Terrorist Attacks

[Brodders17]

He WAS seeing a doctor, his family confirmed it. The doctor thought he was doing better, so decided to start to wean him off the meds he was on (that were working but the doctor thought he might not need them any longer). He then stopped going to the doctor and his family said his behaviour changed and he moved away. The rest is history.

My concern with this, is whats the escalation process if this action happens to another patient, and they then stop going to the doctor. Who does welfare checks? Anyone? I'd hazard a guess not, but this highlights how inaction can increase risks to the public. Had welfare checks been done, even his dad said he moved back in with them and they found a whole bunch of knives which is dad confiscated them from him and he got angry and ultimately moved out again. From what the family said, they did everything they could to help him, but the system seems to have failed him.

Its all well and good changing treatment methods, but then what happens if they stop taking them. What escalation steps exist for the doctor. It can't just be that they are forgotten about, there has to be a process that protects the individual as well as the community around them.

A few thoughts- Meds often have a lot of negative side effects so doctors will want to prescribe the least amount while maintaining their effectiveness, and people taking the meds will often want to come off them, and have the right to do so. Unless there is enough reason for a court to issue a treatment order and even these are very hard to enforce- unless there is a notable risk.

People living with mental illness dont lose the right to privacy, or the right to self determination, nor are they automatic dangers to others.

And i think it was you that earlier posted that he was known to police in Queensland- this does not necessarily mean he was a danger to others, or had presented any risk. It doesnt mean police had any reason to track his movements, or follow up on his whereabouts. Sometimes police just know people who may need some assistance at times.

An awful situation all round.

 

[Sintiger]

A few thoughts- Meds often have a lot of negative side effects so doctors will want to prescribe the least amount while maintaining their effectiveness, and people taking the meds will often want to come off them, and have the right to do so. Unless there is enough reason for a court to issue a treatment order and even these are very hard to enforce- unless there is a notable risk.

People living with mental illness dont lose the right to privacy, or the right to self determination, nor are they automatic dangers to others.

And i think it was you that earlier posted that he was known to police in Queensland- this does not necessarily mean he was a danger to others, or had presented any risk. It doesnt mean police had any reason to track his movements, or follow up on his whereabouts. Sometimes police just know people who may need some assistance at times.

An awful situation all round.

Couple of comments.

His mother actually said that the meds made him feel very sick, you are right about the side effects. Evidently he had been stopped and searched for knives on the Gold Coast at least once but didn't have one on him so there must have been some sort of intelligence/information on him.

I agree with what you are saying btw. Mental health is not an exact science

 

[MD Jazz]

A few thoughts- Meds often have a lot of negative side effects so doctors will want to prescribe the least amount while maintaining their effectiveness, and people taking the meds will often want to come off them, and have the right to do so. Unless there is enough reason for a court to issue a treatment order and even these are very hard to enforce- unless there is a notable risk.

People living with mental illness dont lose the right to privacy, or the right to self determination, nor are they automatic dangers to others.

And i think it was you that earlier posted that he was known to police in Queensland- this does not necessarily mean he was a danger to others, or had presented any risk. It doesnt mean police had any reason to track his movements, or follow up on his whereabouts. Sometimes police just know people who may need some assistance at times.

An awful situation all round.

Yeh, we would not have enough resources if everyone with a mental health condition was assumed dangerous and required tracking/follow up.

 

[toothless]

Looks like @mrposhman may have nailed it.

 

[toothless]

All I am saying is that the “teachings” of this priest may be the reason why this out of control crowd appeared after.

 

[Tigers of Old]

Couple of comments.

His mother actually said that the meds made him feel very sick, you are right about the side effects.

I know someone who got significantly worse on prescribed medication to treat depression. They basically were overdosing & developed mania symptoms. It was scary to watch them spiral. Far better off without it.
Side effects are no joke.

 

[spook]

The states should only be for sheffield shield cricket and state of origin footy.

