Bulls and Bears | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Bulls and Bears

frickenel

Tiger Champion
Jul 30, 2003
2,637
1,895
Hidden Valley
Too much time on my hands today, laying around after minor knee surgery so i thoguht i'd give a little summary on our kids

Looking at the list, there's a lot of new talent that we haven't even unwrapped yet. The side could look vastly different by midway through 2024

If you were to go a "Bulls and Bears" analysis, in my view it would look something like this:

49 Kaylen Smith Bullish (A+)
Looked like a jet in te pre-season before injury struck. Should be pushing for selection given he can get a full pre-season in, along with extra physical maturity. Looks like more than just a half back flanker to me.

48 Steely Green (B)
I hear big wraps on him, but from what i've seen, i'm not super bullish, but may have just watched the wrong games. Fingers crossed.

47 Biggy (B)
Have seen some really good signs in the games i've seen him play, but doesn't seem to have come back with the same form since his injury. There's a few in front of him at this stage

46 Miller (B) Was more bullish last year. He looks okay, but his improvement graph seems to have levelled off a little. That might be in part because of the way we've thrown him around. I'd love to see him improve his core as he seems to get moved too easily. But he has a good leap and is extremely athletic. Could be a very valuable swing man down the track with further development. During the Saints game, i did feel he made a point of trying to not get moved out of marking competitions as he seemed better than i'd seen in the past in that game in particular. More than handy with his tap work in the middle when used there, particularly for a guy that isn't quote 200cm tall.

45 Young (A+)
Considering how little time this guy has been in the game, he is improving literally by the game. I think he will be a lot more than a stopper in the Presti mould inside 12 months. Has good skills and moves real good. Was a bit of an octypus in his early games, which a Richmond player won't get away with, and was gave away a few free kicks accordingly. It's not like he's going to get away with what a Sam De Koning will in a Geelong jumper.

44 Seth Campbell (A++)
Seen bugger all of this kid, but in the little glimpses in the pre season, he reminded me of what i thought when i first saw Liam Baker runngi around in those 8 player per side games a few pre seasons back. Different type of player, but he just looks like he belongs on a footy field. Looks like a natural footballer. Personally, from a small sample i think he will be a gun.

43 Jacon Bauer (A+)
What i like about this kid is that he sees ball and he goes for it. He doesn't die wondering, and usually these types will transition from VFL to AFL much better. There's not much of him, but earlier in the season i was hoping they'd bring him in to play the Josh Caddy role and let him fly at everything. Without a second tall with a developed body, JR is getting mauled. It reminds me of the Geelong game at Sh!tty Litter Stadium in 2017 when Josh Caddy got injured in the opening minutes. Our smalls were out of the game as JR got double teamed at every contest. It looks like the club has a different role for him, but if you played Jack alongside Cumberland and Bauer, i think there'd be a lot more movement in the forward line, and far less intercept marking.

42 Judson Clark (A+)
This kid is a jet. Clean and sublime skills. Needs to become a little more prolific, but that will come with a tank. And we need to play through him more often. He's really good in a contest, and seems to know how to spoil a ball to his own advantage which is great to see from a kid with so little experiece.

41 Sam Banks (A+)
I was a little bit 'meh' when watching him in the VFL, but i'm far more bullish after his one senior appearance, despite some of the poor disposal. The poor disposal was mixed in with other disposals which were great kicks off either foot. They wouldn't be giving him kick out duties in his fiorst game if his skills were garbage. Let's but the poor ones down to first game nerves. He did some great contest work, and i think aquitted himself very well against some big names in a very important and tight game.

40 Tyler Sonsie (A+)
His graph has levelled off alarmingly this year, but you have to bear in mind he lost his pre-season to injury. I'm very bullish for 2024 on this kid. We need him to come through , because we need his skills around the middle given the two GWS boys can spray it around a little.

39 Mate Colina (D)
Only because he needs so much development that it's a shame he's lost a whole year. I did like the fact he attacked marking contests with vigor last year, not so great he held almost none of them, and needs a stack of work on his kicking.

