A Preseason Preview - Part 4 of 16 - Collingwood

[pahoffm]

The Carringbush – Will they have the patience.

Again, as it will be nearly completely Tiger supporters reading this thread I will try to get to the point without waffling on too much about the intricacies of Collingwood.
The Pies look pretty stable. Mick Malthouse continues as coach, and he has assistance from Brad Gotch; Gavin Brown; and Adrian Fletcher returns after spending a year with the Pussies. Was it coincidence that Fletcher was assistant at Collingwood the 2 years that they made the GF, then in his year at Geelong they went up the ladder, time will tell.
Their list including rookies is:

Fanning 204 100 20 Rookie
Fraser 202 97 23
Richards 200 93 22
Hall 198 95 19
Crow 196 92 21 Rookie
Rocca 195 104 28
Walker 195 98 20
Cloke C 195 95 18
Cloke T 195 85 17 New
Prestigiacomo 193 95 27
Tarrant 193 94 24
Davidson 192 88 22
MorrisonB 192 98 19
Wakelin 191 94 30
Clement 190 95 28
Lonie 190 90 22
Maxwell 190 85 22 New
Cloke J 189 95 22
Rusling 189 84 18 New
Rowe 187 73 19
Egan 187 78 18 New
Davies 187 80 18 Rookie
Buckley 186 91 32
Caracella 186 85 27 New
O'Brien 186 83 18 Rookie
Woewodin 185 83 28
Lokan 185 90 22
MorrisonC 183 87 27 New
Williams 183 83 26
Johnson 183 82 23
Swan 183 83 21
King 183 82 20
Didak 182 84 22
Cole 182 86 21
Burns 181 85 28
Shaw H 181 80 19
O'Bree 180 80 26
Holland 180 80 25
Shaw R 180 82 23
Shaw B 180 84 19
Iacobucci 180 79 18 New
Licuria 179 86 27
Benson 179 78 20 Rookie
Lockyer 178 79 25
Davis 178 82 23
Leonard 178 78 20 New


The Magpie’s list has 8 new players compared to our 10 new faces. This has a lot to do with them needing to find  long term replacements for Buckley & Burns. It is interesting that they’ve listed 5 rookies, well it’s nice to have money.

The Pies’s list can be redistributed into a spread which goes:

Twilight = 28+yo
Prime = 25-27yo
Development = 22-24yo
Junior = 18-21yo

Pies
<180 Small Runners
Twilight: 0
Prime: Licuria 27, Lockyer 25
Development: Davis 23
Junior: Benson 20, Leonard 20

Tigers
<180 Small Runners
Twilight: 0
Prime: 0
Development: Krakouer 22,
Junior: Rodan 21, Foley 20,

Pies
180-184 Smaller Mediums
Twilight: Burns 28
Prime: MorrisonC 27, Williams 26, O’Bree 26, Holland 25
Development: Johnson 23, Rshaw 23, Didak 22
Junior: Swan 21, Cole 21, King 20, Hshaw 19, Bshaw 19, Iacobucci 18

Tigers
180-184 Smaller Mediums
Twilight: Chaffey 28
Prime: Brown 27,
Development: Pettifer 23, Newman 23, Hyde 22,
Junior: Hartigan 20, Gilmour 19, Roach 19, Meyer 18, Raines 18, Tambling 18,

Pies
185-189 Taller Mediums
Twilight: Buckley 32, Woewodin 28
Prime: Caracella 27
Development: Lokan 22, JCloke 22
Junior: Rowe 19, Rusling 18, Egan 18, Davies 18, O’Brien 18

Tigers
185-189 Taller Mediums
Twilight: Campbell 32
Prime: Bowden 27, Johnson 27, Hilton 26, Tivendale 26,
Development: Tuck 23, Coughlan 23,
Junior: Jackson 19, Deledio 18, Polo 18,

Pies
190-194 Mobile Key Position
Twilight: Wakelin 30, Clement 28
Prime: Prestigiacomo 27
Development: Tarrant 24, Davidson 22, Lonie 22, Maxwell 22
Junior: MorrisonB 19

Tigers
190-194 Mobile Key Position
Twilight: Graham 32, Gaspar 29, Kellaway 29
Prime: 0
Development: Morrison 24,
Junior: Moore 21, Schulz 20, Archibald 19, Thursfield 19, McGuane 18, Limbach 17

Pies
195-199 Key Position/ Ruck
Twilight: Rocca 28
Prime: 0
Development: 0
Junior: Crow 21, Walker 20, Hall 19, CCloke 18, TCloke 17

Tigers
195-199 Key Position/ Ruck
Twilight: Richardson 30
Prime: Simmonds 27,
Development: Hall 24,
Junior: Pattison 19

Pies
200+ Ruck
Twilight: 0
Prime: 0
Development: Fraser 23, Richards 22
Junior: Fanning 20

Tigers
200+ Ruck
Twilight: Stafford 30
Prime: Knobel 25,
Development: 0
Junior: 0


The Pies are fairly well covered across the ground for both height and age with only holes in 2 areas being:
1) Finding replacements for 2 key players, Buckley & Burns, that the whole team seems to be built around.
2) Prime ruck and KPPs.
Malthouse has thought long term and tried to do it by bringing up juniors. These juniors look to be just a year or two away. It is interesting to note that they’ve recruited 4 new players and 2 rookies in that same height area as Buckley. Malthouse fully knows his list’s strengths and weaknesses, and that’s why he has changed his list. Will Eddie and the Maggot horde have patience? Well it’s in their interest to have it.


