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China
- Thread starter Tigers of Old
- Start date
I’m very interested in what people would be an appropriate response. The CCP is interested in nothing other than total servitude and capitulation from anyone it deals with. They have no other interests than their own; they do not even have the interests of their own people at heart.
It is akin to Stalinism for the 21st century.
Response is what started all this. ScoMo stood up first and slapped the Chinese publicly over COVID. Why? NFI but it wasn't very smart. Whoever his advisers were need to be slapped, unless the intent was to stay in Trump's good books.
The Asian culture really doesn't respond well to public dressing downs or criticism. Be it Business, Politics or Social settings, it's just not done. It's considered very rude and overly aggressive. You make your points in a respectful manner, one on one, away from others hearing, and things are likely to improve.
So for those who think it was right to stand up to the bully, well you need to know how your bully thinks and work out what the best way is to achieve your goals.
The Asian culture really doesn't respond well to public dressing downs or criticism. Be it Business, Politics or Social settings, it's just not done. It's considered very rude and overly aggressive. You make your points in a respectful manner, one on one, away from others hearing, and things are likely to improve.
So for those who think it was right to stand up to the bully, well you need to know how your bully thinks and work out what the best way is to achieve your goals.
In regards mainstream media - in CCP terms that means The Global Times and that has even less credibility than Twitter and should only be read for the LOLs.
The main thing is if you respond to something like that you need to first assess what it will achieve.You assess that by talking to DFAT personnel and maybe even talk to our Ambassador in China and asking the experts what the appropriate response is.
Did China apologise? No, they've doubled down.
Did Twitter remove the post? No.
So the response achieved nothing at all.
Then to go on WeChat to attempt to talk direct to the Chinese people and not understand that it would be immediately deleted?
Ignore them and they'll get bored because they are not getting a reaction.
Keep poking the Panda and they'll keep ramping it up.
We deal/trade with equally repugnant regimes without the need for shouting - Saudi Arabia, Iran, Qatar, UAE etc.
Why is China different?
As for punching the bully in the nose? With a feather? Australia doesn't even qualify as a middle power. We have no diplomatic, political or military clout.
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I find it interesting that people are criticising the government for responding. As you say, it’s an official CCP account, it was a fake image. We have a right to defend ourselves from blatant lies. What would the reaction be if our government posted the pic of the protester standing in front of the line of tanks in Tiananmen Square? It’s a real pic. I guarantee you the outrage from China would dwarf our protests. And the sad thing is I bet you the outrage from the same people in Australia bagging our government for expressing our displeasure at a fake pic would condemn our government for posting a real pic.
And while I am on this, I find it amusing that the CCP are now being the moral arbiters on human rights. If the charges against the soldiers are proved true ( innocent until proven guilty here, a concept foreign to the CCP), then its the acts of the individual that is the crime. As far as I know, it isn’t government policy to implement the actions that these soldiers are being accused of doing. It is however the actions of a government to illegally inter a minority into concentration camps, illegally forcibly sterilise women against their will, illegally force abortions, illegally occupy countries, etc, I could go on
No, he stated quite reasonably that the W.H.O. should conduct a thorough investigation of the origins of the infection and then seek to ensure that (following SARS which originated in China) and now COVID, which appears to have originated in Wuhan,- that the W.H.O might then be able to put in place arrangements which hopefully would prevent a recurrence.
All very much in the public interest.
Not generally a fan but apart from possibly consulting privately with the US and EU beforehand, can’t see that he made a mistake.
China's reaction and subsequent trade sanctions would point to it being a mistake
How about Australian culture? Why do we need to bend to the culture of countries like China, when they don't even meet us half way?
Make your points one on one? These %$&#ers won't even take our phone calls FFS. How do you propose we achieve this?
In a respectful manner? So we need to be respectful to them, but they can sh!t on us however they want? Seriously?
Yes the hypocrisy of the CCP is staggering. Can’t even fathom how people can defend how they behave and then expect we should bend over and just cop whatever is coming our way.
The CCP is detestable.
Morrison is an opportunistic beast, we saw a good example of that with the Aust Post, Christine Holgate watches affair. He saw a populist opportunity and went for the jugular.
He did the same with the recent Aust Defence Force tweet from China, in less than an hour he'd organised a press conference.
He's a political animal, personally I don't like that style. He might think it's ok to talk that way in Parliament to those opposed to him.
The escalations in bad relations with China ramped up with Morrison telling the world that the World Heath Organisation needed tougher new "weapons" inspectors to find the cause of Covid. I agree with most of the sentiment, I think "weapons was a poor choice of words though. He went about it the wrong way.
Morrison needs to remember that he is no longer in marketing, and that most times a more diplomatic approach is the best course of action, imo.