38 Noah Cumberland (A+)
Despite needin ga pre-season with the Richmond Psychologist. Super quick off 10 yars which alllows him to make something out of nothing. His brain is super quick as are his feet, but it seems he's massively concerned with what others are thinking about him, and projects that like the kid in the school yard who tries too hard to be liked, instead of just concentrating on the next passage of play or next contest. He's so easily in our best 22 that it's not funny. In some respects, i think his talent is wasted as purely a mid forward. I think he has the ability to provide drive further afield and then float into the forward line. Massive hopes on this kid.

37 Kaelan Bradke (C)
For a lump of a lad, get's outmarked too easily, but it looks like we have some tools to work with. Needs a bit of development.

36 James Trezise (A+)
I think this kid is going to be another jet we've picked out of nowhere. Apparently there are some knocks on his skills, but that hasn't stood out too much from what i've seen. Has the closing speed to cover half the back line. He's the sort of player you could use as the rear guard when everyone is pressing up, because he's a competative beast and can cover ground so quick. Once Rance went down, i felt we didsn't press up as much to hold the ball forward because we were getting hurt when the opposition got out the back. Guys like this, can allow a press to be more aggressive in my opinion.

32 Sampson Ryan (A+)
Has a way to go, but is developing nicely. For mine, he could be our version of a Tim English, but with better forward craft, and better ruck craft, so all in all, a better version of Tim English. That makes sense too, since Tim English's head looks like it does'nt belong on an AFL footy field. It looks like it belongs in a 1950's kitchen on a 1950's housewife, whereas Sampson Ryans head looks like it belongs in the Primal cartoon series on the lead caveman character.

31 Rhyan Mansell (B+)
Almost an A for bullishness. I wanted him delisted at the end of last year becauswe he seemd to always give away a stupid free kick at the wrong time. That seems to be out of his game, and i'm now loving the way he goes about it. You never die wondering with his effort. Still very young, so if he can keep improving, he could be a real asset.

30 Tom Brown (A+)
Another with a massive pre-season and then a lost year to injury. I can see guys like Brown and Kaylan Smith being a lot more than half back flanks, and moving further up the ground. Very Bullish

28 Josh Gibcus (A+)
Shame he's lost a year but talent is obvious

27 Thompson Dow (C-)
Very bearish withthis kid, partly becaue i doubt we can have anmother mid with average skills givben what we've invested in the two GWS boys, who are great extracors ut a bit shabby with their disposal.

26 Matthew Coullthard (B-)
Hoping i'm wrong, but i don't see as much pace as has been talked about, but i have seen bugger all of this kid, so not really in a position to pass any accurate judgement.

13 Hugo Ralphsmith (B-)
I like Ralphsmith and he he's competative and moves well, but his decision making worries me. Generally speaking i think his skills are good, but he seems to see Richmond jumper and release to Richmond jumber regardless of where and what situation that jumper is in ie - when we have a chain of forward handballs driving the ball through the guts, on more than one occasion it has got into the hands of HRS and he's released to a teamate standing flat footed with their back to our goal, or to a player with 4 opponents around him. If there's no obvious give off, then roost the bloody thing 50m and gain the territory. If he can work that part of his game out, then i'd be a lot more bullish

10 MRJ (B-)
Great defensive skills, but i'd really like to see more on the offensive side. I guess it depends on what the coaching staff want from him as well, but withthe number of times he's been dropped, i'm guessing they want a lot more. He's still developing, and had the hammy setback which didn't help, so could still be a real asset.

5 Jack Ross (A+)
Not sure why some here question his skills.
He's a great shot at goal when on the run, not so great from a set shot, a bit like Liam Baker actually. But he's had to deal with being thrown all over the shop, injury and being first cap back to the VFL after a loss. I just want the club to back this kid in, because he dos get his hands dirty and he runs hard.

