Jacob Hopper

[dougie_504]

Does anyone think we could or would or even should trade hopper next year?

And replace him with who? A pack of 19-20 year olds?

Nope. Slow though they may be, him and Taranto are essential until the next crop are mature enough.

To be honest we probably should have just retired Meatball if anything. I don't understand the sickness of wanting players to be basically stretchered into retirement once they're completely F'd and useless just because 'they deserve to decide when' etc. He had a very serviceable 2025 but is more or less finito.

 

[turk-d-tiger]

Anybody thinking that Hopper & Taranto wont be at Richmond to complete their contracts with 4 years remaining are delusional
We will have Broad , Lynch , Nank ,Vlastuin , Prestia and possibly Short all retired at the end of 2028 which would leave Hopper & Taranto as the only players above 30 with 1 year left on contracts ( that would have already bee fdront ended and playing for peanuts)
They will be the 2 players that are the experienced heads at the club

 

[tigerlove]

Anybody thinking that Hopper & Taranto wont be at Richmond to complete their contracts with 4 years remaining are delusional
We will have Broad , Lynch , Nank ,Vlastuin , Prestia and possibly Short all retired at the end of 2028 which would leave Hopper & Taranto as the only players above 30 with 1 year left on contracts ( that would have already bee fdront ended and playing for peanuts)
They will be the 2 players that are the experienced heads at the club

Yep unfortunately we let ourselves get in that position.. Only other midfield potential of age is Ross at 27yo in 2 years time. McAuliffe will have just turned 23, others 21yo and under: Lalor, Hotton, Smillie and Cumming.

 

[turk-d-tiger]

Yep unfortunately we let ourselves get in that position.. Only other midfield potential of age is Ross at 27yo in 2 years time. McAuliffe will have just turned 23, others 21yo and under: Lalor, Hotton, Smillie and Cumming.

No great issue with that imo
in 3 years time we will have players like Lalor , Hotton , Cumming , Smillie , McAuliffe , Campbell , Grlj all with 3-4-5 years under their belts and possibly 1-2 more players as free agents

 

[nikolasmia]

Anybody thinking that Hopper & Taranto wont be at Richmond to complete their contracts with 4 years remaining are delusional
We will have Broad , Lynch , Nank ,Vlastuin , Prestia and possibly Short all retired at the end of 2028 which would leave Hopper & Taranto as the only players above 30 with 1 year left on contracts ( that would have already bee fdront ended and playing for peanuts)
They will be the 2 players that are the experienced heads at the club

Hopper for sure will complete his contract, he has no trade value

Taranto will I hope stay till the end

The issue is that regardless if they stay or go, we need to give opprtunities to our young midfielders for their development

As long as Cumming Hotton Lalor Smillie MCauliff are fit, they need a proper blooding

 

[daniel30]

I was fuming when we signed them to 7 year deals for the final push for a flag Dimma and Livo and Hartley should have seen the writing on the wall anyone could very poor decision. Anyhow the past is gone time to move on Livo and Blair at least learned from it and traded the capital in 2024.

 

[tigerlove]

No great issue with that imo
in 3 years time we will have players like Lalor , Hotton , Cumming , Smillie , McAuliffe , Campbell , Grlj all with 3-4-5 years under their belts and possibly 1-2 more players as free agents

My issue is mainly getting into a position where we locked in 7 year contracts for similarly aged and type of player and stuck with them both for the full 7 years as our age bracket balance is out of whack. Ideally it would have been great to be able to trade one out for needs within the next 2 years. It is what it is, the window is at least 3-4 years away anyway imo, which is what I felt since we first traded for them. We chased another premiership at the time, gave away all our high draft picks.

 

[turk-d-tiger]

My issue is mainly getting into a position where we locked in 7 year contracts for similarly aged and type of player and stuck with them both for the full 7 years as our age bracket balance is out of whack. Ideally it would have been great to be able to trade one out for needs within the next 2 years. It is what it is, the window is at least 3-4 years away anyway imo, which is what I felt since we first traded for them. We chased another premiership at the time, gave away all our high draft picks.

Not sure what really is the issue here ?
You mention 7 years like it was a new deal but with 3 years already gone and with the benefit of hindsight of the players and leaders that have already left and retired having these 2 boys at the club around all our 18/19 year old mids is a god send in my view.
they have 4 years remaining on $750k a year each would have already been front ended in 2025 so will be playing for average salaries the remainder of the 4 years. You cant just have 18-21 year olds playing and with Prestia , lynch , broad , Nank on their last legs we will probably be the youngest & most inexperienced team going into 2027 ( which is not a great thing )

 

[tigerlove]

Not sure what really is the issue here ?
You mention 7 years like it was a new deal but with 3 years already gone and with the benefit of hindsight of the players and leaders that have already left and retired having these 2 boys at the club around all our 18/19 year old mids is a god send in my view.
they have 4 years remaining on $750k a year each would have already been front ended in 2025 so will be playing for average salaries the remainder of the 4 years. You cant just have 18-21 year olds playing and with Prestia , lynch , broad , Nank on their last legs we will probably be the youngest & most inexperienced team going into 2027 ( which is not a great thing )

