Carltony | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
  • IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.

Carltony

RoarEmotion

Tiger Legend
Aug 20, 2005
5,122
6,827
Wonder what the actual vaxx uptake would be if the Govt wasn't forcing people to be vaccinated or get kicked out of society?? The risk of serious illness falls on the unvaccinated, far as I'm concerned that's their choice n their risk.

Company I work for has operated right through the pandemic with not a single case of the virus here in Vic just by following the simple n basic covid rules of distancing, sanitising n masks. Company has now been forced by Govt regulations to stand down three possibly four employees because they wouldn't get vaxxed. None would be considered in the high risk category, none have the virus, but the law says they can *smile* off regardless. Not just me, but i reckon the law is a wrong one.

Your first point is excellent. For me it’s about outcome. So whatever the most effective way to get the majority of the population vaccinated is the right one and taking into regard the implications of how it is done.

The point you are missing is that the cumulative effect of individual choices has an impact on society. Public hospitals are a social good in Australia as we all pay tax to use them. Right now we are doing triage in this system because demand >> supply in large part because of many individuals choices to not get vaccinated. So an individuals choice to not get vaccinated hurts someone else they Probably don’t know and in A way that is not very public. The cost to the individual of the jab is way less than the cost to society of the non jab. You either have to violate some individual freedoms to get a society outcome or let society suffer the effects of misinformation and enabling ‘freeloading’ of individual choices on the system.

This is the crux of so many debates anyway. Personal freedom vs societal impact. If you look at gun control if you go to the infinite level of personal freedom that means everyone has the right to have a button that blows up earth if they feel like it. At the other end of it, you can’t use a plastic knife (all tools are banned) and have to eat with just your hands in case someone uses a tool against another person.

I don’t think any absolute outcome is the right one but where society impacts are large and personal impacts are small I lean way more to individuals rights being impinged for the greater good.
 
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Brodders17

Tiger Legend
Mar 21, 2008
17,818
12,012
We all know that vaccinated people can still pass it on or catch it but it mitigates the risk to others, particularly the vulnerable and helps to reduce the burden on the health system.
you only think we all know that, because that is what BIG PARMA and the Glitterati want us to think. if you really want to know the truth FB and You Tube are your friends.
 
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Brodders17

Tiger Legend
Mar 21, 2008
17,818
12,012
Yeah, it’s an odd comment. We have the ND, PSD, rookie drafts to come (as well as the current DFA and the upcoming SSP options) but they “will work with the AFL regarding options for filling Jones spot on the playing list”?
Give them first pick in the ND. Screw North over, and the Blooze will destroy JHFs career anyway.
 
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tigermike

Tiger Superstar
Apr 6, 2014
1,902
1,275
you only think we all know that, because that is what BIG PARMA and the Glitterati want us to think. if you really want to know the truth FB and You Tube are your friends.
Seriously? Or just baiting people to engage with what I call outrageous comments? Unscientific opinions on Facebook and Youtube are the reason many people have lost faith in respectable scientific research and medical breakthroughs. Yes I know some 'scientists' have a following on social media for the anti-vaxxers which makes it all the more difficult for the average person to know the 'truth' and we can thank Donald Trump for a lot of these issues we face today. I can honestly understand why you and many others are so confused. It's a sad state of affairs that our world is now in and very different to when I grew up when scientists and medical experts were respected for their opinions because of their education and experience.
 

frickenel

Tiger Champion
Jul 30, 2003
2,636
1,891
Hidden Valley
I'm double vax'd as of Tuesday last week.

I had my first shot 12 weeks earlier (Astrazenica) and within 2 hours was reporting to emergency with breathing issues (not as symptom of Astrazenica).

I'm a fit person, a bloody fit person. I've always been aboe to run 15k's at 4 minute k pace, even without having run for extended periods of time. When we were playing other forums in footy games, a lot of comments were posted on here about my physique. My build today was literally identical (6ft 2 and 94kg, 32 inch waist). I'm now 84kf, 10kg down in 12 weeks. but even now, 12 weeks after that first shot, i can't do anything physical without gassing out. How long this will last i'm not sure.