Summary
A
Jakc Ross
Kaylan Smith
Tylar Young
Seth Campbell
Jacob Bauer
Judson Clark
Sam Banks
Tylar Sonsie
Noah Cumberland
James Trezise
Sampson Ryan
Tom Brown
Josh Gibcus

B and B+
Steely Green
Ben Miller
Biggy
MRJ
Hugo Ralphsmith
Matthew Coulthard
Rhyan Mansell

C
Kaylan Bradke
Thompson Dow

D
Mate Colina
 
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Dont Argue

Tiger Legend
Jun 26, 2018
5,777
12,388
Too much time on my hands today, laying around after minor knee surgery so i thoguht i'd give a little summary on our kids

Looking at the list, there's a lot of new talent that we haven't even unwrapped yet. The side could look vastly different by midway through 2024

If you were to go a "Bulls and Bears" analysis, in my view it would look something like this:

49 Kaylen Smith Bullish (A+)
Looked like a jet in te pre-season before injury struck. Should be pushing for selection given he can get a full pre-season in, along with extra physical maturity. Looks like more than just a half back flanker to me.

48 Steely Green (B)
I hear big wraps on him, but from what i've seen, i'm not super bullish, but may have just watched the wrong games. Fingers crossed.

47 Biggy (B)
Have seen some really good signs in the games i've seen him play, but doesn't seem to have come back with the same form since his injury. There's a few in front of him at this stage

46 Miller (B) Was more bullish last year. He looks okay, but his improvement graph seems to have levelled off a little. That might be in part because of the way we've thrown him around. I'd love to see him improve his core as he seems to get moved too easily. But he has a good leap and is extremely athletic. Could be a very valuable swing man down the track with further development. During the Saints game, i did feel he made a point of trying to not get moved out of marking competitions as he seemed better than i'd seen in the past in that game in particular. More than handy with his tap work in the middle when used there, particularly for a guy that isn't quote 200cm tall.

45 Young (A+)
Considering how little time this guy has been in the game, he is improving literally by the game. I think he will be a lot more than a stopper in the Presti mould inside 12 months. Has good skills and moves real good. Was a bit of an octypus in his early games, which a Richmond player won't get away with, and was gave away a few free kicks accordingly. It's not like he's going to get away with what a Sam De Koning will in a Geelong jumper.

44 Seth Campbell (A++)
Seen bugger all of this kid, but in the little glimpses in the pre season, he reminded me of what i thought when i first saw Liam Baker runngi around in those 8 player per side games a few pre seasons back. Different type of player, but he just looks like he belongs on a footy field. Looks like a natural footballer. Personally, from a small sample i think he will be a gun.

43 Jacon Bauer (A+)
What i like about this kid is that he sees ball and he goes for it. He doesn't die wondering, and usually these types will transition from VFL to AFL much better. There's not much of him, but earlier in the season i was hoping they'd bring him in to play the Josh Caddy role and let him fly at everything. Without a second tall with a developed body, JR is getting mauled. It reminds me of the Geelong game at Sh!tty Litter Stadium in 2017 when Josh Caddy got injured in the opening minutes. Our smalls were out of the game as JR got double teamed at every contest. It looks like the club has a different role for him, but if you played Jack alongside Cumberland and Bauer, i think there'd be a lot more movement in the forward line, and far less intercept marking.

42 Judson Clark (A+)
This kid is a jet. Clean and sublime skills. Needs to become a little more prolific, but that will come with a tank. And we need to play through him more often. He's really good in a contest, and seems to know how to spoil a ball to his own advantage which is great to see from a kid with so little experiece.

41 Sam Banks (A+)
I was a little bit 'meh' when watching him in the VFL, but i'm far more bullish after his one senior appearance, despite some of the poor disposal. The poor disposal was mixed in with other disposals which were great kicks off either foot. They wouldn't be giving him kick out duties in his fiorst game if his skills were garbage. Let's but the poor ones down to first game nerves. He did some great contest work, and i think aquitted himself very well against some big names in a very important and tight game.

40 Tyler Sonsie (A+)
His graph has levelled off alarmingly this year, but you have to bear in mind he lost his pre-season to injury. I'm very bullish for 2024 on this kid. We need him to come through , because we need his skills around the middle given the two GWS boys can spray it around a little.

39 Mate Colina (D)
Only because he needs so much development that it's a shame he's lost a whole year. I did like the fact he attacked marking contests with vigor last year, not so great he held almost none of them, and needs a stack of work on his kicking.