The issue is having two of the same slow, two-way deficient players in the midfield. Just my view. My preference would have been originally not to trade for both but subsequently to trade one within the next year for needs but clearly that's not possible for the reason you gave about age. And yes of course we can't have our oldest midfielder at 23yo thus why I said it was unfortunate we got ourselves into this position. The money is not an issue currently but how do you know the contracts were front-ended? I couldn't find anything regarding this. That doesn't make alot of sense to me. We were still paying out big bucks when they joined. And now the salary cap is much higher than when they joined. I'd be surprised if they were front-ended but happy to see any media reports backing this up.

 

[turk-d-tiger]

The issue is having two of the same slow, two-way deficient players in the midfield. Just my view. My preference would have been originally not to trade for both but subsequently to trade one within the next year for needs but clearly that's not possible for the reason you gave about age. And yes of course we can't have our oldest midfielder at 23yo thus why I said it was unfortunate we got ourselves into this position. The money is not an issue currently but how do you know the contracts were front-ended? I couldn't find anything regarding this. That doesn't make alot of sense to me. We were still paying out big bucks when they joined. And now the salary cap is much higher than when they joined. I'd be surprised if they were front-ended but happy to see any media reports backing this up.

We got ourselves into this position because we had a dynasty team that won 3 premierships in 4 years
We needed to think beyond Dusty & Trent and Prestia but were not to know baker , bolton , Graham & Rioli would leave

We actually didnt lose anything by trading in Hopper & Taranto
Taranto has been sensational value and i would do again every day of the week and has fully justified his trade
Hopper not so much but mainly due to injuries but we compensated giving away the 1st round pick by picking up Seth as a rookie

It was the right call at the time and still not a terrible outcome with where the list sits and the leadership these boys are providing the kids. Taranto whilst not elite speed is hardly a turtle and neither is Hopper but they are inside mids and mainly at the coal face and winning the ball on their knee's.

5 on the bench allows these 2 to play in the same team and rotate with the faster mids
Like i posted earlier they are Bargain players on what is now low salaries and who knows maybe 1 will get offered more money to move in a year or 2 but i have no issue to see them complete their contracts as the would be on min salaries going foward

 

[The_General]

I think if we can balance Hopper and Taranto with some of the speed we've picked up, it'll become less of an issue having them. The problem is the lack of balance in our 22.

However you put say, Retschko and Grill/HRS on a wing (for example, there's some speed on the outside. If McAullife can get and stay fit, there's some more pace.
Then with Hotton rotating through, and Cumming, all of a sudden we're not one dimensional.

It's all about the balance. Of course, if they keep Taranto and Hopper in the midfield for 95% of our centre bounces, and we have a broken Prestia and Ross as the other 2 main mids, then it's going to be 2025 all over again - but I can't see us doing that.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

The issue is having two of the same slow, two-way deficient players in the midfield. Just my view. My preference would have been originally not to trade for both but subsequently to trade one within the next year for needs but clearly that's not possible for the reason you gave about age. And yes of course we can't have our oldest midfielder at 23yo thus why I said it was unfortunate we got ourselves into this position. The money is not an issue currently but how do you know the contracts were front-ended? I couldn't find anything regarding this. That doesn't make alot of sense to me. We were still paying out big bucks when they joined. And now the salary cap is much higher than when they joined. I'd be surprised if they were front-ended but happy to see any media reports backing this up.

The same two players were in the GWS midfield. It didn't stop them winning finals and making a Grand Final. The reasons we became uncompetitive were nothing to do with Hopper and Taranto, bar where they have missed periods injured. They haven't had the opportunity to play in a proper midfield consistently at Tigers. They have already proved they can both play midfield in a high performing team.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

The issue is having two of the same slow, two-way deficient players in the midfield. Just my view. My preference would have been originally not to trade for both but subsequently to trade one within the next year for needs but clearly that's not possible for the reason you gave about age. And yes of course we can't have our oldest midfielder at 23yo thus why I said it was unfortunate we got ourselves into this position. The money is not an issue currently but how do you know the contracts were front-ended? I couldn't find anything regarding this. That doesn't make alot of sense to me. We were still paying out big bucks when they joined. And now the salary cap is much higher than when they joined. I'd be surprised if they were front-ended but happy to see any media reports backing this up.

Someone on decent coin has to be front ended. In fact everyone on decent coin has probably been front ended to a significant extent. You can figure that out pretty easily by wishing what contracts have departed our salary cap v newly elevated contracts.

