Death Penalty

[Rosy]

I'm sickened by the executions in Indonesia overnight. I see it more as a flexing or political muscle, a show of power, than a deterrent for future drug situations. I vehemently oppose the death penalty. To enforce it after 10 years after giving people the chance to rehabilitate is bizarre. The treatment of the associated families was disgusting.

This situation probably hits home because Australian citizens were involved and therefore intense media saturation. I've found the build up extremely upsetting and tried, to no avail, to avoid it.

Yes the people involved committed a heinous crime. Yes they knew the potential consequences. In a way they were used as pawns rather than nipping it in the bud.

It's a very sad day for humanity when governments legally murder people. Shame on you Indonesia. Shame.

 

[joegarra]

Totally agree Rosy. I have spent my career helping people and cannot understand anyone deciding to take away a precious gift like life. There is NO evidence that capital punishment is a deterrent. If it was then countries with capital punishment would be crime free!

 

[AMPS]

Agree with these sentiments. Life isn't as simple as some think.

 

[Tigers of Old]

I would never want the death penalty in Australia and I don't agree with it.
However I do respect the laws of another country and I have stuff all time for people who choose to deal or smuggle drugs.

 

[gutfull]

I'm sickened by the executions in Indonesia overnight. I see it more as a flexing or political muscle, a show of power, than a deterrent for future drug situations. I vehemently oppose the death penalty. To enforce it after 10 years after giving people the chance to rehabilitate is bizarre. The treatment of the associated families was disgusting.

This situation probably hits home because Australian citizens were involved and therefore intense media saturation. I've found the build up extremely upsetting and tried, to no avail, to avoid it.

Yes the people involved committed a heinous crime. Yes they knew the potential consequences. In a way they were used as pawns rather than nipping it in the bud.

It's a very sad day for humanity when governments legally murder people. Shame on you Indonesia. Shame.

Rosy well said . Im sad this happened and l hope the Australian Government have the balls to cut the aid we give them every year ....

[Edited to fix quote]

 

[Baloo]

However I do respect the laws of another country

This is where I am conflicted. I do think that people should accept the laws of foreign countries and if they break them, be prepared for the consequences.

But then I think of countries like SA where in our life time they had signs that said "No Blacks Allowed". Should we just sit back and allow it to happen ?

 

[Tigers of Old]

Rosy well said . Im sad this happened and l hope the Australian Government have the balls to cut the aid we give them every year ....

Oh yeah great idea! Lets punish the innocent victims who need this aid because a couple of idiots smuggled drugs and broke clearly stated laws in a foreign country.
All this talk of boycotting Bali etc. is madness. All it does is punish those who are innocent.

 

[Tigers of Old]

This is where I am conflicted. I do think that people should accept the laws of foreign countries and if they break them, be prepared for the consequences.

But then I think of countries like SA where in our life time they had signs that said "No Blacks Allowed". Should we just sit back and allow it to happen ?

Where's all the anger towards the United States Baloo? No one going to America? Eating their food? Watching their films?

 

[Baloo]

Where's all the anger towards the United States Baloo?

Pretty sure when I was old enough to understand what was happening, the US had already banned racial segregation. SA is the only prominent one I remember.

Edit: Oh, you mean the death penalty ? I'm not sure they execute drug smugglers.

 

[Tigers of Old]

Edit: Oh, you mean the death penalty ? I'm not sure they execute drug smugglers.

No their laws are different but we're not telling them how to run their country.

 

[Brodders17]

No their laws are different but we're not telling them how to run their country.

i think so far they have avoided killing australians in recent times. they tend to put to death uneducated black people so not really an issue we need to worry about.

i think the point the baloon boy is making is that the "their country, their laws' argument falls down pretty quickly when we disagree strongly enough with those laws.
should we ignore countries that stone women for adultery when they are raped? their laws allow it.
should we ignore countries that practice apartheid?
or that dont allow females to attend school?

i do think that the current outrage is a in part due to our love of a 'cause for the month', but that does not mean we should not respond in some way.
i do agree tho that withdrawing aid, or boycotting bali arent necessarily the right way to do it.

 

[Baloo]

I'm not telling anyone how to run their country/life/club. But I also understand those that are taking up the fight.

Sadly, to me, at one stage back their I thought Bishop had actually managed to give Indonesia a way out without losing face. Bishop and her team seemed to be doing some good work. But the second Abbott mentioned the Tsunami Aid money, that was it, he pretty much ensured that the 2 Aussies would be executed.

 

[Tigers of Old]

i think so far they have avoided killing australians in recent times. they tend to put to death uneducated black people so not really an issue we need to worry about.

Ouch. ;D
See I don't really care if these drug dealers were Australian or not. Just names and faces to me. I don't know them and don't care to.
To me the only difference to any of the other 9 (from other countries) who were executed, is the way the Australian media has turned them into martyrs by milking their life stories to tug at the heartstrings of their audience. Don't really buy into patriotism when it comes to criminals.

