Poll: East West Link | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Poll: East West Link

Should it be Dumped?


  • Total voters
    71

Ian4

BIN MAN!
May 6, 2004
22,210
4,747
Melbourne
you know tha arguments. second east-west crossing. business case being hidden. Andrews to abide by the decision of the high court. the Govt / Linking Melbourne Authority talking about a $500 million kill fees. should it be taken to the election?

discuss.
 

K3

Tiger Legend
Oct 9, 2006
5,245
1,004
I certainly think it is big enough to require taking to the election. It would also be nice if Labor decided upon a stand and stuck to it for more than a few months.

At $1,000,000 per metre of custruction, this is going to really put us in some financial pain, ala the 'not so' superly awesome desal plant that hasn't supplied a drop of water yet, which still has years to run on the contract to pay Degremont & Co.
 

Brodders17

Tiger Legend
Mar 21, 2008
17,785
11,937
i think ultimately some sort of link between city link and the eastern freeway is needed.
but it probably wont actually solve anything as evidenced by the gridlock on the south eastern.

I would much prefer similar investment levels to made to public transport which is the only hope Melbourne has of reversing current gridlock and of halting its increase.

and to your question, im not really a fan of the idea of individual policies being taken to an election. what does it mean for someone who does not like any other Liberal policies but wants the east/west link? or vice versa. for better or worse our current system allows the government of the day to make these sorts of decisions.
 

Ian4

BIN MAN!
May 6, 2004
22,210
4,747
Melbourne
Brodders17 said:
i think ultimately some sort of link between city link and the eastern freeway is needed.

the EW link will bring more cars to inner melboure. if you're going to build a new road, a better idea would be to build the missing ring road section between ringwood and greensborough.

Brodders17 said:
and to your question, im not really a fan of the idea of individual policies being taken to an election. what does it mean for someone who does not like any other Liberal policies but wants the east/west link? or vice versa. for better or worse our current system allows the government of the day to make these sorts of decisions.

fair point, but like it or not infrastructure (especially roads v public transport) is likely to be the biggest issue (or one of the biggest) at this election.
 

martyshire

^^ Jack Graham that is
Aug 11, 2007
1,664
8
Rowville...or maybe London
My view is all three groups holding us to ransom are being irresponsible but the libs shouldn't be signing contracts in the first place. We are yet to see a comprehensive business case for the tunnel so I can't see how we can confidently say it will be worth the investment. Anyone that believes otherwise can only being making an ideological/theoretical judgement IMO.

Ideological judgements are fine for most people most of the time, where they decide their views in reference to others (i.e. I'm a bit left of Bob and he believes X so I believe Y) but in this case 'Bob' doesn't even know what's going on. The fact there is no business case seems so dodgy.
 

K3

Tiger Legend
Oct 9, 2006
5,245
1,004
Brodders17 said:
i think ultimately some sort of link between city link and the eastern freeway is needed.
but it probably wont actually solve anything as evidenced by the gridlock on the south eastern.

I would much prefer similar investment levels to made to public transport which is the only hope Melbourne has of reversing current gridlock and of halting its increase.

and to your question, im not really a fan of the idea of individual policies being taken to an election. what does it mean for someone who does not like any other Liberal policies but wants the east/west link? or vice versa. for better or worse our current system allows the government of the day to make these sorts of decisions.

As much as I hate to say it... I have to agree. It is a shame the Govt doesn't put processes in place to ensure that such an overwhelmingly 'out of favour with the electorate' decision, won't be made.
 

Brodders17

Tiger Legend
Mar 21, 2008
17,785
11,937
Ian4 said:
the EW link will bring more cars to inner melboure. if you're going to build a new road, a better idea would be to build the missing ring road section between ringwood and greensborough.

ringwood? greensborough? who the hell wants to go near these outposts? ;D

the EW link will undoubtedly bring more traffic and will undoubtedly end up moving at snails pace like the SE freeway, but i at the moment there is a freeway to nowhere bringing cars into the (or at least near the) city.

as said i think there are other priorities and making big investment into public transport is the only thing that can stop increased congestion right across the city, but at some stage a link like the proposed tunnel is probably needed.
 

