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IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
Talking Politics
- Thread starter Legends of 2017
- Start date
mld said:
Yeah, the only way you could do it would be to "amalgamate" them into the relevant Federal department and then cull them through "natural attrition" and sneaky redundancies. Still worth doing.
Of course the spineless Aussie public would never go for it in a referendum where you need a majority of voters in a majority of states.
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/healthcare-why-tony-abbott-wants-to-charge-a-fee-for-visiting-bulkbilling-doctors-20131229-301nv.html
Could this be the beginning of the end for Medicare? I guess it was always in the conservative cross-hairs but it's also been political poison for wannabe reformists. I just hope we don't gravitate to an American system, particularly with an aging population. This also spells more trouble for the states as they grapple with increased demand for their 'free' GP services.
Could this be the beginning of the end for Medicare? I guess it was always in the conservative cross-hairs but it's also been political poison for wannabe reformists. I just hope we don't gravitate to an American system, particularly with an aging population. This also spells more trouble for the states as they grapple with increased demand for their 'free' GP services.
Giardiasis said:
interesting point. i (like most i'm sure) am all for abolishing 1 level of govt and abolishing state govts seems appears to be the obvious one to go... but this could also create a situation where some places are more disadvangated than others in regards to things like infrastructure funding... and they have less representatives that are willing and able to fight for them. i struggle to see how it work work unfortunately.
bullus_hit said:
can't believe i'm saying this, but i'm not completely against this. there are so many people who see the doctor unnecessarily and i can see how this would reduce waiting times (plus add a some extra revenue to govt coffers). the problem is that i don't trust abbott and its more likely to be the start of someting a lot more sinister (ie. dumping medicare altogether).
Ian4 said:
No doubt there's fat in the system, and with a swelling population something needs to give. What concerns me most is the switch in burden from a national level to a state level. For me, it would need to be a uniform situation, as it stands now, bulk billing GP's who continue to practice with state rebates will be swamped. If the level of care and attention was questionable now, it can only get worse.
As for Abbott's motives on the topic of Medicare, he's got privatisation in his DNA, he's Thatcher & Howard rolled into one. The only welfare Tony digs is paying up to 75k for maternity leave, a move which seems at odds with the slash & burn approach he's taken to date, and one which he may well have to shelve in the not too distant future.
Ian4 said:
any fee for service hits those who can least afford it. those who can least afford it also have poorer levels of health than the general population. discouraging them from accessing health services could have a negative effect.
Brodders17 said:
Agree - don't want to end up like the U.S. where the average punter has no health care!
Giardiasis said:
it isnt ideology that i have issue with. it is when ideology blinds people to realities.
doing away with a fed gov leads to separate nations. do you think the NT would prosper? or Tassie or SA? would people need a visa to cross a border? would people who live near a border be able to access services from across it? who would pay? who would play England for the Ashes?
these are just some of the questions that would need to be considered.
I hope the much aired $5 charge for a citizen to see their doctor is the first in a wedge of many more changes to Middle Class Welfare.
Don't take what I just said out of context - those that cannot afford the doctor under the scheme deserve government support for their health services. No argument from me.
But we have far too many middle and upper class families and singles who quite bluntly get spoon fed by the government (any incumbent government) in a hope that those middle and upper class people will vote the government back in.
What Australia needs is a well planned and written "Means Test". Those that can afford it pay for it - those that are financially poor get help. The Means Test would have to take into account businessmen like myself who have very little in personal wealth and income but have quite a deal tied up in Trusts and Company entities. Does a citizens home value come into the Means Test - IMO - no - it should be only on income - but all net income from all areas both open and hidden.
SIMPLY PUT - Australia cannot afford Middle and Upper Class welfare - it is ruining the country - if you want that standard of living then work for it and pay for it - the government silver spoon approach has to stop.
The views of the above are from the writer Remote Tiger and are not necessarily the views of PRE. But in the words of Sam Kekovich
"You know I'm right!"
Don't take what I just said out of context - those that cannot afford the doctor under the scheme deserve government support for their health services. No argument from me.
But we have far too many middle and upper class families and singles who quite bluntly get spoon fed by the government (any incumbent government) in a hope that those middle and upper class people will vote the government back in.
What Australia needs is a well planned and written "Means Test". Those that can afford it pay for it - those that are financially poor get help. The Means Test would have to take into account businessmen like myself who have very little in personal wealth and income but have quite a deal tied up in Trusts and Company entities. Does a citizens home value come into the Means Test - IMO - no - it should be only on income - but all net income from all areas both open and hidden.
