An Enormous Decision for Indigenous Australians.

[Liverpool]

So all the decision say is: 'we admit you fellas used to own the land and have never actually left, but nothing can happen that affects any existing whita land interests'

So in other words the decision in practical terms is symbolic recognition.

Yet our enlightened PM and the Labor state government have 'grave concerns' and will appeal. Talk about a bunch of tight arses. I hate this prick.

Say 'sorry.' Howard, you deleted!

Tigersnake/Lefty,

Firstly, what Is John Howard supposed to be saying sorry for?

Secondly, you, I, and the majority of Australians, all know, that by saying "Sorry" will lead to legal action after legal action in the courts, with millions of dollars being spent (which could go to more relevant and needy areas of our society) on defence lawyers and attorneys, etc...with possibly, many more millions paid out in "compensation".

If John Howard saying "Sorry" wasn't about money, then it would be only a "symbolic recognition" of events that occurred well before my time, and I am sure that its not "symbolic recognition" that you crave.

And the prize for the most hypocritical statement on the forum for 2006 goes to.....*drum roll*

I don't like the way our country is going. In spite of all the hype about how tough and stoic us Aussies are, we seem to be becoming scared, precious, intolerant sooks. Thats not the Australia I knew or want.

....well done Tigersnake! :clap


I'd like to think that it is only a 'minority' of Aborigines who continually play the persecution and racism cards, to try and justify ANY decision that goes against them.
But here you are using words such as "intolerant sooks" to describe Australians....hmmm.....pot, kettle, black...ring a bell?

For argument's sake, who really cares if they weren't the original owners of that particular piece of dirt? I don't. To me that really doesn't have much to do with their protest, which was to draw attention to the plight of Australian aborigines during a national and international sporting event. The key point is that because this particular protest was one that many people didn't agree with, or felt uncomfortable about, we question and undermine the legitimacy of it. For a country that is supposed to be tough and brave, its weak as *smile*.

Please don't mention that joke of a 'protest'..... :

Let's look at the facts:

* You have a bloke called Robbie Thorpe, who really doesn't even know where he is from....even fellow Aboriginals do not know:

"Robbie Thorpe is from the Krautungalung people of the Gunnai Nation, the traditional owners of Lake Tyers.."

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/ILB/2000/4.html

and then this:

Robbie Thorpe, a 39-year-old, first-year Melbourne University law student and a member of the Brabuwooloong clan, walked into the Melbourne registry of the High Court in 1997 and began the process of taking Australia to the World Court to decide who has the right to hear and decide cases involving sovereignty over the land known as the Commonwealth of Australia

http://www.activistrights.org.au/PayTheRent.asp

So here we have a so-called Aboriginal elder, who seems to be an elder in just about any tribe he thinks will bring him media attention, and we're supposed to take him seriously, and the protest seriously?
C'mon.....gimme a break...!

P.S: I wonder if Robbie will be saying "sorry" for the education he seems to have acquired at Melbourne Uni as well.....or is it just take, take, take for these people?
An education that he wouldn't have if it wasn't for the Australian Government and the taxpaying Australian people.
And we're supposed to be saying sorry?
What a joke! :rofl

 

[eight ace]

Obviously you have never heard of HECS.

The decision by Justice Wilcox is a little surprising. I have followed the development of native title law since before the Mabo No. 2 judgment was originally handed down, and I did not anticipate that it would still be seen to exist in the hands of a group of largely urbanised aboriginal people. The rights that are seen to exist are usufructuary rights and the scaremongering by Ruddock, Eggleston and others is really way off the mark and they know it.

 

[Liverpool]

Obviously you have never heard of HECS.

Of course I've heard of HECS....

But what has HECS got to do with my post?

 

[tigersnake]

NO... don't say sorry Howard....unless you want our country sued for trillions.

grow a brain.  It amazes me how the leftys always get accused of scaremongering, yet the right hold baseless, misinformed, plain mean views like this.

Either you are a simpleton, or don't have much compassion, or both, take your pick.

Well Rattlesnake,it's the unprovoked insult that makes one wonder about the size of your brain too. Compassion has nothing to do with it. As far as I'm concerned, I don't owe anyone, anything. I pay my taxes, from which I'm sure the Aborigines get a nice cut. I hope our P.M. NEVER says sorry. What's there to be sorry for? The Canadians fell into the 'Sorry' trap, and it cost them heaps.

