Economy of Effort, fullbacks and height | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Economy of Effort, fullbacks and height

Dyer'ere

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Sep 21, 2004
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Harris Andrews is 202cm. So when he wants to spoil he doesn't have to throw that much at it to get adequate air. He is less unbalanced when he has to recover because he hasn't had to overcommit to the altitude. A little spring and he's there. And this economy of effort gives him the poise when spoiling to control the ball's path. And to recover in time for a GBG or corrall.

Because he's 202cm he is effective in front position because even if he gets a nudge he has enough reach and altitude to get touch to the ball and even control it sometimes. Height compensates for lack of mass/strength. (And vice versa.)

Sam de Viking is 202cm. That didn't stop Wells from taking the 198cm Connor O'Sullivan at pick 11, trading out of Nate Caddy in doing so. O'Sullivan is a terrific prospect but he'll be helped by a growth spurt. O'Sullivan, whose groundskills (GBGs and use) are very good will be the #2 back at Geelong. Did Wells futureproof the Geelong backline?

Fullbacks like Liam Jones rely on a run up, timing and spring to get there for the spoil. But they expend a little more effort in doing so. Tom Barrass does it the same way. And in comparing vision of the two at work you'll notice that Barrass is even more off balance after the spoil than Jones. He expends even more energy than Jones to get the air. BTW IMO both these guys are good fullbacks. I like em both.

There are other measurable individual physical factors at play like running/standing leap/reach, wingspan!, and mass. Not to mention the impact of formation work and planning/structure. But nota bene, if you get a short fullback to consistently throw everything at getting air he takes a fraction or more longer to recover for the next contest.

To recruit players we have to know what they look like. My biggest pot on Clarke was that he seemed to have no idea what a footballer looks like. (The Great Eye of the Potato.)

Fullbacks are 200cm plus these days. The exceptions are 198cm and that makes it harder.

The same notion applies to rucks, BTW, who are now near 210cm. But that is for another thread.
 
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Tenacious

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May 19, 2008
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Harris Andrews is 202cm. So when he wants to spoil he doesn't have to throw that much at it to get adequate air. He is less unbalanced when he has to recover because he hasn't had to overcommit to the altitude. A little spring and he's there. And this economy of effort gives him the poise when spoiling to control the ball's path. And to recover in time for a GBG or corrall.

Because he's 202cm he is effective in front position because even if he gets a nudge he has enough reach and altitude to get touch to the ball and even control it sometimes. Height compensates for lack of mass/strength. (And vice versa.)

Sam de Viking is 202cm. That didn't stop Wells from taking the 198cm Connor O'Sullivan at pick 11, trading out of Nate Caddy in doing so. O'Sullivan is a terrific prospect but he'll be helped by a growth spurt. O'Sullivan, whose groundskills (GBGs and use) are very good will be the #2 back at Geelong. Did Wells futureproof the Geelong backline?

Fullbacks like Liam Jones rely on a run up, timing and spring to get there for the spoil. But they expend a little more effort in doing so. Tom Barrass does it the same way. And in comparing vision of the two at work you'll notice that Barrass is even more off balance after the spoil than Jones. He expends even more energy than Jones to get the air. BTW IMO both these guys are good fullbacks. I like em both.

There are other measurable individual physical factors at play like running/standing leap/reach, wingspan!, and mass. Not to mention the impact of formation work and planning/structure. But nota bene, if you get a short fullback to consistently throw everything at getting air he takes a fraction or more longer to recover for the next contest.

To recruit players we have to know what they look like. My biggest pot on Clarke was that he seemed to have no idea what a footballer looks like. (The Great Eye of the Potato.)

Fullbacks are 200cm plus these days. The exceptions are 198cm and that makes it harder.

The same notion applies to rucks, BTW, who are now near 210cm. But that is for another thread.
Good discussion
But for a buggered knee - Rancey could probably still be playing and be known as the greatest fullback ever
 
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Dyer'ere

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Sep 21, 2004
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Good discussion
But for a buggered knee - Rancey could probably still be playing and be known as the greatest fullback ever
I reckon Rance probably still is that, Tenacious.

Rance is licensed to play front of the pack because he can. RFC tried to teach this positioning and side-by-side defence (very Rance) to Balta. And it might still have worked out ok had we persevered.

I'm looking more at the on-the-shoulder defender. The Barrass rather than the McGovern. The Petty rather than the May. The Pearce rather than the Brennan Cox. The Astbury not the Rance.

Looking into the future, Stephen Wells is planning a 202cm FB Sam de Viking and a 198cm CHB O'Sullivan. We won't get another Rance. So we can just play nice and orthodox in our drafting and pick up players with the profile required for the future. Wells has shown us what he and GFC think that is.
 