Basically, within 2 hours, i noticed a reduced capacity in my left lung. Right side seemd ok. It wasn't overly distressing, but any physical labor and i am getting light headed and neding to go to my knees for oxygen.

To say i was aprehensive about the second shot is an understatement.

I was due for the second shot 6 weeks later, but put it off for as long as i could whilst i had tests done, chest x-rays, bloods icg etc.

When i returned to my doctor he said "I'm going to print these result out for you because the results are off the charts" and went on to say it's like my results were mixed up with those of a 20 yr old athlete. It wasn't really what i wanted to hear. I was lke "If things are that good, why can't i raise a gallop now"?

Anyway, with much trepidation i went and had the second shot last Tuesday. I didn't notice my breathing get any worse than it already was. I had the shot at 10am. By 4pm i noticed tightness in my shoulders and neck. By 6pm i had a thumping headache. As i type this now, the headache is still there. Yesterday i consulted Virtual ED and over video conference went over the symptoms. In the back of my mind was clotting, but i felt that was unlikely as the area bulging up in my neck isn't extremely warm and it came on too quickly to really be clotting. The person on the other end of the conference suspects a gland in my neck has swollen and hit a nerve, causing the neck muscle to bunch up and cause the headaches. She suggested just to make sure, that i go to emergency. I basically aid "F... that", and have made an appointment with my ormal GP. At least i can trust that he is thorough.

I also have a client who is an AFLW player. One of her team mates canot train after taking Astrazeneca........ same symptoms as me, cannot raise a gallop without blowing up. So how i'm being told it's not a symptom is beyond me, i mean my social circles aren't that large and i know of one other already.

Interestingly when i had the ICG done, the nurse performing the test told me she'd already had 4 females present just that morning with abnormal heart rythm. This was literally before 11am. I know this issue mainly affects yoinger males, so i was surprised to hear that.

My brotrher in laws brothers son has been in hospital for over 5 weeks in a real bad way from Pfizer. I suspect he gets into steroids a bit so i wonder if there may have been a reaction because of that. I try to be balanced on this subject, but anyone who thinks the the $$$ from big Pharma are not controlling the narrative here are kidding themselves. Shareholders in these companies are rocketing up the world's richest lists as we speak.

The idea that we need to inject children with this is beyond a joke. Likewise, the idea that people who have recovered from Covid need to be vaccinated is equally laughable. Studies in Isreal and now elsewhere are showing natural immunity to be far higher than that of the vaccines. It just seems like the more arms the bigger the dollar signs.

They have a bit of history with kids too:



More food for thought re the bureaucrats who think they can run our lives better than we can ourselves:
 
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Harry

Tiger Legend
Mar 2, 2003
24,586
12,175
I'm double vax'd as of Tuesday last week.

I had my first shot 12 weeks earlier (Astrazenica) and within 2 hours was reporting to emergency with breathing issues (not as symptom of Astrazenica).

I'm a fit person, a bloody fit person. I've always been aboe to run 15k's at 4 minute k pace, even without having run for extended periods of time. When we were playing other forums in footy games, a lot of comments were posted on here about my physique. My build today was literally identical (6ft 2 and 94kg, 32 inch waist). I'm now 84kf, 10kg down in 12 weeks. but even now, 12 weeks after that first shot, i can't do anything physical without gassing out. How long this will last i'm not sure.

Basically, within 2 hours, i noticed a reduced capacity in my left lung. Right side seemd ok. It wasn't overly distressing, but any physical labor and i am getting light headed and neding to go to my knees for oxygen.

To say i was aprehensive about the second shot is an understatement.

I was due for the second shot 6 weeks later, but put it off for as long as i could whilst i had tests done, chest x-rays, bloods icg etc.

When i returned to my doctor he said "I'm going to print these result out for you because the results are off the charts" and went on to say it's like my results were mixed up with those of a 20 yr old athlete. It wasn't really what i wanted to hear. I was lke "If things are that good, why can't i raise a gallop now"?