38 Noah Cumberland (A+)
Despite needin ga pre-season with the Richmond Psychologist. Super quick off 10 yars which alllows him to make something out of nothing. His brain is super quick as are his feet, but it seems he's massively concerned with what others are thinking about him, and projects that like the kid in the school yard who tries too hard to be liked, instead of just concentrating on the next passage of play or next contest. He's so easily in our best 22 that it's not funny. In some respects, i think his talent is wasted as purely a mid forward. I think he has the ability to provide drive further afield and then float into the forward line. Massive hopes on this kid.

37 Kaelan Bradke (C)
For a lump of a lad, get's outmarked too easily, but it looks like we have some tools to work with. Needs a bit of development.

36 James Trezise (A+)
I think this kid is going to be another jet we've picked out of nowhere. Apparently there are some knocks on his skills, but that hasn't stood out too much from what i've seen. Has the closing speed to cover half the back line. He's the sort of player you could use as the rear guard when everyone is pressing up, because he's a competative beast and can cover ground so quick. Once Rance went down, i felt we didsn't press up as much to hold the ball forward because we were getting hurt when the opposition got out the back. Guys like this, can allow a press to be more aggressive in my opinion.

32 Sampson Ryan (A+)
Has a way to go, but is developing nicely. For mine, he could be our version of a Tim English, but with better forward craft, and better ruck craft, so all in all, a better version of Tim English. That makes sense too, since Tim English's head looks like it does'nt belong on an AFL footy field. It looks like it belongs in a 1950's kitchen on a 1950's housewife, whereas Sampson Ryans head looks like it belongs in the Primal cartoon series on the lead caveman character.

31 Rhyan Mansell (B+)
Almost an A for bullishness. I wanted him delisted at the end of last year becauswe he seemd to always give away a stupid free kick at the wrong time. That seems to be out of his game, and i'm now loving the way he goes about it. You never die wondering with his effort. Still very young, so if he can keep improving, he could be a real asset.

30 Tom Brown (A+)
Another with a massive pre-season and then a lost year to injury. I can see guys like Brown and Kaylan Smith being a lot more than half back flanks, and moving further up the ground. Very Bullish

28 Josh Gibcus (A+)
Shame he's lost a year but talent is obvious

27 Thompson Dow (C-)
Very bearish withthis kid, partly becaue i doubt we can have anmother mid with average skills givben what we've invested in the two GWS boys, who are great extracors ut a bit shabby with their disposal.

26 Matthew Coullthard (B-)
Hoping i'm wrong, but i don't see as much pace as has been talked about, but i have seen bugger all of this kid, so not really in a position to pass any accurate judgement.

13 Hugo Ralphsmith (B-)
I like Ralphsmith and he he's competative and moves well, but his decision making worries me. Generally speaking i think his skills are good, but he seems to see Richmond jumper and release to Richmond jumber regardless of where and what situation that jumper is in ie - when we have a chain of forward handballs driving the ball through the guts, on more than one occasion it has got into the hands of HRS and he's released to a teamate standing flat footed with their back to our goal, or to a player with 4 opponents around him. If there's no obvious give off, then roost the bloody thing 50m and gain the territory. If he can work that part of his game out, then i'd be a lot more bullish

10 MRJ (B-)
Great defensive skills, but i'd really like to see more on the offensive side. I guess it depends on what the coaching staff want from him as well, but withthe number of times he's been dropped, i'm guessing they want a lot more. He's still developing, and had the hammy setback which didn't help, so could still be a real asset.

5 Jack Ross (A+)
Not sure why some here question his skills.
He's a great shot at goal when on the run, not so great from a set shot, a bit like Liam Baker actually. But he's had to deal with being thrown all over the shop, injury and being first cap back to the VFL after a loss. I just want the club to back this kid in, because he dos get his hands dirty and he runs hard.

Summary
A
Jakc Ross
Kaylan Smith
Tylar Young
Seth Campbell
Jacob Bauer
Judson Clark
Sam Banks
Tylar Sonsie
Noah Cumberland
James Trezise
Sampson Ryan
Tom Brown
Josh Gibcus

B and B+
Steely Green
Ben Miller
Biggy
MRJ
Hugo Ralphsmith
Matthew Coulthard
Rhyan Mansell

C
Kaylan Bradke
Thompson Dow

D
Mate Colina
Too many A+ thrown around.
I’d give you a C+ for that summary.:cool:
 
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Sintiger

Tiger Legend
Aug 11, 2010
18,572
18,569
Camberwell
If all those As are correct we will win the flag in 2025 !!