And taking action on covid when the Morrislug government is too busy doing nothing.

You can get a mental health plan from your GP and get a discount for 10 sessions per year with a psychiatrist/psychologist. \

Free. You can get 'em free.

 

[tigertim]

Free. You can get 'em free.

Only if you’re seeing a bulk billing psychologist (don’t think there’s any BB psychiatrists though) or if you’ve got serious MH issues and are in “the system“ seeing your mental health professional as an in or out patient.

 

[Sintiger]

Only if you’re seeing a bulk billing psychologist (don’t think there’s any BB psychiatrists though) or if you’ve got serious MH issues and are in “the system“ seeing your mental health professional as an in or out patient.

Correct a psychologist, who can’t dispense drugs

You can get a bulk billing or free psychiatrist if you are referred into the public hospital system but the wait list is probably long

 

[Brodders17]

Yeh, we would not have enough resources if everyone with a mental health condition was assumed dangerous and required tracking/follow up.

Its not about resources- there is no reason to assume everyone with a mental health condition is dangerous and requires tracking/follow up, so it shouldnt be the default position- unless we are happy for the wider community to live under the same conditions.

 

[mrposhman]

Its not about resources- there is no reason to assume everyone with a mental health condition is dangerous and requires tracking/follow up, so it shouldnt be the default position- unless we are happy for the wider community to live under the same conditions.

Certainly agree that not every person with a mental health condition needs to be followed up on, but there has to be adequate procedures in place to notify relevant authorities at times where doctor follow ups are not met, which need to be the same in both the public and private system. I assume most people with mental health conditions will have some sort of repeat follow ups with doctors to track how they are going, how the meds are going (for treatment but also side effects), and if these sessions are missed, you'd think for not only the protection of the public, but probably moreso in most cases, the protection of the individual themselves would require a welfare check up to make sure they are ok.

This clearly wouldn't be every person with a mental health condition but when those risks increase where a person can become a danger to themselves or others, there should be a procedure where we check up on them. I would hazard a guess that there isn't a lot of funding out there for this, but maybe there should be.

 

[Willo]

Its not about resources- there is no reason to assume everyone with a mental health condition is dangerous and requires tracking/follow up, so it shouldnt be the default position- unless we are happy for the wider community to live under the same conditions.

Agreed. Impossible to have enough resources anyway.
With the amount of people claiming mental health problems as a defence and the number who genuinely do have mental health issues who are diagnosed, and the people who do but aren’t diagnosed, there is no way we could ever have the resources to cover everyone

 

[MD Jazz]

And taking action on covid when the Morrislug government is too busy doing nothing.


Free. You can get 'em free.

I think TT is correct it is not free for most. I have used the service and still paid, but as tt said it wasn't a bulk billing psychologist.

 

[MD Jazz]

I know someone who got significantly worse on prescribed medication to treat depression. They basically were overdosing & developed mania symptoms. It was scary to watch them spiral. Far better off without it.
Side effects are no joke.

It's different for everyone. Some people cannot function without medication. Most people I know who take medication for bi-polar say it takes ages to get the meds right. And it still doesn't mean they avoid depressive episodes.

 

[Tigers of Old]

The Vic cops obviously have significant enough info to charge this 16 yr old with a Terrorism charge which is a bit of a concern. Wonder what they else they're picking up..

 

[Sintiger]

Its not about resources- there is no reason to assume everyone with a mental health condition is dangerous and requires tracking/follow up, so it shouldnt be the default position- unless we are happy for the wider community to live under the same conditions.

I agree but It would be great if all mental health patients are followed up if they drop out of the system, not necessarily because they are dangerous but because it is better for them and us in the longer term.
That is a matter of resources. Clinicians don’t always follow up when someone drops out not because they don’t want to but because they have massive waiting lists.
One of the things that has been of concern in this space is that not enough doctors who go into specialisation pick mental health/psychiatry. That’s because it is hard, especially in the public system which has become overwhelmed.