Ian4

BIN MAN!
May 6, 2004
22,210
4,747
Melbourne
Brodders17 said:
as said i think there are other priorities and making big investment into public transport is the only thing that can stop increased congestion right across the city, but at some stage a link like the proposed tunnel is probably needed.

i'm a strong advocate of the 'trains not tolls' campaign and i support the court challenge my local council (moreland) has taken up, but even i concede that a road that links up the eastern freeway with the airport (be it the EW tunnel or the ringwood-greensborough ring road) should be built at some point... but fixing public transport (primarily building the metro rail tunnel) must come first IMO.
 

KnightersRevenge

Baby Knighters is 7!! WTF??
Aug 21, 2007
6,787
1,229
Ireland
Ian4 said:
i'm a strong advocate of the 'trains not tolls' campaign and i support the court challenge my local council (moreland) has taken up, but even i concede that a road that links up the eastern freeway with the airport (be it the EW tunnel or the ringwood-greensborough ring road) should be built at some point... but fixing public transport (primarily building the metro rail tunnel) must come first IMO.

Yup. I am at a loss to understand the absolute and complete rejection of public transort infrastructure by successive State Governments. I get that the cost looks prohibitive when taken as a lump but surely as the managers of the States' progress they can see that it has to be done and putting it off only increases the eventual cost. Same goes for intra and inter state services. All the talk of creating jobs in regional centers is pointless unless you improve the attractiveness by providing fast easy access between those centres and the major cities. Roads just can't do that.
 

JAM

Tiger Cub
Aug 11, 2014
57
0
Another great article by Kenneth Davidson

http://m.theage.com.au/comment/have-we-really-dodged-the-east-west-link-bullet-20140926-10mibq.html
 

Ian4

BIN MAN!
May 6, 2004
22,210
4,747
Melbourne
JAM said:
Another great article by Kenneth Davidson

http://m.theage.com.au/comment/have-we-really-dodged-the-east-west-link-bullet-20140926-10mibq.html

i read it this morning and thought it was excellent.
 

K3

Tiger Legend
Oct 9, 2006
5,245
1,004
JAM said:
Another great article by Kenneth Davidson

http://m.theage.com.au/comment/have-we-really-dodged-the-east-west-link-bullet-20140926-10mibq.html

He is a really nice guy too. Hopefully he keeps writing for some time to come!
 

Ian4

BIN MAN!
May 6, 2004
22,210
4,747
Melbourne
napthine could not sign that contract quick enough... its as if he thinks the EW link is his best chance of winning the election. maybe the libs genuinely think it is, but everything about it smacks of desperation for mine
 

K3

Tiger Legend
Oct 9, 2006
5,245
1,004
The complete balls-up handling of the EW tunnel project is shining through brighter and brighter. What planet to these polies come from?


East West Link to need large power switching station in Royal Park area
Date September 30, 2014
Josh Gordon, Clay Lucas

Building and operating the East West Link will consume so much electricity that the government is planning a "large" new power switching station for the Royal Park area.

Raising further questions about the government's determination to lock the project in before the November 29 election, The Age can reveal tunnelling for the East-West Link will not start for more than a year-and-a-half, with the project lacking the power supply needed to drive the massive boring machines.

A Linking Melbourne Authority briefing document warns "substantial augmentation" of the power supply will be needed to build and operate the road, including a "large" power switching station "in the Royal Park area".

"The amount of power required to service the tunnel-boring machine is higher than the current network can provide and accordingly special arrangements need to be put in place," the briefing says.

"Substantial augmentation is required to the CitiPower and SP Ausnet network to provide the power requirement … during construction and ongoing operation of the new tunnel."

The memorandum, written for the authority's chief executive, Ken Mathers, identifies the power supply problem as being one of three "long lead" issues "critical to the timely delivery" of the road.