We had some injury issues with young players this year but also a couple have gone backwards in Sonsie and Cumberland.

Development will be the key because we certainly have some young players with talent
 
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tigerman

It's Tiger Time
Mar 17, 2003
24,346
19,918
Cheers frickenel, good luck with the knee.

If all your A graders turn out to be that, we are looking good.
 
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TigerFurious

Smooth
Dec 17, 2002
3,625
4,864
Two rising star nominations in 4 years, both from last year and neither of them are in the side at the moment. Obviously there are no guarantees but historically, rising star nominations are an excellent leading indicator of a young players future career prospects. Based on that, we have problems, big problems.

P.S. I wouldn’t be including Young (24) or Miller (23) in any assessment of our youth because of their age. They both need to perform now not in two or three years time.
 
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zippadeee

Tiger Legend
Oct 8, 2004
39,639
15,415
Too much time on my hands today, laying around after minor knee surgery so i thoguht i'd give a little summary on our kids

Looking at the list, there's a lot of new talent that we haven't even unwrapped yet. The side could look vastly different by midway through 2024

If you were to go a "Bulls and Bears" analysis, in my view it would look something like this:

49 Kaylen Smith Bullish (A+)
Looked like a jet in te pre-season before injury struck. Should be pushing for selection given he can get a full pre-season in, along with extra physical maturity. Looks like more than just a half back flanker to me.

48 Steely Green (B)
I hear big wraps on him, but from what i've seen, i'm not super bullish, but may have just watched the wrong games. Fingers crossed.

47 Biggy (B)
Have seen some really good signs in the games i've seen him play, but doesn't seem to have come back with the same form since his injury. There's a few in front of him at this stage

46 Miller (B) Was more bullish last year. He looks okay, but his improvement graph seems to have levelled off a little. That might be in part because of the way we've thrown him around. I'd love to see him improve his core as he seems to get moved too easily. But he has a good leap and is extremely athletic. Could be a very valuable swing man down the track with further development. During the Saints game, i did feel he made a point of trying to not get moved out of marking competitions as he seemed better than i'd seen in the past in that game in particular. More than handy with his tap work in the middle when used there, particularly for a guy that isn't quote 200cm tall.

45 Young (A+)
Considering how little time this guy has been in the game, he is improving literally by the game. I think he will be a lot more than a stopper in the Presti mould inside 12 months. Has good skills and moves real good. Was a bit of an octypus in his early games, which a Richmond player won't get away with, and was gave away a few free kicks accordingly. It's not like he's going to get away with what a Sam De Koning will in a Geelong jumper.

44 Seth Campbell (A++)
Seen bugger all of this kid, but in the little glimpses in the pre season, he reminded me of what i thought when i first saw Liam Baker runngi around in those 8 player per side games a few pre seasons back. Different type of player, but he just looks like he belongs on a footy field. Looks like a natural footballer. Personally, from a small sample i think he will be a gun.

43 Jacon Bauer (A+)
What i like about this kid is that he sees ball and he goes for it. He doesn't die wondering, and usually these types will transition from VFL to AFL much better. There's not much of him, but earlier in the season i was hoping they'd bring him in to play the Josh Caddy role and let him fly at everything. Without a second tall with a developed body, JR is getting mauled. It reminds me of the Geelong game at Sh!tty Litter Stadium in 2017 when Josh Caddy got injured in the opening minutes. Our smalls were out of the game as JR got double teamed at every contest. It looks like the club has a different role for him, but if you played Jack alongside Cumberland and Bauer, i think there'd be a lot more movement in the forward line, and far less intercept marking.

42 Judson Clark (A+)
This kid is a jet. Clean and sublime skills. Needs to become a little more prolific, but that will come with a tank. And we need to play through him more often. He's really good in a contest, and seems to know how to spoil a ball to his own advantage which is great to see from a kid with so little experiece.

41 Sam Banks (A+)
I was a little bit 'meh' when watching him in the VFL, but i'm far more bullish after his one senior appearance, despite some of the poor disposal. The poor disposal was mixed in with other disposals which were great kicks off either foot. They wouldn't be giving him kick out duties in his fiorst game if his skills were garbage. Let's but the poor ones down to first game nerves. He did some great contest work, and i think aquitted himself very well against some big names in a very important and tight game.

