New Rules | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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New Rules

Harry

Tiger Legend
Mar 2, 2003
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I'd like to see the stats on turnovers and intercepts and a heat map of where they are occurring on the ground compared to previous years.
 

HKTigerB

Tiger Cub
Jun 24, 2019
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@TBR - I hear you but I did see the behind the goal vision. It included Hawthorn, North, Melb, Ess and us. The Bulldogs vs Port Adelaide game Round 23 showcased it perfectly. Everybody floods/folds back. You get a release kick to halfback and then to defensive side of wing and then stop and prop as you have no one to kick to. As the fold back is deeper, fewer options appear and when a turnover occurs it is shallow. So play between the arcs and heatmaps may look similar. But they'll be edging 25 to 40 meters higher up the ground. Which may not be fully discernible. in the maps.

Ohh and given that commentators linked to other clubs (St Kilda and Bulldogs) used the same terminology, namely: Foldback, pocket play and one or two others then I would argue it's not just Dimma.

There were a couple of defensive patterns he showed (video) that are immediately identifiable now that he's walked us through them. There's some variations that came across as a level of RFC IP so I won't reveal too much. But I can see the Bulldogs, Port and even Geelong apply the same "process".
 
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DavidSSS

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Dec 11, 2017
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Looking at those heat maps it is clear both teams are playing closer to the goals. What that tells me is that defence has moved closer to opposition goals and that will mean more congestion because the closer to goal you are the narrower the ground.

We used to be great at defending the kick out of our half forward, but if the opposition can get a mark or free they can now switch easier. What this means is that all teams have to defend closer to goal where everything is more congested.

No wonder scoring is down.

DS
 
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HKTigerB

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Jun 24, 2019
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Looking at those heat maps it is clear both teams are playing closer to the goals. What that tells me is that defence has moved closer to opposition goals and that will mean more congestion because the closer to goal you are the narrower the ground.

We used to be great at defending the kick out of our half forward, but if the opposition can get a mark or free they can now switch easier. What this means is that all teams have to defend closer to goal where everything is more congested.

No wonder scoring is down.

DS
Perfectly summarised. Unintended consequences..... was the term used. I'd argue, total and utter incompetence.
 

DavidSSS

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Possibly the ability to more easily go at 45degrees means finding space is now easier in the wider parts of the ground. This forces congestion to the narrow parts near the goals.

DS
 
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HKTigerB

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Jun 24, 2019
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The part I can't follow though is how the stand rule causes that?
The explanation didn't just blame the stand rule. A combination of the stand and the 30 metre run out of the goal square meant that the ball came out further from full back. You could choose to defend or fold back. Defending left you exposed out the back. So most sides just fold back. Definitely the 4 or 5 he showed video of all did, I think he said 11 of the 18 sides just fold back, it was definitely over 10. Also if a side successfully chips via "8 metre" (actual quote) kicks to just the defensive side of the wing then basically all sides fold back. Even we do. He doesn't want us to foldback but there is no option.

This is where our biggest defensive weakness arises. If you foldback too deep you open a "pocket" about 5 to 10 metres beyond the man on the mark and just to the right or the left. A little "8 metre" chip kick and you give up a shot at goal. We did not defend the "pocket" well at all during the season, Something we can fix but something that needs a pre-season or 7 or 8 day breaks between games so you can run a learning training session. Something we had too little of this year,
 
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DavidSSS

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Yeah, the kick out from behinds is also a horrible rule, bring the man on the mark back closer, the balance is all wrong on that rule, it gets out to the wing too easily.

DS
 
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MD Jazz

Nuance is hard to find
Feb 3, 2017
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Possibly the ability to more easily go at 45degrees means finding space is now easier in the wider parts of the ground. This forces congestion to the narrow parts near the goals.

DS
Ultimately the player with the ball in defence has more options/less pressure when the man on the mark cannot move.
 
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LeeToRainesToRoach

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Jun 4, 2006
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The Stand Rule still gives me the irrits, it's embarrassing and hasn't resulted in higher scores, in fact the opposite has happened.
Week 1 has this year’s finals series on track to be the lowest-scoring since 1964, and possibly before. Third- and fourth-highest scoring teams eliminated.
 
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Harry

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Mar 2, 2003
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The stand rule was aimed at opening up play to reduce congestion around the ground and increase ball movement and scoring. What it's done is moved the congestion into the defensive 50s and choked goal scoring even more. Some of us actually called this at the beginning of the season
 
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tigerhalsey

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Jul 28, 2007
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The flood is back, next thing they bring it they must have a min of 4 players in your forward 50 at all times.
You could hear it from Hardwick in every press conference this year, we could not get any easy goals because our forward line was packed with every single entry.
 
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frickenel

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Jul 30, 2003
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The pure insanity of this whole situaton is that this rule attacks the Richmond style, the very style that was killing off the flood.

We as suporters should be hammering talk back about the fact this rule has destroyed the system that was giving us back higher scoring attacking football, while still giving the adrenalin rush of watching your team gang tackle an opposition into submission.

The solution for opposition teams was simple. Adapt or die, beat us at our own game. Unfortunately clueless coaches didn't adapt.

Chris Scott used the same failing tactic to try to control ball movement and was wiped off the park in 2017, 2019 and 2020
Nathan Buckley, John Longmire and others simply employed the flood. Buckley was lucky to get away with a draw, but this style against a forward half pressure side simply means the ball lives in the oppositions forward line.