Sadly, to me, at one stage back their I thought Bishop had actually managed to give Indonesia a way out without losing face. Bishop and her team seemed to be doing some good work. But the second Abbott mentioned the Tsunami Aid money, that was it, he pretty much ensured that the 2 Aussies would be executed.

Agree Baloo. Ham fisted diplomacy.

 

[Rosy]

.........
To me the only difference to any of the other 9 (from other countries) who were executed, is the way the Australian media has turned them into martyrs by milking their life stories to tug at the heartstrings of their audience.

.........

I don't see how they've been made to be martyrs. They haven't willingly given their lives for a cause. They've been killed, as per the laws of the land, for a crime they committed. They obviously didn't have a lot of choice about it.

Nobody appears to be approving their crime, claiming their innocence or saying they should go unpunished. No doubt the media jumped on board but I found it too distressing to follow it. If my child stuffed up and was in this situation I'd appreciate similar help and support to prevent them being murdered. Can anyone here say they wouldn't?

Absolutely stupid for anyone to breach the laws knowing they could face the death penalty. That doesn't mean I'd ever condone such a barbaric practice.

 

[tigertim]

Ouch. ;D
See I don't really care if these drug dealers were Australian or not. Just names and faces to me. I don't know them and don't care to.
To me the only difference to any of the other 9 (from other countries) who were executed, is the way the Australian media has turned them into martyrs by milking their life stories to tug at the heartstrings of their audience. Don't really buy into patriotism when it comes to criminals.

Agree Baloo. Ham fisted diplomacy.

And i assume thenyou've been following the media in Nigeria, Brazil and the Phillipines to come to this conclusion?

And if Abbotts ham fisted diplomacy ensured the execution of the 2 Australians what ham fisted diplomacy of Nigeria, Brazil and Indonesia themselves ensured the execution of the other 7?

 

[YinnarTiger]

I would never want the death penalty in Australia and I don't agree with it.
However I do respect the laws of another country ...

Well I don't. A country that has a death penalty for any crime is a barbaric country and does not deserve respect.

 

[year of the tiger]

Ouch. ;D
See I don't really care if these drug dealers were Australian or not. Just names and faces to me. I don't know them and don't care to.
To me the only difference to any of the other 9 (from other countries) who were executed, is the way the Australian media has turned them into martyrs by milking their life stories to tug at the heartstrings of their audience. Don't really buy into patriotism when it comes to criminals.

Agree Baloo. Ham fisted diplomacy.

I agree there also

Our response to Indonesia verses America is so different it is frightening (and just ask that Hicks character)

and Rosy, I am afraid the media has turned the Aussies into martyrs - they have died for a cause (their cause is that criminals should not lose their life as punishment for their crimes)

 

[Rosy]

Time for national discussion on Foreign Death Penalty Offences: Cathy McGowan AO

April 29, 2015
Contact: Simon Crase
[email protected]

Independent Member for Indi, Cathy McGowan AO, will support the Member for Fairfax, Clive Palmer, presenting a Bill relating to Foreign Death Penalty Offences when Parliament resumes.

The execution of Australian citizens Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran in Indonesia last night prompted Ms McGowan to support Mr Palmer’s Bill.

“I have deep sympathy for the families and friends of the two men and our thoughts are with them. This issue has caused distress in communities across Australia,” Ms McGowan said.

Ms McGowan believes the Federal Government will respond in a measured and sensible way.

“I have great confidence in the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Julie Bishop, and how she will handle this situation, balancing the interests of the nation while acknowledging the distress and concern felt at this time,” she said.

Ms McGowan will second the Private Members’ Bill – Foreign Death Penalty Offences (Preventing Information Disclosure) Bill 2015 when it is presented by Mr Palmer.

“I believe the Parliament needs to discuss the scope and limitations of cooperation between Australia and countries that impose the death penalty. I am supporting this Bill because the Foreign Death Penalty Offences has significant repercussions for Australia and our citizens travelling overseas,” she said.

 

[Ian4]

so those arguing against the death penalty are against the bali bombers being executed? what about Martin Bryant? Julian Knight? Peter Dupas? Bandali Debs? these mass murdering scum deserve to be D-E-A-D dead!!!

i think the point the baloon boy is making is that the "their country, their laws' argument falls down pretty quickly when we disagree strongly enough with those laws.
should we ignore countries that stone women for adultery when they are raped? their laws allow it.
should we ignore countries that practice apartheid?
or that dont allow females to attend school?

spot on. the 'their country their laws' is a *smile* argument. you should not be executed for drug smuggling in any country full stop.

 

[gutfull]

so those arguing against the death penalty are against the bali bombers being executed? what about Martin Bryant? Julian Knight? Peter Dupas? Bandali Debs? these mass murdering scum deserve to be D-E-A-D dead!!!

spot on. the 'their country their laws' is a *smile* argument. you should not be executed for drug smuggling in any country full stop.

What a load of tripe to compare the Bali situation with the others you mentioned @!!