in. This kid did not buy in and that's belief/confidence IMO. He was 18yo all season. Just a baby.

Nobody knows even now. Next year we'll get a better idea of whether Zane Duursma can get the ball. Ground ball. Regularly.

Potential, eh. Potential.

 

[bullus_hit]

Will Thursfield took Zane Duursma at #4. I reckon that was certain to look like a blunder at least for a while. Shoulda taken Watson is ringing loud atm. Early doors.

Here's the thing about Duursma. He was taken on potential. More than most. He didn't always put it all together at U18 level. And was absent in periods at the Carnival. But he did some terrific things and played some outstanding games in the Teal Cup.

Yes, he can catch. But that's no way to earn a living. He can gather and he can break a line.

Taking a player like Duursma, Thursfield will be thinking he's got a goal kicking change or strike mid perhaps something like a Bontompelli or maybe more like a De Goey. Looking for more gathers and more line breaking to blossom in his game. Duursma profiled as a possible top end talent and may still be that.

If he doesn't get to the elite level the lowest success for Duursma is that he becomes a Kyle Langford. A clever #3 forward with class.

Duursma had one and only one very good game at VFL level with 25 touches, IIRC 6 Clearance and 3(?) goals. I checked the video of the game. Ruck tap clearnces in the main. But he got them. That said he often looked disengaged even at VFL level.

Took a huge hanger in the AFL. Will stand in front of any pack. (Clarko got him outta there, rightly.) But was often very quiet. Engagement in young players can be about confidence. Then buy-in. This kid did not buy in and that's belief/confidence IMO. He was 18yo all season. Just a baby.

Nobody knows even now. Next year we'll get a better idea of whether Zane Duursma can get the ball. Ground ball. Regularly.

Potential, eh. Potential.

I mentioned it last year in the Pre Phantom, not much separating Duursma & Morris when assessing their respective junior CV's. North should have taken a safer pick at 4, quite a large number of candidates. Now they are scrounging around the bargain bin for washed-up veterans like Jack Darling. Can't say I'm surprised, North are still clueless when it comes to list building.

 

[Dyer'ere]

I mentioned it last year in the Pre Phantom, not much separating Duursma & Morris when assessing their respective junior CV's. North should have taken a safer pick at 4, quite a large number of candidates. Now they are scrounging around the bargain bin for washed-up veterans like Jack Darling. Can't say I'm surprised, North are still clueless when it comes to list building.

That was Thursfield's first draft, wasn't it, Bully? I always had Duursma a bust risk and still do. A bust for him would be say Kyle Langford type and class.

But he just showed a few glimpses in the VFL of the glamour mid he might become. People who like the Duursma stock think he's a midfielder. I think the jury is still out. But yes, a bust risk.

IMO you take the risk. Always take the risk. Back your eye. Thursfield is a confident chap and I think he did that. We'll see how backing his eye plays out over the years. He might be one to watch. It will be very interesting to watch him tangle with Taylor right now.

 

[bullus_hit]

That was Thursfield's first draft, wasn't it, Bully? I always had Duursma a bust risk and still do. A bust for him would be say Kyle Langford type and class.

But he just showed a few glimpses in the VFL of the glamour mid he might become. People who like the Duursma stock think he's a midfielder. I think the jury is still out. But yes, a bust risk.

IMO you take the risk. Always take the risk. Back your eye. Thursfield is a confident chap and I think he did that. We'll see how backing his eye plays out over the years. He might be one to watch. It will be very interesting to watch him tangle with Taylor right now.

First draft for Clarke was a cracker and then all downhill, it's only early so best to reserve judgement but I wasn't big on his ruck selection either, time will tell on that call.

 

[Dyer'ere]

First draft for Clarke was a cracker and then all downhill, it's only early so best to reserve judgement but I wasn't big on his ruck selection either, time will tell on that call.

I'm not a Goad fan at all, Bully. But yeah, jury still out on Thursfield.