40 Tyler Sonsie (A+)
His graph has levelled off alarmingly this year, but you have to bear in mind he lost his pre-season to injury. I'm very bullish for 2024 on this kid. We need him to come through , because we need his skills around the middle given the two GWS boys can spray it around a little.

39 Mate Colina (D)
Only because he needs so much development that it's a shame he's lost a whole year. I did like the fact he attacked marking contests with vigor last year, not so great he held almost none of them, and needs a stack of work on his kicking.

38 Noah Cumberland (A+)
Despite needin ga pre-season with the Richmond Psychologist. Super quick off 10 yars which alllows him to make something out of nothing. His brain is super quick as are his feet, but it seems he's massively concerned with what others are thinking about him, and projects that like the kid in the school yard who tries too hard to be liked, instead of just concentrating on the next passage of play or next contest. He's so easily in our best 22 that it's not funny. In some respects, i think his talent is wasted as purely a mid forward. I think he has the ability to provide drive further afield and then float into the forward line. Massive hopes on this kid.

37 Kaelan Bradke (C)
For a lump of a lad, get's outmarked too easily, but it looks like we have some tools to work with. Needs a bit of development.

36 James Trezise (A+)
I think this kid is going to be another jet we've picked out of nowhere. Apparently there are some knocks on his skills, but that hasn't stood out too much from what i've seen. Has the closing speed to cover half the back line. He's the sort of player you could use as the rear guard when everyone is pressing up, because he's a competative beast and can cover ground so quick. Once Rance went down, i felt we didsn't press up as much to hold the ball forward because we were getting hurt when the opposition got out the back. Guys like this, can allow a press to be more aggressive in my opinion.

32 Sampson Ryan (A+)
Has a way to go, but is developing nicely. For mine, he could be our version of a Tim English, but with better forward craft, and better ruck craft, so all in all, a better version of Tim English. That makes sense too, since Tim English's head looks like it does'nt belong on an AFL footy field. It looks like it belongs in a 1950's kitchen on a 1950's housewife, whereas Sampson Ryans head looks like it belongs in the Primal cartoon series on the lead caveman character.

31 Rhyan Mansell (B+)
Almost an A for bullishness. I wanted him delisted at the end of last year becauswe he seemd to always give away a stupid free kick at the wrong time. That seems to be out of his game, and i'm now loving the way he goes about it. You never die wondering with his effort. Still very young, so if he can keep improving, he could be a real asset.

30 Tom Brown (A+)
Another with a massive pre-season and then a lost year to injury. I can see guys like Brown and Kaylan Smith being a lot more than half back flanks, and moving further up the ground. Very Bullish

28 Josh Gibcus (A+)
Shame he's lost a year but talent is obvious

27 Thompson Dow (C-)
Very bearish withthis kid, partly becaue i doubt we can have anmother mid with

Summary
A
Jakc Ross
Kaylan Smith
Tylar Young
Seth Campbell
Jacob Bauer
Judson Clark
Sam Banks
Tylar Sonsie
Noah Cumberland
James Trezise
Sampson Ryan
Tom Brown
Josh Gibcus

B and B+
Steely Green
Ben Miller
Biggy
MRJ
Hugo Ralphsmith
Matthew Coulthard
Rhyan Mansell

C
Kaylan Bradke
Thompson Dow

D
Mate Colina
Seriously the only 1 on that list that could be a A is Gibcus
The rest will struggle to get to B some are already delist quality Ralphsmith Dow Rioli Biggie.
Sony and Brown would be the club biggest head ache at the moment, showing shitt in the 2's and the 5 in 30 is looking more and more a failure, especially with rumours the pick we gave Geelong in 21 the Gazelle Holmes has clubs chasing with offers over 750.
While we wait for Sampson the McBean Post Elton Clone to drive for a mark with 2 hands
 
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Sintiger

Tiger Legend
Aug 11, 2010
18,572
18,569
Camberwell
Seriously the only 1 on that list that could be a A is Gibcus
The rest will struggle to get to B some are already delist quality Ralphsmith Dow Rioli Biggie.
Sony and Brown would be the club biggest head ache at the moment, showing shitt in the 2's and the 5 in 30 is looking more and more a failure, especially with rumours the pick we gave Geelong in 21 the Gazelle Holmes has clubs chasing with offers over 750.
While we wait for Sampson the McBean Post Elton Clone to drive for a mark with 2 hands
Poor post Zips, sorry

The guys you mention weren’t rated highly on the list.