SIMPLY PUT - Australia cannot afford Middle and Upper Class welfare - it is ruining the country - if you want that standard of living then work for it and pay for it - the government silver spoon approach has to stop.
The views of the above are from the writer Remote Tiger and are not necessarily the views of PRE. But in the words of Sam Kekovich
"You know I'm right!"
Those who can afford it do pay for Medicare , through the levy. It is also means tested essentially in that the more you earn the more you pay.RemoteTiger said:
brilliant post RT. middle class welfare drives me bonkers, especially handouts to families. if you chose to have a family, thats all good and well, but you don't a deserve a handout as a reward. you plan ahead and make sacrifices.
i am all for means testing, but abbott will never do that as it will affect his rich supporters.
i am all for means testing, but abbott will never do that as it will affect his rich supporters.
Sintiger said:
No incorrect - those that can hide income through approved Australian Taxation Office methods and processes do not pay their right Medicare Levy - it is only the process poor PAYE people who pay the right amount of levy.
Plus this system is proving every day that it is not working - it needs an overhaul - Emergency Rooms are over burdened with patients because there is an ever decreasing number of bulk-billing doctors. We, Australians all, have it in our heads that we should have that service for free - sorry but the country cannot afford it - so make those that can afford the doctor pay for it. Provide an insurance scheme for those who wish to pay the premiums that will rebate them in part or full the doctors fees.
We have to stop spoon feeding those that can afford it from their own incomes. The Australian Standard of Living is slipping every week and will continue to slip until we invest in the right areas of the economy - areas that will promote growth and prosperity - middle class welfare is not one of those areas.
All middle class welfare does is create lazy attitudes and a "this is my right attitude" - whereas the real truth is, we are privileged to have the opportunity to better ourselves - if you accept that opportunity then you deserve the lifestyle. If not then you get another not as good lifestyle. If there are hindrances or hurdles in the way of a citizen to improve themselves then it is our duty as a society to either help that citizen over the hurdle or remove the hurdle - but simply providing money under the disguise of welfare to gain votes, does not encourage people to better themselves........
Not sure where this all came from. I was simply pointing out that in my opinion Medicare is not a good example of middle class welfare, so not sure why the commentary.RemoteTiger said:
Your comments about higher income people not paying the correct levy has nothing to do with Medicare, it is a commentary on some of the issues with our tax system. The mechanisms of Medicare to me address the issues of user pays and higher income people pay more. It is not perfect in the way it works but to me is a poor example of the middle class welfare you refer to.
The $75 k Abbott maternity scheme is a much better example.
In work I am currently doing I am very close to the Public health system. Whilst the lack of bulk billing has some effect on the numbers in our Emergency departments it is far more complicated that than. Emergency Departments numbers have been increasing at above population growth for many years and is driven by lots of factors including the propensity of some to use them as defacto GP clinics.
Good post RT.
I agree with you in principle but question the $5 "levy" as I think the cost of collecting it may exceed the revenue gained so we are just adding another layer of bureaucracy to administer it.
The Public Service has exploded in numbers since Rudd first got in, and the levy just makes this situation worse.
IMO, and I take your point about some of the rich not paying their fair share of the levy, but many middle class to rich people do pay it (I'm one) and I feel a much cheaper solution would be to simply increase the existing medicare levy we currently pay. Add an extra quarter of a percent or so to the levy, with no additional Public Servants required.
BTW, being self employed I don't pay PAYG but I still get whacked with the levy at the end of the year.
Cheers.
I agree with you in principle but question the $5 "levy" as I think the cost of collecting it may exceed the revenue gained so we are just adding another layer of bureaucracy to administer it.
The Public Service has exploded in numbers since Rudd first got in, and the levy just makes this situation worse.
IMO, and I take your point about some of the rich not paying their fair share of the levy, but many middle class to rich people do pay it (I'm one) and I feel a much cheaper solution would be to simply increase the existing medicare levy we currently pay. Add an extra quarter of a percent or so to the levy, with no additional Public Servants required.
BTW, being self employed I don't pay PAYG but I still get whacked with the levy at the end of the year.
Cheers.
antman said:
yes, i thought of the WIndies after i posted. i wouldnt like any "states' chances of qualifying for the soccer World Cup tho.
and would people who travel on the Spirit of Tasmania without a visa be sent to MacQuarie Island?
on the bright side tho Tony Abbott would never again be my PM.
seriously tho i am a little interested to hear whether G would prefer total separate countries or some other style of union.
antman said:
And to quote from that esteemed fact checking orgainsation it seems I was wrong.
My calculator works so it's not an explosion of numbers, It's only an increase of 7.286%.
Sorry. I'm sure those 18,753 servants of the people are busy working on our behalf.