Anyway, with much trepidation i went and had the second shot last Tuesday. I didn't notice my breathing get any worse than it already was. I had the shot at 10am. By 4pm i noticed tightness in my shoulders and neck. By 6pm i had a thumping headache. As i type this now, the headache is still there. Yesterday i consulted Virtual ED and over video conference went over the symptoms. In the back of my mind was clotting, but i felt that was unlikely as the area bulging up in my neck isn't extremely warm and it came on too quickly to really be clotting. The person on the other end of the conference suspects a gland in my neck has swollen and hit a nerve, causing the neck muscle to bunch up and cause the headaches. She suggested just to make sure, that i go to emergency. I basically aid "F... that", and have made an appointment with my ormal GP. At least i can trust that he is thorough.

I also have a client who is an AFLW player. One of her team mates canot train after taking Astrazeneca........ same symptoms as me, cannot raise a gallop without blowing up. So how i'm being told it's not a symptom is beyond me, i mean my social circles aren't that large and i know of one other already.

Interestingly when i had the ICG done, the nurse performing the test told me she'd already had 4 females present just that morning with abnormal heart rythm. This was literally before 11am. I know this issue mainly affects yoinger males, so i was surprised to hear that.

My brotrher in laws brothers son has been in hospital for over 5 weeks in a real bad way from Pfizer. I suspect he gets into steroids a bit so i wonder if there may have been a reaction because of that. I try to be balanced on this subject, but anyone who thinks the the $$$ from big Pharma are not controlling the narrative here are kidding themselves. Shareholders in these companies are rocketing up the world's richest lists as we speak.

The idea that we need to inject children with this is beyond a joke. Likewise, the idea that people who have recovered from Covid need to be vaccinated is equally laughable. Studies in Isreal and now elsewhere are showing natural immunity to be far higher than that of the vaccines. It just seems like the more arms the bigger the dollar signs.

They have a bit of history with kids too:



More food for thought re the bureaucrats who think they can run our lives better than we can ourselves:
*smile* Frick, sad to hear what you've been through. Brave of you getting the second shot, I would have most likely refused.

My issue with the whole vaccine thing is forcing the vaccine on the fit and healthy, those who have spent their whole lives looking after themselves, who watch what they eat and exercise regularly. And anyone in this position who refuses is ridiculed and abused.

I know a personal trainer who is ultra fit and healthy who has lost her livelihood coz she refused the jab. And then you have people who live off a diet of pizza and coke and haven't exercised in 10 years ridiculing her and calling her an anti-vaxxer.

I'm 100% behind the elderly and vulnerable to be double vaxxed or even undergo boosters, but forcing the fit and healthy and the young, who have a very very low chance of getting really sick from covid is going too far. More and more evidence is showing that transmission is high amongst the vaccinated, so why do we need to force vaccinate those in the very low risk category?
 
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Baloo

Delisted Free Agent
Nov 8, 2005
44,172
19,044
More and more evidence is showing that transmission is high amongst the vaccinated

Really? Higher than unvaccinated? I haven't seen any credible report that stated that. I have seen nutter websites and their supporters sprouting that there is a greater % of vaccinated people contracting and by extension transmitting COVID, but that's simply their lack of basic mathematics and common sense talking.
 
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frickenel

Tiger Champion
Jul 30, 2003
2,636
1,891
Hidden Valley
*smile* Frick, sad to hear what you've been through. Brave of you getting the second shot, I would have most likely refused.

My issue with the whole vaccine thing is forcing the vaccine on the fit and healthy, those who have spent their whole lives looking after themselves, who watch what they eat and exercise regularly. And anyone in this position who refuses is ridiculed and abused.

I know a personal trainer who is ultra fit and healthy who has lost her livelihood coz she refused the jab. And then you have people who live off a diet of pizza and coke and haven't exercised in 10 years ridiculing her and calling her an anti-vaxxer.