What have the blacks ever done to you Ibramovic?  Your statement, not just the substance of it but the tone as well, was provocative.  You only ever come on PRE when there’s a thread on blackfellas.  And you only ever whinge about how they get too much or how they whinge or whatever.  You like a little annoying yap dog that won’t stop barking.  Your Canadian comment is wrong firstly, secondly the State governments have apologised, they used to have full responsibility for Aboriginal Affairs prior to Constitutional change in 1967.  And guess what?  They have’nt been sued.  The Northern Territory government was sued for compo for forcibly removing children, but it wasn’t billions let alone trillions and the case failed anyway.

As for not oweing anyone anything.  Geez I do.  I owe my brother $50 for taking 5 goals in on Freo last Friday.  I owe another friend a roast dinner, the government $4K unpaid HECS, my parents, bloody heaps now I think about it, I don’t even want to think about it.  My grade 4 and year 9 teachers were pretty cool too, I owe them one.  And just generally the community for letting me live a good life in such a great country.  Still a great country, notwithstanding the petty bitterness of some of its citizens.

As for Liverpool’s post, there is no point responding.  I honestly can’t tell what your point is, but its very clear what your views are.

 

[Liverpool]

As for not oweing anyone anything.  Geez I do.  I owe my brother $50 for taking 5 goals in on Freo last Friday.  I owe another friend a roast dinner, the government $4K unpaid HECS, my parents, bloody heaps now I think about it, I don’t even want to think about it.  My grade 4 and year 9 teachers were pretty cool too, I owe them one.  And just generally the community for letting me live a good life in such a great country.  Still a great country, notwithstanding the petty bitterness of some of its citizens.

As for Liverpool’s post, there is no point responding.  I honestly can’t tell what your point is, but its very clear what your views are.

If you can't tell what my point is Tigersnake, then I wouldn't be paying the rest of my HECS, in fact, I'd be asking for a refund!  :hihi

......but I think its more than likely you have NO answer to explaining Robbie Thorpe and his "multiple tribal leader" charades, do you?
Or why you call Australians "intolerant sooks", when there are Aborigines out there playing the persecution and race cards whenever they get the opportunity?
Or what John Howard should be saying "Sorry" for?

You are right Tigersnake....there is no point responding....especially when you have no answers to give.

But I am very glad you at least understand what my views are, and I'm tipping, a view that is similar to the majority of Australians, hence another reason why John Howard refuses to say 'Sorry', and keeps getting re-elected.

 

[tigersnake]

All of the questions and issues you raise have been discussed in some legnth on past threads on other aboriginal topic, Hayfever, Razor and Hopper from memory. Its obviously all in one ear and out the other, hence, no point.

 

[poppa x]

and then this:

Robbie Thorpe, a 39-year-old, first-year Melbourne University law student and a member of the Brabuwooloong clan, walked into the Melbourne registry of the High Court in 1997 and began the process of taking Australia to the World Court to decide who has the right to hear and decide cases involving sovereignty over the land known as the Commonwealth of Australia

http://www.activistrights.org.au/PayTheRent.asp

Wow - someone who took 38 years to finish High School!  That's nearly as long as me!  :rofl

 

[Chelsea]

Rattlesnake... I think you should have posted your reply to me on the Joke thread, because I can't stop laughing. :rofl I simply made a statement...nothing provoctive about it, but because I didn't agree with you and your lefty views, then you resort to insult, and get all huffy about it. How do you know 'my tone'? You know nothing about me, so I could have more knowledge of Aboriginals that you do. I think your referral to them as 'blacks/blackfellas' could be seen as racist anyhow. As far as owing your brother $50- for backing Freo... well that to me, shows that you are a loser anyhow. ;D Everyone and his dog knew Sydney would win that one. :hihi If you want go around owing your family and friends for this, that and anything else, well that is your/their problem. I've paid my HECS, I work hard and don't run up debts to bet on loser footy teams. In all fairness the Aboriginals have the same opportunities as everyone else in this country... maybe more so, and I personally don't think society here owes them anything. Maybe I would support them more if I could see that they were trying to do more for themselves, instead of running around causing mayhem, and expecting more handouts. I I have said before, I hope our P.M. never says sorry. As far as 'The Stolen Generation' goes.....that would be the biggest crock of **** going around. No real proof of that either.
AND as far as me only posting on threads such as this, maybe you should take another look. Sure, I don't post too often, but do so when I have something to say. An empty can makes the most noise you know. :hihi

 

[Rayzorwire]

As far as 'The Stolen Generation' goes.....that would be the biggest crock of **** going around. No real proof of that either.

