Talking Politics

[MD Jazz]

Similar effects to abolishing negative gearing (rapidly). You will just see rents go up squeezing those worse off and increasing demand for public housing and other types of welfare. This thing needs to be done on new investments and eased on those who already have them. Not an immediate budget sugar hit.

I don't understand this argument and it's thrown out every time their is discussion on eliminating negative gearing.

If you abolish negative gearing and wouldn't you get more houses on the market as people sell off their 2nd, 3rd and sometimes 4th house. More people will buy rather than rent. The total pool of houses remain the same, just the mix of owners to renters would change?

I've posted before how I think negatove gearing only benefits a small section of society and has made already well off people even more well off (on paper at least) at the expense of their fellow taxpayer. Not many cleaners or child-care wporkers own rental properties. And the 50% CG discount is the cherry on top for these people.

That and eliminating refunds of franking credits for superfunds that already don't pay tax would be the first things I would change.

 

[MD Jazz]

Isn't funding on a student basis? So why should a child not receive funding if the parents choose to co-fund their education and send them to an independent school?

 

[Baloo]

Scores of govt schools are as good as private schools

True, but the cost of housing in these areas is ridiculous. My parents live in a catchment area for Glen Waverley High, or whatever it's called now. Non-stop cold calling from real estate agents, promise to sell within a couple of weeks, trying position the sale as 'secret' because they'll only list on WeChat....

 

[Sintiger]

Happiest people in Melbourne this weekend would be the owners of Bellbird. stitched up the L plate health minister has paid per operating theatre $35 million to acquire. Did the deal include staff?

Bellbird is owned by Healthscope who own and run a number of Private hospitals around Australia including Frankston private. They own Knox for instance, Holmesglen Private, Melbourne private and many others. Healthscope is owned by Brookfield asset Management so draw your own conclusions as they are massive asset management and private equity players.

I believe the staff will be offered public sector jobs but it won't be like for like because it is being converted to a surgical hub only so the skill mix will be a little different to what Bellbird does now.

 

[spook]

Thread on the disgusting purchasing of influence by (in this case) Woodside:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558231191475879936

 

[Ralphie]

But will be paying for each of them.

So do you think the private owners should just hand them over for free? It takes more than a year to build new hospitals so this is a quicker way for people to get their surgery. The Blackburn one is a good asset as it has the land for expansion.

 

[Ralphie]

Bellbird is owned by Healthscope who own and run a number of Private hospitals around Australia including Frankston private. They own Knox for instance, Holmesglen Private, Melbourne private and many others. Healthscope is owned by Brookfield asset Management so draw your own conclusions as they are massive asset management and private equity players.

I believe the staff will be offered public sector jobs but it won't be like for like because it is being converted to a surgical hub only so the skill mix will be a little different to what Bellbird does now.

It currently has two theatres and does a heap of day surgery, it will be expanded to four with no disruption to the other two, 95 staff have been offered positions.

 

[RoarEmotion]

Return to government monopolies like Telecom? And the left criticse the Liberals for wanting to live in the 50s.
If Keating thought privatisation was the way forward that's good enough for me.
And Aust Post is still govt run .... one week to deliver a letter from Melb to Syd.

I think where it gets blurry is where effectively the most efficient organisation that delivers also social benefits should be a monopoly. If you want everyone to pay the same price for postage then it has to be government run. A private business basically wouldn’t deliver mail to out of the reach places or charge an arm and a leg. Imagine the city massively subsidises the cost of mail for the country folk.

I sell some stuff on eBay and Sendle for parcels is cheaper than aus post for cbd locations and more expensive when it gets less urban. Over time this should effectively push all the profitable business to sendle and leave aus post with the more costly parts to service and not the large volume postage to subsidise that. Will be interesting how it plays out.

Sendle innovated by basically using other businesses to store parcels Eg I can drop off a parcel at a Bp service station and doesn’t need a store front. They also pick up from your door for the same price but you need to be home.

Without having done an economics thesis on it it seems where both private and public compete, the private is going to basically take the best parts of the business and leave the social benefit stuff to the public organisation which ends up being funded by the taxpayer.

 

[Sintiger]

It currently has two theatres and does a heap of day surgery, it will be expanded to four with no disruption to the other two, 95 staff have been offered positions.

There are a number of activities Bellbird does now it will no longer do, they will need more theatre nurses and of course the medical staff like surgeons & anaesthetists

I am sure many of the staff will be able to be deployed, some may not want to, but a theatre trained nurse is different to a general ward nurse and these are areas where the health system is struggling for staff.

There is a lot of angst in the system right now about money and physical capacity being provided but the staff are not there to do the work, especially with sick leave still very high and a massive backlog of leave

 

[RoarEmotion]

I don't understand this argument and it's thrown out every time their is discussion on eliminating negative gearing.

If you abolish negative gearing and wouldn't you get more houses on the market as people sell off their 2nd, 3rd and sometimes 4th house. More people will buy rather than rent. The total pool of houses remain the same, just the mix of owners to renters would change?