He did the same with the recent Aust Defence Force tweet from China, in less than an hour he'd organised a press conference.
He's a political animal, personally I don't like that style. He might think it's ok to talk that way in Parliament to those opposed to him.
The escalations in bad relations with China ramped up with Morrison telling the world that the World Heath Organisation needed tougher new "weapons" inspectors to find the cause of Covid. I agree with most of the sentiment, I think "weapons was a poor choice of words though. He went about it the wrong way.
Morrison needs to remember that he is no longer in marketing, and that most times a more diplomatic approach is the best course of action, imo.
Yeah, they don't take our phone calls anymore. They aren't showing us any respect. They are trolling us. But from their perspective, we started it.
They also look at us as massive hypocrites. Happy to trade with them and sell them half our natural resources because we like their money for a long time now. But the CCP has always been the CCP and hasn't really changed how they think or behave. But we were fine with that as long as they bought what we were selling and they could provide us with nice shiny cheap 65" LCD TVs.
No. China’s reaction and subsequent behaviours have been intended to make Aust and the rest of the world, squirm and ‘tremble and obey’.
Can’t see that we should bend on reasonable diplomatic practice in regard to a pandemic that has killed more than a million people world wide and caused insurmountable economic loss, simply because the Chinese President, with an ego to match that of Trump, wishes us too.
That is not part of our culture and never will be.
I was referring to Australian mainstream media, not mouthpieces of the CCP.
An immediate response was needed for something so repugnant. This wasn't the CCP telling us that we are gum on their shoe and other nonsense propaganda. That image directly from the CCP totally crossed the line.
I think you are dead wrong that the response achieved nothing. I think it galvanised the country. There had to be a response, was it the right response, was the timing right, was there proper consultation, these can all be debated but there had to be a response.
Ignore them and they will go away. Really? You really think we should do that?
How are we poking the panda? From what I can see, we're responding to pokes. Best to ignore them hey?
So going back to my example of bullying at school, your son or daughter is being bullied and you've exhausted all avenues ie. spoken to the school, the bully's parents, but the bullying continues and your child is distraught...what would you do? Sure you could leave schools, but what if it happened at the next, and the next?
What would you do Althom?
ScoMo went off half-cocked. First western leader, other than Trump, to say something, and now were copping it on the trade table. And you think it's not related?
Ultimately we've put Australia in a position where we need China a lot more than they need us, so we need to think a bit before acting and saying *smile*.
What would I do?
In the early days of the pandemic I would have been calling for all countries to work together to work out the best way of co-ordinating efforts against the virus and not calling for some sort of premature WMD type inspection clearly aimed at one country.
I wouldn't have blabbed our reason to reject Huawei from the NBN and 5G reason to the world and then advised other countries to do the same. The decision could have been made along the lines of "Sorry but your tender was unsuccessful"
I wouldn't have trumpeted that we were instituting laws to reduce foreign influence. These laws are required but shouting about them from the parapets is not necessary.
Maybe if Morrison had thought about the potential impact of his actions early on then we wouldn't be where we are now.
Subtlety is required not a megaphone.
The CCP clearly think we picked the fight and it's quite clear that they have reason for this belief.
As for "galvanising the nation" that's part of Morrison's problem. He's thinking about votes not about the actual impact of his actions.
We are now in a tit for tat type argument that we cannot possibly win. Chest beating may make some people feel all good about themselves but it won't help the people who are now going to be long term unemployed.
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I was literally asking you how would you deal with a bully terrorising your kids at school
Well I certainly wouldn't be advocating assault particularly if the end result would be my child ending up in hospital.
Precisely what you yourself stated - deal with it through the school and the bully's parents. Taking it to a stage of demanding the bully be expelled, taking it to the Police to get an AVO issued and if that failed then moving my child to another school.
OK thanks...so everything but confronting the bully. Unfortunately bullies are everywhere, school, workplaces, sporting clubs. AVOs aren't always going to be there.
I think this is a really important moment in our short history. Back down now, and they will smell blood and move in for the kill. The only option we have is to stand firm and don't concede. The good thing about this situation is exporters are actively looking for new markets. This won't be easy, and it will take time but it will make us stronger in the long run. I use to go to China and HK a lot for business, not stepping foot on their shores again with their arbitrary detention laws. My children are forced to learn Mandarin in a state primary school. I'm getting an exemption for them next year. The Education Dept have agreed, just need the China apologist principal to tow the line.
Everything Xi does is to placate the Chinese people. Their GDP/debt ratio is 1:3 with an ageing population. They are spending trillions on BRI and building ghost cites. Their people want their lives improved. I think they are in licorice. Stand firm against this oppressive regime I say.
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