Boat Discussion

[Baloo]

Not sure I agree Baloo/Azza.

I was never under the illusion that you would agree.

Edit: Correct the typo

 

[Peaka]

Not sure what the purpose of the "no" in your post was Baloo.

Can't see any part of my post that implied you were under any illusion (of agreement or otherwise).

 

[AngryAnt]

I understand the politics behind the motion but sets a pretty slippery slope for any future government with a hostile senate.

In essence a senate could pass a motion requiring reporting on all manner of things which would make government almost unworkable. Interesting times.

Here we are talking about the "Stop the Boats" promise that Abbott must have repeated about a hundred times during the election campaign - of course he must be judged on the success or failure to deliver on that promise without hiding behind some sort of official secrecy nonsense.

 

[Azza]

In addition the motion ignores the fact that one operational strategy deployed by the present government to reduce the number of boat arrivals (and also deaths at sea for that matter) was to reduce the incessant media reporting which was seen as being advertising for the people smugglers. If boat arrivals increase after the motion is put into effect I guess the conservatives will be proven correct that the constant reporting is part of the problem. The truth will be in the numbers I guess.

I might agree with you if Abbott in opposition didn't trumpet arrivals all over the media and make as much political capital about each as possible. Also, the agents and asylum seekers are all in mobile phone contact, so the silence can have no operational purpose. The silence is also not limited to the boats, but other matters such as the reason for the $200bn credit limit increase. It's clearly part of a political strategy to generally keep the public in the dark, not an operational strategy relating to boats.

Pleasingly on the issue it appears that under the new policy that boat arrivals have been reduced. In addition I understand that there have, as yet, been no deaths at sea of boat people attempting to come to Australia since the election. This has to be a good thing.

Too early to judge if that's due to the new Government or due to the PNG solution.

 

[KnightersRevenge]

The Senate, from what I can see, are just asking the government to list the self imposed media blackout on the boats. Basically restoring what has been in place for years, from both sides of government.

I like the "idea" that government slow down the media machine.

 

[Brodders17]

I might agree with you if Abbott in opposition didn't trumpet arrivals all over the media and make as much political capital about each as possible.

i think it is pretty well accepted that Abbott and the Libs had no regard for the national interest in their pursuit of power.

 

[happytige]

Thanks Spook and Knighter for your compassionate views on this issue.

I find it hard to believe the cruelty that Scott Morrison and Tony Abbott display....not that the Gillard government was any better. Stories I have heard of the conditions on Manus Island would break your heart. The hypocrisy of both parties pretending that they are motivated by concern for deaths at sea i "leaky boats" makes me sick.

And these leaders call themselves Christians!!!!

 

[Rosy]

I wouldn't feel so safe if people could just enter Australia freely with no restrictions or government input. Don't you think people entering need to be processed and recorded in any way? Do you think they should be entitled to welfare, health benefits etc?

In regard to this I am appalled that an asylum seeker was separated from her new born baby and that a Christmas Island detention centre worker had sex with a detainee. Shame. Shame.

I can't see how the scenario of people being allowed to go where they want without government interferance could work. The govt needs to be involved so asylum seekers have access to any benefits, protection and security. I'd be concerend for the welfare of people who arrive in droves and have to fend for themselves without any records or official identity.

 

[Sintiger]

In regard to this I am appalled that an asylum seeker was separated from her new born baby and that a Christmas Island detention centre worker had sex with a detainee. Shame. Shame.

and what was our prime Minister's reaction? Basically he said she was an illegal boat person so she deserved it.

Now we are giving new patrol boats to Sri Lanka to help them stop people escaping on boats. They would be better supporting David Cameron in trying to bring to account the Sri Lankan Government for the genocide post Tamil Tigers and the continuing "disappearance" of people in Jafna. If the tamils felt safe in their own country many less would want to leave.

Our foreign policy under Labor in this area was poor, it is now embarassing.

 

[Rosy]

I find the lack of compassion hard to take. We can send boats back. We can turn a blind eye and sell out to Sri Lanka. We can try and force/pawn people off on other countries. Sadly it seems the plight of the asylum seekers isn't much of a consideration. We can wash our hands of the suffering while we enjoy our life of comparative luxury as long as they don't come near us. I'd love to read about what we are actively doing to improve these peoples' lives rather than how we brush them aside.

 

[Sintiger]

I find the lack of compassion hard to take. We can send boats back. We can turn a blind eye and sell out to Sri Lanka. We can try and force/pawn people off on other countries. Sadly it seems the plight of the asylum seekers isn't much of a consideration. We can wash our hands of the suffering while we enjoy our life of comparative luxury as long as they don't come near us. I'd love to read about what we are actively doing to improve these peoples' lives rather than how we brush them aside.

Exactly. Whatever we think the policy should be human compassion is sorely missing in the way we talk about these people.

We can't solve the Sri Lankan problems but we can do some things and we shouldn't be denying that these things even exist, which is what the Sri lankan Government does. There was a wonderful Panorama profile on it done a couple of years ago that was also shown on Four Corners. Last year when Julie Bishop was shadow foreign Minister she went to Sri Lanka and was standing next to the Sri Lankan PM agreeing that Human rights abuses against Tamils didn't exist I know someone who was there at the very same time. That person was in the north helping to deal with the reconstruction of that area working for an international NGO and hearing the stories from people of family members who had disappeared and the Sri Lankan Government is denying they disappeared. Hundreds and thousands of them. The vast majority of these people were not Tamil tiger fighters, they just lived in the area that used to be controlled by them. It is actually dangerous for aid workers because they cannot directly deal with issues that are caused by something the Sri Lankan government says never happened.