I've posted before how I think negatove gearing only benefits a small section of society and has made already well off people even more well off (on paper at least) at the expense of their fellow taxpayer. Not many cleaners or child-care wporkers own rental properties. And the 50% CG discount is the cherry on top for these people.

That and eliminating refunds of franking credits for superfunds that already don't pay tax would be the first things I would change.

I’m a chemical engineer so I think about the transient/dynamic response of a system as well as the long term / steady state response.

I agree with you in terms of the long term response. Removing it potentially pushes prices down as the investment doesn’t return as much for existing properties. However, It also means less construction though too as less demand for new investment. I’m not sure how these effects would balance out. It could well lead to higher property prices.

In the short term though the marginal supplier of investment property is going to see higher costs and pass them on and if every other owner sees the same that’s what will happen until the long term dynamics settle.

 

[22nd Man]

I think where it gets blurry is where effectively the most efficient organisation that delivers also social benefits should be a monopoly. If you want everyone to pay the same price for postage then it has to be government run. A private business basically wouldn’t deliver mail to out of the reach places or charge an arm and a leg. Imagine the city massively subsidises the cost of mail for the country folk.

I sell some stuff on eBay and Sendle for parcels is cheaper than aus post for cbd locations and more expensive when it gets less urban. Over time this should effectively push all the profitable business to sendle and leave aus post with the more costly parts to service and not the large volume postage to subsidise that. Will be interesting how it plays out.

Sendle innovated by basically using other businesses to store parcels Eg I can drop off a parcel at a Bp service station and doesn’t need a store front. They also pick up from your door for the same price but you need to be home.

Without having done an economics thesis on it it seems where both private and public compete, the private is going to basically take the best parts of the business and leave the social benefit stuff to the public organisation which ends up being funded by the taxpayer.

Agree on your point in price but that is effectively one consumer susidsing another or the taxpayer stumping up.
Bit it doesn't justify the red

There are a number of activities Bellbird does now it will no longer do, they will need more theatre nurses and of course the medical staff like surgeons & anaesthetists

I am sure many of the staff will be able to be deployed, some may not want to, but a theatre trained nurse is different to a general ward nurse and these are areas where the health system is struggling for staff.

There is a lot of angst in the system right now about money and physical capacity being provided but the staff are not there to do the work, especially with sick leave still very high and a massive backlog of leave

So it isn't a lack of staff it's a lack of physical space ?

 

[Sintiger]

So it isn't a lack of staff it's a lack of physical space ?

No, it is both. It is great that the state government is creating physical capacity with Frankston private and bellbird and possibly others. For the amount of elective surgical catch up that is required extra theatre and bed capacity is necessary.
What is concerning is that it is only half the solution because the system needs staff. It needs to attract surgeons to do work in the public system when they can earn more in private, anaesthetists and trained theatre nursing staff. I’m not saying they have a short term solution, no one has, but they announce physical capacity as the solution when those of us in the sector know that on its own it is not enough.

 

[DavidSSS]

The great socialist Premier of the great state of Victoria sends his kids to private schools.........................

Which is precisely why we need the rule that they can't. He, as Premier, is responsible for the State Education system, if it isn't good enough for his kids then why not?

Isn't funding on a student basis? So why should a child not receive funding if the parents choose to co-fund their education and send them to an independent school?

Ok, can I hire private military and get a government subsidy, can I hire private security and get a government subsidy? The state provides education, you want to source it privately, you pay. That includes any school which is not a state school, Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, whatever.

As for privately provided services being somehow more efficient, is there proof of this? I would cite the private medical system in the USA as an example, it is demonstrably not more efficient. I seem to recall there was a lot of regulation to help Ansett compete with TAA and Qantas isn't looking so hot now it is privately owned. Private businesses can be very inefficient, as can publicly owned enterprises.

DS

 

[Tigers of Old]

This is crazy stuff from Scomo.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558934855840563200

 

[tigerman]

This is crazy stuff from Scomo.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558934855840563200

Don't sure who's going to leave behind the worse legacy, Morrison or Trump.

 

[Ian4]

This is crazy stuff from Scomo.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558934855840563200

Not only is he the worst PM in Australian history, but also the worst health minister, finance minister, etc. Albo says he will investigate, but how did the GG let this happen?

 

[Baloo]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559003997260095488

 

[MD Jazz]

Ok, can I hire private military and get a government subsidy, can I hire private security and get a government subsidy? The state provides education, you want to source it privately, you pay. That includes any school which is not a state school, Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, whatever.

DS

Not the same thing David.

 

[tigerman]

Governor General has confirmed that he signed Morrison into the portfolios.

Why the secret, why weren't the relevant cabinet ministers told?

No wonder Morrison told the church congregation not to trust governments.

 

[Baloo]

Governor General has confirmed that he signed Morrison into the portfolios.

Why the secret, why weren't the relevant cabinet ministers told?

No wonder Morrison told the church congregation not to trust governments.

Time to get rid of the G.G. and have an Australian as our Head of State