I'm 100% behind the elderly and vulnerable to be double vaxxed or even undergo boosters, but forcing the fit and healthy and the young, who have a very very low chance of getting really sick from covid is going too far. More and more evidence is showing that transmission is high amongst the vaccinated, so why do we need to force vaccinate those in the very low risk category?
That is exactly my sentiment.

Not only could it have been rolled out quicker to the vulnerable, but that approach would have left way more vaccine doses available to poorer nations.

However, then we have the canary in the room................... Ivamectin.

There are numerous studies debunking the use of Ivermectin, but the question in my mind is how 'independent' are these studies from the money now flowing to big Pharma via the vaccine programs.

The most successful Covid-19 response of any place on earth seems to be under a media black ban!

Doesn't it fit the narrative?

Uttar Pradesh, India with 230 million inhabitants, is the most populous subdivision anywhere in the world. In April / May 2021 news reports showed them burning bodies in the streets as crematoriums were over whelmed. During May, in conjunction with WHO, rapid response teams were sent out to every household in every village.

They brought with them a home kits which included ten 12mg tablets of Ivermectin, Zinc, Vitamin D3 and a few other things.

From 310,783 cases in April, cases dropped by 99% by 2nd July 2021.

By September 12 only 14 cases existed in all of Uttar Pradesh, this is despite low vaccination rates. Thats in an area with a population of 230 million.

You can run as many lab studies as you like, but here is a study based on 230 million people that seems to indicate that we are being fed a crock of BS. What's more, the WHO was involved in rolling out these kits, so they know fully how effective these kits were. Not only that, but the kits only cost $2.65 as opposed to Remdesivir which costs $3100. But maybe that's the clue to the narrative!

Anything with expired patents doesn't work according to big Pharma. But anything that makes them billions, well that's another story.

More importantly, no side effects wer reported with these home kits.


I got some information during the weekend that sent a serious chill through me.

I will PM you on that when i get a chance.
 
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Baloo

Delisted Free Agent
Nov 8, 2005
44,172
19,044
much more to do with being very low risk. Same as children.
Nah, I reckon overwhelmingly the numbers of elite athletes in ICU would be a direct result of the number of unvaccinated elite athletes.
 
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Harry

Tiger Legend
Mar 2, 2003
24,586
12,175
That is exactly my sentiment.

Not only could it have been rolled out quicker to the vulnerable, but that approach would have left way more vaccine doses available to poorer nations.

However, then we have the canary in the room................... Ivamectin.

There are numerous studies debunking the use of Ivermectin, but the question in my mind is how 'independent' are these studies from the money now flowing to big Pharma via the vaccine programs.

The most successful Covid-19 response of any place on earth seems to be under a media black ban!

Doesn't it fit the narrative?

Uttar Pradesh, India with 230 million inhabitants, is the most populous subdivision anywhere in the world. In April / May 2021 news reports showed them burning bodies in the streets as crematoriums were over whelmed. During May, in conjunction with WHO, rapid response teams were sent out to every household in every village.

They brought with them a home kits which included ten 12mg tablets of Ivermectin, Zinc, Vitamin D3 and a few other things.

From 310,783 cases in April, cases dropped by 99% by 2nd July 2021.

By September 12 only 14 cases existed in all of Uttar Pradesh, this is despite low vaccination rates. Thats in an area with a population of 230 million.

You can run as many lab studies as you like, but here is a study based on 230 million people that seems to indicate that we are being fed a crock of BS. What's more, the WHO was involved in rolling out these kits, so they know fully how effective these kits were. Not only that, but the kits only cost $2.65 as opposed to Remdesivir which costs $3100. But maybe that's the clue to the narrative!

Anything with expired patents doesn't work according to big Pharma. But anything that makes them billions, well that's another story.

More importantly, no side effects wer reported with these home kits.


I got some information during the weekend that sent a serious chill through me.

I will PM you on that when i get a chance.
@lamb22 has covered this in the Covid thread in the general area. Be prepared for ridicule to be thrown your way.
 

AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
27,168
15,037
I'm double vax'd as of Tuesday last week.