We defend hard but we attack hard. The answer was simple. Adapt and take us on or die.

But then along came Steve Hocking!

And if you're not sur eabout the 'agenda', ask yourself how extending the kick out helps scoring? It's a rule that allows the opposition to move the ball easily away from he scoring zone into the middle of the ground, way way away from the scoring zone. Not sure how that helps scoring!

The media has to be brough to task on whats going on, and stop being the political mouth piece of the AFL boys club. THat will only happen with robust debate in the public forum from supporters. After all, it's our money that holds the game up.
 
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DavidSSS

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Dec 11, 2017
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The stand rule was aimed at opening up play to reduce congestion around the ground and increase ball movement and scoring. What it's done is moved the congestion into the defensive 50s and choked goal scoring even more. Some of us actually called this at the beginning of the season
The flood is back, next thing they bring it they must have a min of 4 players in your forward 50 at all times.
You could hear it from Hardwick in every press conference this year, we could not get any easy goals because our forward line was packed with every single entry.

When you look at it, the impact of the new rules is to make it easier to move through the centre of the ground. If you are a coach and notice this what are you going to do: the flood is clearly the logical response and we end up with the mess we have now.

As Frickenel points out above, what this takes away is the ability to attack hard because it makes it too risky.

They have to get rid of these stupid rules.

DS
 
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Harry

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Mar 2, 2003
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The pure insanity of this whole situaton is that this rule attacks the Richmond style, the very style that was killing off the flood.

We as suporters should be hammering talk back about the fact this rule has destroyed the system that was giving us back higher scoring attacking football, while still giving the adrenalin rush of watching your team gang tackle an opposition into submission.

The solution for opposition teams was simple. Adapt or die, beat us at our own game. Unfortunately clueless coaches didn't adapt.

Chris Scott used the same failing tactic to try to control ball movement and was wiped off the park in 2017, 2019 and 2020
Nathan Buckley, John Longmire and others simply employed the flood. Buckley was lucky to get away with a draw, but this style against a forward half pressure side simply means the ball lives in the oppositions forward line.

We defend hard but we attack hard. The answer was simple. Adapt and take us on or die.

But then along came Steve Hocking!

And if you're not sur eabout the 'agenda', ask yourself how extending the kick out helps scoring? It's a rule that allows the opposition to move the ball easily away from he scoring zone into the middle of the ground, way way away from the scoring zone. Not sure how that helps scoring!

The media has to be brough to task on whats going on, and stop being the political mouth piece of the AFL boys club. THat will only happen with robust debate in the public forum from supporters. After all, it's our money that holds the game up.
good post far canal. It's laughable how the AFL and the sycophant media had weekly "state of the game" discussions when we were playing a high tempo attacking exciting brand of football, yet are deadly silent now when it's in a much worse state and scoring keeps dropping.
 
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Harry

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Thank you shocking for ruining our game. What a *smile* snorefest final we are witnessing.
 
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frickenel

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Jul 30, 2003
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If we go into 2022 with these rules the Coleman medallist will have less than 45 goals to his name.

I'm guessing that 2/3rds of goals kicked by the spearheads, were kicked in the first half of the season before teams started to adjust and just flood back.

God help how low the average team scores will be.
 
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DavidSSS

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Dec 11, 2017
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So, 8 rounds in and what's happening with the new rules?

Firstly, and I think this needs to just be a standard statement when discussing rules - get rid of the Stand rule, it looks stupid, it is stupid, it is a farce, it is umpired differently every 30 seconds, and it looks stupid.

Ok, the obvious has been stated, let's get on with it.

Not a lot of change as yet:
Possessions per game still seem to be falling, going back to about 2013 level at 712 per game. Worth remembering that it only got to 700 per game back in 2008 so a drop is slightly surprising but you wonder how many possessions we can have per game. I figure it has risen over time with fitter players but there must be a limit.
No big change in the percentage of possessions which are contested, was higher back in the early 2000s. Data doesn't go back far enough to see what it was like decades ago.
Contested marks as a percentage of total marks dropped after the early 2000, rose a bit around 2010 and is back down. More short passing maybe? Could reflect the way teams are constantly trying to find space these days.
Free kicks at 44 per game is up a fair bit, hasn't been over 40 since 2018 and then it was 41 per game.
Scoring shots per inside 50 remains at 0.43, same as 2021, reflects that the game is still more defensive as this was around 0.5 or higher until 2013.

But, what is very interesting is the scoring, it is all over the place, average for each round:
Rd1: 87.94
Rd2: 81.56
Rd3: 84.67
Rd4: 80.50
Rd5: 89.17
Rd6: 80.39
Rd7: 85.50
Rd8: 77.50

Very variable, average is 83.4 so far. We'll see what happens!

Also of note is the average margin per game, this was 30.1 in 2021 and 30 in 2019, for 2022:
Rd1: 23.67
Rd2: 27.11
Rd3: 31.11
Rd4: 26.78
Rd5: 34.78
Rd6: 35.89
Rd7: 34.78
Rd8: 41.89

32 is the average so far for 2022, but it doesn't get over 40 for a season very often and up near 42 is very high and the trend looks to be up. Lots of blowouts happening at the moment which you would expect less of with equalisation, but there are a couple of very badly performing teams at the moment and while WCE have disruptions you have to ask what North's excuse is.

12 rounds to go to see where all of this ends up.

DS
 
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