Yet another staggeringly ignorant comment...where do you come up with this crap?

 

[Liverpool]

Say 'sorry.' Howard,

What for?

Indeed. :clap

All of the questions and issues you raise have been discussed in some legnth on past threads on other aboriginal topic, Hayfever, Razor and Hopper from memory. Its obviously all in one ear and out the other, hence, no point.

No, no one has explained to me why Robbie Thorpe seems to be an elder for every Aboriginal tribe that will allow him his 15-minutes of fame on TV....and no one has given any of us here....myself, Rosy, TigerGoneNorth, etc, a real answer for what the Australian Prime Minister should be saying "Sorry" for.

You gave a nuff-nuff answer on page-1 of this thread, about what happened the Libs did pre-1967, and what Bjelke-Petersen did in Queensland in the mid-80's, but c'mon...you can't really think these two 'incidents' is what all the "Sorry" debate is about now, otherwise this makes your "intolerant sooks" comment more of a bigger hypocritical statement than it originally was.

I want a real answer, for once.

 

[Rosy]

Leave me out of your debates please livers. I don't think that there's any need for John Howard to personally say sorry but I think my reasons are very different to yours.

That's a very low comment about the stolen generation Chelsea.

 

[Liverpool]

Leave me out of your debates please livers.  I don't think that there's any need for John Howard to personally say sorry but I think my reasons are very different to yours.

That's a very low comment about the stolen generation Chelsea.

Rosy,
You asked the same question I want answered.

What Howard should be saying 'sorry' for?

Simple as that.

 

[tigersnake]

As I said Liverpool, indigenous issues have been discussed in pretty reasonable detail, especially considering its a footy site, on past threads on Aborigines.  From memory Hopper and Razor wrote some good stuff on it that made sense to me.

Chelsea, you never respond to any evidence I put up to support an argument, ever.  You just ignore it and plough on regardless with your Jerry Springer philosophies, why do I bother?

Re the sorry thing Liverpool, first, I didn't start it lefty did.  I was just responding to some typically mean and misinformed reactionary posts.  I'm with Rosy in that I'm over it, but unlike Rosy I think there are plenty of very compelling arguments for it to happen.

If you and your mate the Russian zillionaire are genuinely interested in these issues, and I very much doubt that you give a sh!t really, I refer you  firstly to the previous discussions on PRE, although that would seem to be pointless because you ignored all evidence at the time.  Second, here is some very good reading on the subject:

'The Other Side of the Frontier' Henry Reynolds.  (Brilliant historical account of black guerilla resistance during early colonisation)

White Politics and Black Australians: Scott Bennett (Very good easy read about the historical, cultural and racial barriers to the current political system for blacks)

The History Wars; Stuart Macintyre: (very good book about Howard's pretty clumsy attempts to rewrite history)

Telling the Truth about Aboriginal History; Bain Attwood (another good read on the history wars)

The Way we Civilise ; Ros Kidd (My favourite. Incredible book about how the Queensland government implemented policies to keep blacks isolated, impoverished and disempowered for over 100 years until the late 1980s. Some examples include intercepting federal child endowment for blacks for consolidated revenue, and trying to starve out, then burning down an Aboriginal Community on the site of a huge Bauxite deposit. All the blacks wanted was a job at the mine. The author got complete access to government files after the end of the Joh era in 1989)

The Fabrication of Aboriginal History; Keith Windshuttle (presents the right wing Howard view of history.  You'll probably like this one. Makes a few good points, but more about examples of shoddy work by a few of the numerous historians he opposes, rather than actually making a strong claim about history being different.  BUT unlike you Liverpool, I like to look at both sides of an argument before making up my mind on important issues).

