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Leaving Neverland.

ninjahaha

Sponsored by Takeda Pharmaceutical
Feb 22, 2014
2,499
1
the shadows
glantone said:
...wonder to what depth people who enjoyed MJ's music are grappling with this in the sense that do they still love his music, see it diminished in some way or simply binned it? Is it possible to still love the music despite the man?
Sorta like god and catholics.

I know speaking for myself that I'm embarrassed that tige's had pell on our ticket! But my faith in the RFC is as strong as ever!

Pop music and the church are easy to let go!



But these vile perpetrators need to be held to account. Dead or alive!



Environments that exist, casting the shadows that allow these crimes to occur need to be eliminated! Institutions that protect their reputations need also to be held to account!
 

glantone

dog at the footy, punt rd end
Jun 5, 2007
1,066
5
Yeah, to deny decades of child rape just to safeguard an idea….. that the church is good. The catholic church and Pell will have their defenders no matter what debased crimes are indulged in. The all conquering magic spell of faith.

… the thing with Michael Jackson is I can’t listen to his music without visualizing him singing and dancing because his music and videos were part of my musical experience as I grew up. Never a follower but I admired his talent. But for me pedophilia and rape trumps talent..and art. So I just can't dig the guy at all.

Haven't seen the doco but here's an interesting article from The Atlantic.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/03/listening-michael-jackson-after-leaving-neverland/585295/
 

Tigers of Old

Twitter: @Tigers_of_Old
Jul 26, 2004
64,164
1,086
Just don't get how you can hang a dead person for a crime that they don't have a chance to defend themselves against.
Jackson had his day in court & was found not guilty. A documentary years later is not a court of law. It's a one sided view of what happened for entertainment purposes.
Old, well worn territory that didn't really shine any new light. It's time to move on.
 

spook

It is only the intellectually lost who ever argue.
Jun 18, 2007
11,059
1,156
Maybe his victims needed to finally speak out in order to move on. No doubt he was a pedo, not a doubt in the world, but I still love his music.
 

Tigers of Old

Twitter: @Tigers_of_Old
Jul 26, 2004
64,164
1,086
spook said:
Maybe his victims needed to finally speak out in order to move on. No doubt he was a pedo, not a doubt in the world, but I still love his music.
That's opinion spook, of course there is some doubt. Otherwise why have a court of law?
 

spook

It is only the intellectually lost who ever argue.
Jun 18, 2007
11,059
1,156
Tigers of Old said:
That's opinion spook, of course there is some doubt. Otherwise why have a court of law?
Watch the doco, read the articles. You will have no doubt. He did it.
 

LeeToRainesToRoach

Get out Gillon
Jun 4, 2006
23,675
899
Melbourne
Never cared much for his music and dismissed him as a celebrity weirdo, however "I lied then but I'm telling the truth now!" carries no weight whatsoever IMO. Much stronger evidence is required than a few salacious stories that a certain demographic will lap up. I guess they figure they're not hurting him, since he's not around to defend himself.

Stop living off the man's back and get a life of your own FFS.
 

MD Jazz

Tiger Champion
Feb 3, 2017
3,791
454
LeeToRainesToRoach said:
Never cared much for his music and dismissed him as a celebrity weirdo, however "I lied then but I'm telling the truth now!" carries no weight whatsoever IMO. Much stronger evidence is required than a few salacious stories that a certain demographic will lap up. I guess they figure they're not hurting him, since he's not around to defend himself.

Stop living off the man's back and get a life of your own FFS.
He likely had them on their backs for a while. And their fronts.
 

tigerdell

Hope springs infernal
Mar 29, 2014
861
129
And Lee2R2R with all fair respect what you said is completely dismissive to people who were abused when vulnerable.
The experts suggest that victims, esp from child abuse, struggle to separate from the abuser.
They have been conditioned by the perp to blame themselves and to protect the perp. So its not uncommon to deny anything is happening.
It seems also (from a pop psychology viewpoint) to protect yourself - this isnt real.
Similar to stockholm syndrome. These kids adored him. And the whole world adored him, so they wouldve learnt to shut the FU. But it aint right.

And always the point about this abuse is that it seriously fxxxs with people their whole lives.
its not a case of moving on with their lives.
There should never be a statute of limitations or equivalent.
You do it, or enable / shield those doing it, then you have no right to say its in the past.


Lee this isnt an attack at you, I do see where you are coming from regarding the damage to a person's reputation on the basis of he said she said.
But with Jackson there is far too much smoke. Similar to the churches, there is money to protect.
 

LeeToRainesToRoach

Get out Gillon
Jun 4, 2006
23,675
899
Melbourne
tigerdell said:
Lee this isnt an attack at you, I do see where you are coming from regarding the damage to a person's reputation on the basis of he said she said.
But with Jackson there is far too much smoke. Similar to the churches, there is money to protect.
I just want to see more evidence than someone’s say-so years down the track before condemning people. These are very serious allegations, but some people who claim to have been abducted by aliens seem terribly sincere also.

Surely one of his bodyguards would’ve walked in on him at some stage. Just give me some corroboration.
 

tigerdell

Hope springs infernal
Mar 29, 2014
861
129
Agree with the sentiment for more than hearsay.
Disagree that these kids should move on, shut up etc.

Think it would come down to circumstantial evidence - bells on doors and repeated behaviours. The are strong comparisons to jimmy saville and the institutional blindness.

Anyway im done talking about a dead pervert /probable abuser when i dont care for his music/legacy
 

spook

It is only the intellectually lost who ever argue.
Jun 18, 2007
11,059
1,156
LeeToRainesToRoach said:
I just want to see more evidence than someone’s say-so years down the track before condemning people. These are very serious allegations, but some people who claim to have been abducted by aliens seem terribly sincere also.

Surely one of his bodyguards would’ve walked in on him at some stage. Just give me some corroboration.
What about his housekeeper? What about the kid who described exactly what Jackson's dick looked like with the vitilago?

There's evidence. Watch the doco.