Obviously you aren’t watching the vfl. Brown coming along nicely. Don’t come back with the Holmes stuff please, he is a Geelong player and Brown is a Richmond player. What Holmes does is irrelevant.

Can’t agree on the Ryan summation, best young ruck prospect we have had at the club for a long time. In nappies still in terms of ruckman development.
 
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AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
27,168
15,040
Too much time on my hands today, laying around after minor knee surgery so i thoguht i'd give a little summary on our kids

Looking at the list, there's a lot of new talent that we haven't even unwrapped yet. The side could look vastly different by midway through 2024

If you were to go a "Bulls and Bears" analysis, in my view it would look something like this:

49 Kaylen Smith Bullish (A+)
Looked like a jet in te pre-season before injury struck. Should be pushing for selection given he can get a full pre-season in, along with extra physical maturity. Looks like more than just a half back flanker to me.

48 Steely Green (B)
I hear big wraps on him, but from what i've seen, i'm not super bullish, but may have just watched the wrong games. Fingers crossed.

47 Biggy (B)
Have seen some really good signs in the games i've seen him play, but doesn't seem to have come back with the same form since his injury. There's a few in front of him at this stage

46 Miller (B) Was more bullish last year. He looks okay, but his improvement graph seems to have levelled off a little. That might be in part because of the way we've thrown him around. I'd love to see him improve his core as he seems to get moved too easily. But he has a good leap and is extremely athletic. Could be a very valuable swing man down the track with further development. During the Saints game, i did feel he made a point of trying to not get moved out of marking competitions as he seemed better than i'd seen in the past in that game in particular. More than handy with his tap work in the middle when used there, particularly for a guy that isn't quote 200cm tall.

45 Young (A+)
Considering how little time this guy has been in the game, he is improving literally by the game. I think he will be a lot more than a stopper in the Presti mould inside 12 months. Has good skills and moves real good. Was a bit of an octypus in his early games, which a Richmond player won't get away with, and was gave away a few free kicks accordingly. It's not like he's going to get away with what a Sam De Koning will in a Geelong jumper.

44 Seth Campbell (A++)
Seen bugger all of this kid, but in the little glimpses in the pre season, he reminded me of what i thought when i first saw Liam Baker runngi around in those 8 player per side games a few pre seasons back. Different type of player, but he just looks like he belongs on a footy field. Looks like a natural footballer. Personally, from a small sample i think he will be a gun.

43 Jacon Bauer (A+)
What i like about this kid is that he sees ball and he goes for it. He doesn't die wondering, and usually these types will transition from VFL to AFL much better. There's not much of him, but earlier in the season i was hoping they'd bring him in to play the Josh Caddy role and let him fly at everything. Without a second tall with a developed body, JR is getting mauled. It reminds me of the Geelong game at Sh!tty Litter Stadium in 2017 when Josh Caddy got injured in the opening minutes. Our smalls were out of the game as JR got double teamed at every contest. It looks like the club has a different role for him, but if you played Jack alongside Cumberland and Bauer, i think there'd be a lot more movement in the forward line, and far less intercept marking.

42 Judson Clark (A+)
This kid is a jet. Clean and sublime skills. Needs to become a little more prolific, but that will come with a tank. And we need to play through him more often. He's really good in a contest, and seems to know how to spoil a ball to his own advantage which is great to see from a kid with so little experiece.

41 Sam Banks (A+)
I was a little bit 'meh' when watching him in the VFL, but i'm far more bullish after his one senior appearance, despite some of the poor disposal. The poor disposal was mixed in with other disposals which were great kicks off either foot. They wouldn't be giving him kick out duties in his fiorst game if his skills were garbage. Let's but the poor ones down to first game nerves. He did some great contest work, and i think aquitted himself very well against some big names in a very important and tight game.