The depth of the Pies, in covering injuries, can be seen as follows:

B: Lockyer 25 Wakelin 30 Clement 28
   Shaw R 23 Maxwell 22 Cloke J 22
    Cole 21     Walker 20
    Iacobucci 18

HB: Johnson 23 Prestigiacomo 27 Lonie 22
    Lokan 22      Hall 19       Davidson 22
    Swan 21     Crow 21        Rusling 18
    Davies 18
C Morrison 27

C: O'Bree 26 Buckley 32 Woewodin 28
    Rowe 19 O'Brien 18 Egan 18

HF: Williams 26 Rocca 28 Caracella 27
     King 20    Cloke T 17 Didak 22
                             Shaw H 19

F: Cloke C 18 Tarrant 24 Holland 25
               Morrison 19 Davis 23

R: Fraser 23 Burns 28 Licuria 27
Richards 22 Shaw B 19 Benson 20
Fanning 20                    Leonard 20


The Carringbush’s coverage of the field looks fairly OK except for 2 areas. If their experienced KPPS are knocked out then the replacements look very young. Also their replacements in the centre and on the ball look very young as well.

Conclusion:
The Pies seem relatively easy to place. They will probably have 1 more year like last season. Maybe their juniors and development players may be one year older, but so is Buckley. They rely so heavily on Buckley. That’s why they wanted Stevens so much last year, but Carlton got him, and Carlton improved. Caracella is clearly nowhere near a replacement for Buckley. Why they got him, I don’t know. Yes, the Carringbush will have to be patient until someone grows into Buckley’s shoes.

 

[Dallas]

Great work Phantom. Who's publishing this when it's all done and dusted?

Can we have a party to unveil your review of the top few teams?

 

[pahoffm]

Great work Phantom. Who's publishing this when it's all done and dusted?

Can we have a party to unveil your review of the top few teams?

No one yet. Spoke to one journalist, but he hasn't come back to me yet.
(I sound like a woman the day after she's gone out on her first date.)
So I'm open to any offers.
Even worse, I come very cheap.
And I'm always in for a party.

 

[evo]

Ah the Carringbush.No team has over rated their list more than the Pies.Personally I'm rapt.The drafting of Caracella says alot to me.They think they aren't far away.Guys like him fit in to team having a serious tilt in the next few years ie Saints geelong Weagels etc.Not the Pies imo.They,and most of their supporters think that 2004 was an aberation due to injury.The longer they take to realise that are in need of a total rebuild the happier I am.

I don't need to look at breakdowns and players stats to know that they rely heavily on Figjam,Burns and Shocca.Roc Spider is in his late 20s, Burns and Figjam the wrong side of 30.No one seems to have grasped all 3, due to age, will be spending substantial time in the forward line in future.They have precious few genuine midfielders coming through.Mainly due to their obsession with Shaws. ;D Licuria is a class act,but thats about it.Woewoeful isn't bad but is very much an outside player.Much like our Tivvers.Without Burns getting it out to him he'll be screwed.Ironically they got rid of one of their more promising ,all be it slow,inside midfielders Mcgough but kept squibs like Ryce Shaw,Lokan etc.

Tarrant is a great player,but very erratic.Clement is good,very much like Bowden but is found wanting if forced onto a real big guy like a Tredrea,Hall,Brown etc. Presti was servicble but is now past it.Wakelins last year.

Basically they are relying on the 2nd Shaw,Rayden to come on.Maybe he will but if he doesn't they re in a power of trouble IMO.Guys like Swan,Cole,Williams,Obree and Lokan are not potentially AFL standard midfielders for mine.Didak is a classy player but I'll be suprised if he has what it takes to be a genuine midfieler. Great HFF though.

Guy Richards will probably be quite good,but apart from that I can't see much light for them.

Wooohoo!

 

[the next big thing]

Tarrant development player ? :

 

[TigerMasochist]

I thought Tazza and Browny played under 18s together, surprised he is only 24.

 

[jb03]

have precious few genuine midfielders coming through.Mainly due to their obsession with Shaws. ;

You forgot about their obsessions with the Clokes as well. ;D We'll agree to disagree on pies, I reckon they'll make the 8, lower rungs.

 

[evo]

have precious few genuine midfielders coming through.Mainly due to their obsession with Shaws. ;

You forgot about their obsessions with the Clokes as well. ;D  We'll agree to disagree on pies, I reckon they'll make the 8, lower rungs.