 

[tigersnake]

Another good book that puts the black plight in a context we all relate to

Brother Boys ; Sean Gorman

scoop put me on to this very good book on the Krakouer Brothers, their lives as being black as well as footy stars.

 

[Chelsea]

Tigersnake.. It's really pointless in following up on anything with you, as you resort to insult, and it turns into a slanging match, which I really don't have the time or the inclination to be bothered with. You say you look at both sides of an issue before making up your mind, but having done that, it will always be a decision leaning to the left, that you will favour. That's the way you are it seems. What you and a few others here don't seem to grasp is, that a forum is generally where a person can have an opinion, without being insulted and bullied. I simply put one line on here, stating my opinion, as a previous poster had said that he/she thought that the P.M. should have said sorry. I don't agree with that, and never will, but I wasn't nasty or insulting towards that person, or anyone else here. I'd be happy to follow up, if it was with someone who could be sensible about the issue, and not be so huffy.

Rosy... We all have our own opinions... or at least we should be able to. My thought on the Stolen Generation is as previously stated, unless someone can prove it happened. Even some of the Aboriginal people who were supposed to be those who were stolen, have come into the public arena and said it's not true.

 

[an_oxford_man]

Liverpool,

What is the point of this Chelsea character?

Is it just a startling coincidence that another poster could rival you for ignorance and bigotry?

I sincerely hope that Chelsea is you as the thought of their actually being another person out there with views like yours is horrifying.

P.S: Please edit that disgraceful stolen generation remark.

 

[tigersnake]

My thought on the Stolen Generation is as previously stated, unless someone can prove it happened. Even some of the Aboriginal people who were supposed to be those who were stolen, have come into the public arena and said it's not true.

there you go again Chelsea.

I just posted a heap off books by extremely learned people who have researched the topic for years, collected evidence, and put it together into a book. Yet you completely ignore it and say 'unless someone can prove..." They've done it Chelsea. And there's plenty more where that came from. But it doesn't matter does it Chelsea, you still beleive what you want to believe. And that isn't an insult, its as plain as day.

 

[AngryAnt]

My thought on the Stolen Generation is as previously stated, unless someone can prove it happened. Even some of the Aboriginal people who were supposed to be those who were stolen, have come into the public arena and said it's not true.

there you go again Chelsea.

I just posted a heap off books by extremely learned people who have researched the topic for years, collected evidence, and put it together into a book. Yet you completely ignore it and say 'unless someone can prove..." They've done it Chelsea. And there's plenty more where that came from. But it doesn't matter does it Chelsea, you still beleive what you want to believe. And that isn't an insult, its as plain as day.

I think you'll find that Liverpool doesn't read books Snake. Don't know about Chelsea but signs are not good there either.

 

[Curtiger]

I want a real answer, for once.

:cutelaugh

:rofl

:rotfl

But seriously...If I may borrow a Chelsea zinger here, that reply should've been on the joke board, because I can't stop laughing.

 

[Rayzorwire]

My thought on the Stolen Generation is as previously stated, unless someone can prove it happened. Even some of the Aboriginal people who were supposed to be those who were stolen, have come into the public arena and said it's not true.

Yes, just like the holocaust, it was all a figment of the victims' imagination. One wonders what various members of government, those involved in the assimilation, 'education' or adoption of children, and the people themselves were even talking about when we look back at the abundant written evidence.

They imagined and invented the whole thing, then wrote copious submissions to government and the media about the matter.

If only Chelsea's ancestor had stepped forward and sent in his written submission relating that the entire Stolen Generation was under the bridge with him having a tea party and dining well on sugar coated spam, this great historical mistake could have been corrected and the real truth would be known. :spin

Even the most bigoted of stooges in the Liberal Party, don't deny that the children were stolen or that they existed - their limp semantic argument is that there wasn't enough children to warant calling it a 'generation'...because it wasn't every last child. Of course, it's fine to talk about losing two generations of Australian men in the two World Wars...because obvious double standards are the stock in trade of professional lying conservatives.

Conratulations Chelsea, your 'views' indicate that you'd be too ignorant of universally accepted history and bigoted to even run as a One Nation candidate...you'd embarrass them too much. :clap