I know it makes the turn back the boats story easier when we deny these things are happening, it's the easy way out. The active support of that Government by ours makes me sick to the stomach. It takes moral courage which seems to be what David Cameron is willing to show but not our PM and not the previous Government either I would add. Our view is that as long as these people don't come to Australia we don't care.

 

[spook]

It's despicable.

 

[Azza]

""An analysis of week-on-week boat arrivals in the period from July 19, when Kevin Rudd announced the ''Papua New Guinea solution'', shows the rate of arrivals has fallen steadily but the drop was most pronounced before the Abbott government was sworn in.

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Bulk of drop in boat arrivals was under Labor

The bulk of the dramatic fall in asylum-seeker boat arrivals happened under Labor's last-ditch Papua New Guinea deal announced before the election campaign, a Fairfax Media analysis shows.

An analysis of week-on-week boat arrivals in the period from July 19, when Kevin Rudd announced the ''Papua New Guinea solution'', shows the rate of arrivals has fallen steadily but the drop was most pronounced before the Abbott government was sworn in.

Labor and the Coalition slugged it out over the issue on Friday, each putting forward statistics that purported to show their policies were responsible.

At his weekly briefing, Immigration Minister Scott Morrison said there had been a 79.3 per cent drop in the eight weeks since he introduced the military-led Operation Sovereign Borders on September 18 compared with the eight previous weeks.

''The pre-Operation Sovereign Borders comparison period falls wholly within the post July 19 period during which the previous government's … arrangements were put in place,'' Mr Morrison said. ''This means that the 79.3 per cent reduction has been made in addition to the impacts of the previous government's announcements.''

During the eight weeks since the tough new regime, there have been 707 compared with 3426 in the eight weeks before, which is indeed a drop of 79.3 per cent.

However, most of that drop occurred during the eight weeks before Operation Sovereign Borders began.

In the first half of that period, in the early days of the Papua New Guinea policy, 2649 people arrived by boat. In the second half, 777 arrived, which is a 70.1 per cent drop. The number of people then dropped to 378 in the first four weeks of Operation Sovereign Borders - a 51.4 per cent drop - and down to 329 in the second four weeks of the policy, a further 13 per cent drop.

That means the bulk of the drop happened while the ''Papua New Guinea solution'' was in effect but not Operation Sovereign Borders.

Since the Coalition was sworn in on September 18, it has clamped down on information about boat arrivals and incidents at sea. Mr Morrison has said Australian Federal Police operations in Indonesia have been gathering pace. However, he has refused to give any information about boat turnarounds or buy-backs.

Labor's immigration spokesman, Richard Marles, said neither policy had been implemented.

''The Coalition promised to turn back the boats. They haven't turned back any,'' he said. ''The Coalition said they would buy boats in Indonesia. They haven't bought a single one.

''In the last two weeks before the election, we were down to one boat arrival per week. That was a 90 per cent reduction on the number of people who were arriving at the time of the PNG arrangement.''

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/bulk-of-drop-in-boat-arrivals-was-under-labor-20131115-2xmd2.html#ixzz2krYHkoxp

 

[MB78]

Bulk of drop in boat arrivals was under Labor

As was the bulk of the increases under the Rudd/Gillard government, and our national shame of the deaths at sea.

As stated earlier we need a national policy on what population that we think we can sustain while maintaining current living standards. Until this can be answered people will fear immigration and the face of it boat people. We need buy in from Australia's voting public so that it becomes a vote catcher for the right reasons.

 

[Azza]

As stated earlier we need a national policy on what population that we think we can sustain while maintaining current living standards. Until this can be answered people will fear immigration and the face of it boat people. We need buy in from Australia's voting public so that it becomes a vote catcher for the right reasons.

I agree entirely MB

The post was a response to people such as Peaka who are claiming credit for the Abbott govt.

Pleasingly on the issue it appears that under the new policy that boat arrivals have been reduced. In addition I understand that there have, as yet, been no deaths at sea of boat people attempting to come to Australia since the election. This has to be a good thing.

 

[Browndog]

Just my opinion but Cameron told it like it is, Abbott just was Abbott. It is a disgrace we have such a person representing us on a national stage.

 

[happytige]

Thanks fully it seems that David Cameron as well as the Canadian and the Indian governments are prepared to stand up to the Sri Lankan genocide.

I still have nightmares when I remember the 4 Corners program showing film of atrocities involving Sri Lankan forces:- murder and raping of Tamil civilians after the Civil war. Yet there was a much greater backlash in Australia against the cruel slaughter of cattle in Indonesian abattoirs.

Our government is only concerned with "stopping the boats" and has never acknowledged the plight of the Tamil community (nor the journalists who have been prevented from reporting on this issue).

 

[KnightersRevenge]

Here is a link to the Channel 4 doco that Cameron watched before his statement.

http://www.channel4.com/news/sri-lanka-disappeared-white-vans-missing-people-war-chogm

 

[happytige]

Thanks KR. Another powerful video, but one I am sure Tony Abbott would be far too busy to watch!

 

[poppa x]

I see no-one has commented on last night's 4 Corners about people smugglers.
I suggest you check out the ABC podcast.
It puts boat people, smugglers and the hypocrisy of the Indonesian Government in perspective.
For example, the boat that sank off the coast of Java killing about 35 people, phoned Australia's defence forces who told them to take a GPS reading off their phone.
They were told we'd send a boat and a plane, but the plane would get their first, so look out for a plane and when you see it overhead, phone us back so we know exactly where you are.
The plane took off but was denied entry to Indonesian Air Space.
The media then took over the "spin" saying we failed to rescue them, even though some survivors SWAM back to shore.

What did a once famous greenie say "an inconvenient truth"?