I question your assessment on the Crows as well JB.But you're just back from holiday, so I won't embarass you just yet.

 

[jb03]

have precious few genuine midfielders coming through.Mainly due to their obsession with Shaws. ;

You forgot about their obsessions with the Clokes as well. ;D  We'll agree to disagree on pies, I reckon they'll make the 8, lower rungs.

I question your assessment on the Crows as well JB.But you're just back from holiday, so I won't embarass you just yet.

I had to have a punt on some teams being performing differently from the pack mentality.  There was no danger of anyone else snapping a limb.

Next you'll be telling me Federer will win the Aus Open and Australia the VB Series. ;D

 

[evo]

Next you'll be telling me Federer will win the Aus Open and Australia the VB Series. ;D

Lol.Tennis isn't my thing JB.Don't write the Windies off just yet however,they should be good for a win or two.

Just remember mid last year Struggs and I were lone voices extolling the virtues of Port.You need to pay more attention. Until further notice,it's tha Aints in 2005. Get on while the goings good. 8) These prices wont last. Luke Ball for the brownlow.You see n the size of the lad?

 

[Disco08]

Ball might struggle in the Brownlow only because the likes of Riewoldt, Dal Santo and Gehrig all stand out and may take votes off him. 'Spose it didn't hurt the chances of Voss and co, but still, it can't help. Still, at 66's I guess you can't go too far wrong.

And I agree with you about the Pies JB. I can see them making the 8 quite easily. Not becuase they have a good list, because like Evo says they rely on too few to do too much, but because sometimes when an organisation is run well that success rubs off on the attitude of the team and effects performances. Also, having Malthouse counts for something.

 

[evo]

No doubt Malthouse is a quality match day coach.But I question his list managment.He absolutely ran the Eagles into the ground through his managment of them but no one complained because he delivered the ultimate prize.I see his days at Collingwood as numbered.He got them into the GF in 2002/03 but ultimately failed.I feel he hasn't developed his youth nearly enough.While it is possible that they may scrap into the 8 with some luck with injuries they are on a downwoard spiral IMO.

 

[jb03]

Thank you Disco for your like minded thinking. It is easy to dimiss teams purely on hatred.

One should not be too hasty to dismiss the thought of Evo of course, the man Gerard Daffy and Gary Davies fear.

 

[angel]

2-3 good players supported by an average list with little coming through.

May trouble the odd big team but won't have the consistency againsts teams 6-12 to really make an impact.
No chance

 

[Disco08]

Their 2004 was such an anomaly though. After making 2 straight GF's it was hard to explain such a big drop off. I know they had some injuries, but basically they had the same core of guys, who aside from Buckley were all entering the prime playing years. Even now they have basically the same group that made those GF's, and although they're obviously a couple of years older, only really Buckley is heading out of his prime.

 

[mb64]

Pies have a good coach,may scrape into the 8.

 

[FightingFury]

Ah very interesting these analysis' being done by some of my favorite posters.
The forward line and guts will be the Scums achillies for me.
If Tarrant gets hurt,or goes of the boil (as he does) they're left with more cats than an African jungle.
R Shaw,Caracella,Didak,NeonLeon,Woewodin....hahaha I would back The queer eye blokes in a royal rumble against that lot of pixie fairies.
They lack superstar quality,and Im a Buckley fan too,maybe the most consistent player Ive seen as well as superfit and superskilled but not a matchwinner ie Carey or Hird.
Rocca cry baby is over rated.Ditto Fraser.
Presti is a big weak link down back in an otherwise resonable defense.
Licuria is a good hard player,as is Burns.I can't see who else will be any good in the guts?
They do have a great coach,and the best facilities under the sun to help them out,but 9-12 for me.

Wise man Evo..Saints and Ball double = Great value that I'll be having a go at!

 

[the claw]

what i like about them is the fact they have 17 genuine talls on their list. in a couple of yrs they should have an excellent spine to build a team around.their weakness is they lack quality harrd at it on ballers and have a lot of soft *smile* getting a game. in caracella woe woe neon leon ha ha ha sorry guys every time i think of him i crack up.holland buckly yes buckly all class but plays soft imo. fraser shaw im sure i missed a few but what the heck.

 

[Silent Bob]

If Tarrant gets hurt,or goes of the boil (as he does) they're left with more cats than an African jungle.
R Shaw,Caracella,Didak,NeonLeon,Woewodin....hahaha I would back The queer eye blokes in a royal rumble against that lot of pixie fairies.

ROFLMAO, absolutely priceless struggs.

 

[johnson2richo2003]

Ah the Carringbush.No team has over rated their list more than the Pies.Personally I'm rapt.The drafting of Caracella says alot to me.They think they aren't far away.Guys like him fit in to team having a serious tilt in the next few years ie Saints geelong Weagels etc.Not the Pies imo.

Good pickup evo.
reminds me of a certain coach who decided to pick up a similar type of player to Caracella a few years ago to put the icing on the cake. ;D