The document, signed by Mr Mathers in April this year, warns various upgrades to boost the network could take up to a year-and-a-half to complete.

"This process requires an approximate lead time of up to 12 to 18 months, with six months required for the design process and a further six to 12 months required for the build."

The latest revelations raise questions about the government's claim that contracts must be signed before the November 29 election so that work can begin immediately.

A spokeswoman for Roads Minister Terry Mulder said there was no risk of delay to the project.

"The tunnel-boring machines will not start working until 20 months after the project has started," she said. "They will be ordered and manufactured specifically for the East West Link tunnels before this happens."

The need for a temporary and permanent power supply for the construction and operation of the tunnel was raised by all three of the consortiums bidding to build the project.

A spokeswoman for CitiPower confirmed an upgrade of the network would be required, describing the discussion with the government as "preliminary".

"As with any major project of this size CitiPower has had preliminary discussions with interested consortiums and those discussions are continuing with the selected consortium," the spokeswoman said.

A spokesman for Ausnet Services (formerly SP Ausnet) also confirmed discussions were underway to provide suitable options.

So far there does not appear to have been any public discussion about the need for a large new switching station in the Royal Park area.

Professionals Australia, which represents thousands of engineers, has warned the project is being rushed for political purposes.

Its spokesman, Bede Payne, said the memo highlighted the problems that had arisen with the Napthine government's "complete lack of transparency".

Mr Payne said engineers had concerns about the project from its inception.

"They are concerned that politicians are in a ribbon-cutting frenzy and are ignoring technical advice. They are concerned that the community is in the dark," Mr Payne said.



Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/east-west-link-to-need-large-power-switching-station-in-royal-park-area-20140929-10m5rj.html#ixzz3El7we6yQ
 

pahoffm

No one player is bigger than the club.
Mar 24, 2004
21,145
1
I remember the same "hoo-ha" when the Eastern Freeway was built.
Now it is an important arterial link.

No doubt that the city needs an alternative East West Link besides the Monash / Westgate.
Just hope those who are affected are sufficiently compensated!

Hope the north east section of the metropolitan ring is completed in the next few years.
Until then, Eastlink will always run under capacity.
 

Ian4

BIN MAN!
May 6, 2004
22,210
4,747
Melbourne
K3 said:
Professionals Australia, which represents thousands of engineers, has warned the project is being rushed for political purposes.

Its spokesman, Bede Payne, said the memo highlighted the problems that had arisen with the Napthine government's "complete lack of transparency".

whether you're for or against the EW link, i don't think anyone can deny this (apart from the LNP and murdoch media of course).
 

Sintiger

Tiger Legend
Aug 11, 2010
18,465
18,273
Camberwell
I really don't know if I think the east-west link is a good idea or not but I do know that the reasons given by the Napthine Government for signing the contracts now are garbage.
It has nothing to do with transport and all to do with politics. The only effect of not signing the contracts now if they win the election is a 2 month delay. If they lose then the Labor Party has earned the right to make the decision.
What will happen if they lose is that the Feds will withdraw the commonwealth funding for anything else that the new Government puts forward in it's place because they will play politics and want the Labor Party to be blamed.
Such is politics in Australia now.
 

pahoffm

No one player is bigger than the club.
Mar 24, 2004
21,145
1
Another argument for EastWestLink today.
Citylink to the Monash is completely blocked this evening, no cars getting through.
Footscray Road around Etihad is completely blocked up too.

All the cars going around the Ring Road from north to south have nowhere else to go.
If the north east section of the Ring Road was complete, cars going from north to south could use EastLink instead.

That's how quickly we are falling behind in both our road transport.

My guess is that our public transport may be even further behind.
 

1eyedtiger

Tiger Superstar
Jun 2, 2007
1,132
1
Just the latest example of why I believe we live in what I describe as an 'elected dictatorship'

Major projects like this should always be decided at election via a specific question on the voting form and whoever wins should be legally bound by it.