I had my first shot 12 weeks earlier (Astrazenica) and within 2 hours was reporting to emergency with breathing issues (not as symptom of Astrazenica).

I'm a fit person, a bloody fit person. I've always been aboe to run 15k's at 4 minute k pace, even without having run for extended periods of time. When we were playing other forums in footy games, a lot of comments were posted on here about my physique. My build today was literally identical (6ft 2 and 94kg, 32 inch waist). I'm now 84kf, 10kg down in 12 weeks. but even now, 12 weeks after that first shot, i can't do anything physical without gassing out. How long this will last i'm not sure.

Basically, within 2 hours, i noticed a reduced capacity in my left lung. Right side seemd ok. It wasn't overly distressing, but any physical labor and i am getting light headed and neding to go to my knees for oxygen.

To say i was aprehensive about the second shot is an understatement.

I was due for the second shot 6 weeks later, but put it off for as long as i could whilst i had tests done, chest x-rays, bloods icg etc.

When i returned to my doctor he said "I'm going to print these result out for you because the results are off the charts" and went on to say it's like my results were mixed up with those of a 20 yr old athlete. It wasn't really what i wanted to hear. I was lke "If things are that good, why can't i raise a gallop now"?

Anyway, with much trepidation i went and had the second shot last Tuesday. I didn't notice my breathing get any worse than it already was. I had the shot at 10am. By 4pm i noticed tightness in my shoulders and neck. By 6pm i had a thumping headache. As i type this now, the headache is still there. Yesterday i consulted Virtual ED and over video conference went over the symptoms. In the back of my mind was clotting, but i felt that was unlikely as the area bulging up in my neck isn't extremely warm and it came on too quickly to really be clotting. The person on the other end of the conference suspects a gland in my neck has swollen and hit a nerve, causing the neck muscle to bunch up and cause the headaches. She suggested just to make sure, that i go to emergency. I basically aid "F... that", and have made an appointment with my ormal GP. At least i can trust that he is thorough.

I also have a client who is an AFLW player. One of her team mates canot train after taking Astrazeneca........ same symptoms as me, cannot raise a gallop without blowing up. So how i'm being told it's not a symptom is beyond me, i mean my social circles aren't that large and i know of one other already.

Interestingly when i had the ICG done, the nurse performing the test told me she'd already had 4 females present just that morning with abnormal heart rythm. This was literally before 11am. I know this issue mainly affects yoinger males, so i was surprised to hear that.

My brotrher in laws brothers son has been in hospital for over 5 weeks in a real bad way from Pfizer. I suspect he gets into steroids a bit so i wonder if there may have been a reaction because of that. I try to be balanced on this subject, but anyone who thinks the the $$$ from big Pharma are not controlling the narrative here are kidding themselves. Shareholders in these companies are rocketing up the world's richest lists as we speak.

The idea that we need to inject children with this is beyond a joke. Likewise, the idea that people who have recovered from Covid need to be vaccinated is equally laughable. Studies in Isreal and now elsewhere are showing natural immunity to be far higher than that of the vaccines. It just seems like the more arms the bigger the dollar signs.

They have a bit of history with kids too:



More food for thought re the bureaucrats who think they can run our lives better than we can ourselves:

Sorry to hear about your condition @frickenel

Romania went antivax, only 36% vaxxed. Ivermectin promoted as a cure on mainstream TV for months.

It's now got one of the highest covid death rates in Europe.
 
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AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
27,168
15,037
Really? Higher than unvaccinated? I haven't seen any credible report that stated that. I have seen nutter websites and their supporters sprouting that there is a greater % of vaccinated people contracting and by extension transmitting COVID, but that's simply their lack of basic mathematics and common sense talking.

Yeah, that's an antivaxxer myth coming from a paper that identified that delta showed a massive viral load increase from non-delta, for both vaxxed and unvaxxed people. The ivermectin anti-vax crowd ran with it so it become "vaxxed people have higher viral loads".

This myth still gets run out today.
 
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