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Scoop

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Dec 8, 2004
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Looking into the future, Stephen Wells is planning a 202cm FB Sam de Viking and a 198cm CHB O'Sullivan. We won't get another Rance. So we can just play nice and orthodox in our drafting and pick up players with the profile required for the future. Wells has shown us what he and GFC think that is.
I‘m going to go weird here, Dyer’ere I know your in.

Was Dodoro trying to do this with Nik Cox and Zach Reid? Reid looks like it’s happening now, Cox as a defender is as useful as a blow up guy you see at used cars yards. The method is the same as Wells. The type is the issue.

Was Dodo onto something? Is this the future? Is Gibcus the first piece?
 
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Dyer'ere

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Sep 21, 2004
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I‘m going to go weird here, Dyer’ere I know your in.

Was Dodoro trying to do this with Nik Cox and Zach Reid? Reid looks like it’s happening now, Cox as a defender is as useful as a blow up guy you see at used cars yards. The method is the same as Wells. The type is the issue.

Was Dodo onto something? Is this the future? Is Gibcus the first piece?
I think that's spot on, scoop.

We haven't had much of a look at Reid yet but he profiles beautifully. (FWIW I think he might be a FWD/RUC because of his freak hands in pack marking.)

I had Cox marked for CHB from the first time I saw him airborne. I think that's just what EFC/Dudoro thought. He's a bust but any tall who weighs 67kg at 22yo is a bust. Some blokes just don't grow/furnish. He'll never be able to hold position and he doesn't jump.

In respect of Godcus he's 20yo. And looks 85kg. To play #1 or #2 back he'll need to furnish. I've never ruled out with Gibcus that he's best suited as third man up. Zoning tall back with a unique talent for winning it back at ground level. How does he shape with a 202cm FB doing the bullocking? Better IMO. He's a better aerialist than Jake Lever and he's better at ground level. We'll have a better idea after we see him this season.
 
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eZyT

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Jun 28, 2019
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how about *smile* Gold Coast?

Ethan Read is 206, runs a sub 6 min 2km, is quick, can pick a ball up one handed at full pace,

and hit a forward on the tit with a bullet.*

he is like someone asked Artificial Intelligence to construct the perfect modern KPP.

Dimma will have watched Read train once,

and rang up Dillon to ask could they please trade Mac Andrew before round 1

* @Scoop hates him. publicly schooled beyond Melbourne city limits :cool:

Jed Walter could give Bobby Hill 10m start and run him down too.

that Walter and Read (Will Graham (who is a real goer) too) have been playing together since they were 8 year olds, two generational KPP complete freaks in one junior footy side in Queensland?

*smile* me.
 
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Dyer'ere

Licensed to kazoo
Sep 21, 2004
19,237
7,347
how about *smile* Gold Coast?

Ethan Read is 206, runs a sub 6 min 2km, is quick, can pick a ball up one handed at full pace,

and hit a forward on the tit with a bullet.*

he is like someone asked Artificial Intelligence to construct the perfect modern KPP.

Dimma will have watched Read train once,

and rang up Dillon to ask could they please trade Mac Andrew before round 1

* @Scoop hates him. publicly schooled beyond Melbourne city limits :cool:

Jed Walter could give Bobby Hill 10m start and run him down too.

that Walter and Read (Will Graham (who is a real goer) too) have been playing together since they were 8 year olds, two generational KPP complete freaks in one junior footy side in Queensland?

*smile* me.

Dogwick pushed Read behind the ball in the Escort Cup, eZ. He can see what he needs. That said, Dogwick is an anti-ruck. And so is Read. It makes sense for Read to ruck at GCS, without tapping the ball often. He's 202cm and doesn't jump high or often. But he'll destroy the current rucks at ground level and on the break. And he tackles. NB he's a midget.

FWIW I reckon Dogwick will probably play Read back at least while he develops him. The need is there and the player must play.
 

eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
21,542
26,094
Dogwick pushed Read behind the ball in the Escort Cup, eZ. He can see what he needs. That said, Dogwick is an anti-ruck. And so is Read. It makes sense for Read to ruck at GCS, without tapping the ball often. He's 202cm and doesn't jump high or often. But he'll destroy the current rucks at ground level and on the break. And he tackles. NB he's a midget.

FWIW I reckon Dogwick will probably play Read back at least while he develops him. The need is there and the player must play.

oh I thought read was 206. oops.

all those Vegemite and Cheese sangas at Palmy High must have stunted the poor kid

yeah I think Hardwick will educate him back.

Mac Andrews manager will be on the phone I reckon.
 
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