Last 2 years out went Dusty $1.5m, Lynch dropped by about $800k. Rioli $650k, Baker $550k, Bolton $1m, Graham $550k. Prestia has probably dropped by about $350k. And all the retirees like McIntosh, Grimes, Pickett, who would have been paid an average of $450k in their final seasons. Soldo probably $400k. Castagna would have to have been on similar. It is something like $7.5-$8m out of the cap. Other younger players Miller, Balta, Ross, Mansell will be elevated in that time of course, and allowing for the youngsters on $200-250k, but there would have to be a $4m surplus at least. You can carry forward around $1.8m. But there has to be around $2.5m at least devoted to front ending some of the bigger contracts. And there are very few of those. Balta, Hopper, Taranto and that is it.

So they have to be front ended, nothing else would make any sense.

 

[BillyJean17]

I was fuming when we signed them to 7 year deals for the final push for a flag Dimma and Livo and Hartley should have seen the writing on the wall anyone could very poor decision. Anyhow the past is gone time to move on Livo and Blair at least learned from it and traded the capital in 2024.

The biggest mistake was to get both as they were not dissimilar, TT superior as he can kick goals . I’m comfortable where we re at with these two a big role to play in shouldering a heavy load , adding some pace around these guys will sharpen us up no end

 

[toothless]

Taranto -> pick 12 (Elijah Hewett) & pick 19 (Max Gruzewski)

Hopper, pick 53 (Kaleb Smith), & pick 63 (Steely Green) -> pick 31 (Toby McMullin) & Adelaide's future first (pick 12 Dan Curtin)

 

[turk-d-tiger]

Someone on decent coin has to be front ended. In fact everyone on decent coin has probably been front ended to a significant extent. You can figure that out pretty easily by wishing what contracts have departed our salary cap v newly elevated contracts.

Last 2 years out went Dusty $1.5m, Lynch dropped by about $800k. Rioli $650k, Baker $550k, Bolton $1m, Graham $550k. Prestia has probably dropped by about $350k. And all the retirees like McIntosh, Grimes, Pickett, who would have been paid an average of $450k in their final seasons. Soldo probably $400k. Castagna would have to have been on similar. It is something like $7.5-$8m out of the cap. Other younger players Miller, Balta, Ross, Mansell will be elevated in that time of course, and allowing for the youngsters on $200-250k, but there would have to be a $4m surplus at least. You can carry forward around $1.8m. But there has to be around $2.5m at least devoted to front ending some of the bigger contracts. And there are very few of those. Balta, Hopper, Taranto and that is it.

So they have to be front ended, nothing else would make any sense.

My opinion is we have front loaded the crap out of Taranto , Hopper , Balta , Short & Vlastuin in 2025 as well as banking 5% cap space
By my calculations based on what i believe the current players would have been paid we would of had atleast $5,000,000 to even meet the cap floor of 95%.
We had Shai $1.2 mil , Rioli $750k , Graham $600k , Baker $800k all still contracted or offered contracts to stay as well as losing Pickett , Dusty , grimes ontop of Riewoldt & Cotchin the year before . We probably paid Ben Miller overs to extend by 1 year just to meet the min cap.

Post 2026 we will have the biggest war chest ever seen in the AFL but unfortunately there really is not a great deal of free agents that suit our list apart from Sam Walsh & Butters which are impossible to get imo

 

[dougie_504]

My issue is mainly getting into a position where we locked in 7 year contracts for similarly aged and type of player and stuck with them both for the full 7 years as our age bracket balance is out of whack. Ideally it would have been great to be able to trade one out for needs within the next 2 years. It is what it is, the window is at least 3-4 years away anyway imo, which is what I felt since we first traded for them. We chased another premiership at the time, gave away all our high draft picks.

I agree that 7 years was too many.

But we can also look at this another way.

We have two reasonably affordable players ($700k/year now isn't a 'big' contract) and they can both play inside mid as mature bodies while the younger kids develop. It's a problem solved.

Not the problem they were recruited to solve...but a problem solved nonetheless.

 

[Harry]

He's good value with faster players around him that can receive and run. He's low value if he handballs to Taranto and Ross.

 

[turk-d-tiger]

I agree that 7 years was too many.

But we can also look at this another way.

We have two reasonably affordable players ($700k/year now isn't a 'big' contract) and they can both play inside mid as mature bodies while the younger kids develop. It's a problem solved.

Not the problem they were recruited to solve...but a problem solved nonetheless.

Why was 7 years too many for a player you want to bring into your club as a 26 year old that will play his last year as a 32 year old ?
these 2 players were in the perfect age group to get 7 year deals

 

[dougie_504]

Why was 7 years too many for a player you want to bring into your club as a 26 year old that will play his last year as a 32 year old ?
these 2 players were in the perfect age group to get 7 year deals

I probably should have said that softer.

To be clear, I think 7 years was just a bit much, and maybe we should have aimed to bring them on marginally shorter contracts ie 5-6 years.

For all we know that extra 1-2 years was the difference between us and Cats for Hopper but if possible it would always be ideal to have someone a bit injury-prone on a shorter contract.

Realistically he may end up extending if he's still playing well tbh,