40 Tyler Sonsie (A+)
His graph has levelled off alarmingly this year, but you have to bear in mind he lost his pre-season to injury. I'm very bullish for 2024 on this kid. We need him to come through , because we need his skills around the middle given the two GWS boys can spray it around a little.

39 Mate Colina (D)
Only because he needs so much development that it's a shame he's lost a whole year. I did like the fact he attacked marking contests with vigor last year, not so great he held almost none of them, and needs a stack of work on his kicking.

38 Noah Cumberland (A+)
Despite needin ga pre-season with the Richmond Psychologist. Super quick off 10 yars which alllows him to make something out of nothing. His brain is super quick as are his feet, but it seems he's massively concerned with what others are thinking about him, and projects that like the kid in the school yard who tries too hard to be liked, instead of just concentrating on the next passage of play or next contest. He's so easily in our best 22 that it's not funny. In some respects, i think his talent is wasted as purely a mid forward. I think he has the ability to provide drive further afield and then float into the forward line. Massive hopes on this kid.

37 Kaelan Bradke (C)
For a lump of a lad, get's outmarked too easily, but it looks like we have some tools to work with. Needs a bit of development.

36 James Trezise (A+)
I think this kid is going to be another jet we've picked out of nowhere. Apparently there are some knocks on his skills, but that hasn't stood out too much from what i've seen. Has the closing speed to cover half the back line. He's the sort of player you could use as the rear guard when everyone is pressing up, because he's a competative beast and can cover ground so quick. Once Rance went down, i felt we didsn't press up as much to hold the ball forward because we were getting hurt when the opposition got out the back. Guys like this, can allow a press to be more aggressive in my opinion.

32 Sampson Ryan (A+)
Has a way to go, but is developing nicely. For mine, he could be our version of a Tim English, but with better forward craft, and better ruck craft, so all in all, a better version of Tim English. That makes sense too, since Tim English's head looks like it does'nt belong on an AFL footy field. It looks like it belongs in a 1950's kitchen on a 1950's housewife, whereas Sampson Ryans head looks like it belongs in the Primal cartoon series on the lead caveman character.

31 Rhyan Mansell (B+)
Almost an A for bullishness. I wanted him delisted at the end of last year becauswe he seemd to always give away a stupid free kick at the wrong time. That seems to be out of his game, and i'm now loving the way he goes about it. You never die wondering with his effort. Still very young, so if he can keep improving, he could be a real asset.

30 Tom Brown (A+)
Another with a massive pre-season and then a lost year to injury. I can see guys like Brown and Kaylan Smith being a lot more than half back flanks, and moving further up the ground. Very Bullish

28 Josh Gibcus (A+)
Shame he's lost a year but talent is obvious

27 Thompson Dow (C-)
Very bearish withthis kid, partly becaue i doubt we can have anmother mid with average skills givben what we've invested in the two GWS boys, who are great extracors ut a bit shabby with their disposal.

26 Matthew Coullthard (B-)
Hoping i'm wrong, but i don't see as much pace as has been talked about, but i have seen bugger all of this kid, so not really in a position to pass any accurate judgement.

13 Hugo Ralphsmith (B-)
I like Ralphsmith and he he's competative and moves well, but his decision making worries me. Generally speaking i think his skills are good, but he seems to see Richmond jumper and release to Richmond jumber regardless of where and what situation that jumper is in ie - when we have a chain of forward handballs driving the ball through the guts, on more than one occasion it has got into the hands of HRS and he's released to a teamate standing flat footed with their back to our goal, or to a player with 4 opponents around him. If there's no obvious give off, then roost the bloody thing 50m and gain the territory. If he can work that part of his game out, then i'd be a lot more bullish

10 MRJ (B-)
Great defensive skills, but i'd really like to see more on the offensive side. I guess it depends on what the coaching staff want from him as well, but withthe number of times he's been dropped, i'm guessing they want a lot more. He's still developing, and had the hammy setback which didn't help, so could still be a real asset.

5 Jack Ross (A+)
Not sure why some here question his skills.
He's a great shot at goal when on the run, not so great from a set shot, a bit like Liam Baker actually. But he's had to deal with being thrown all over the shop, injury and being first cap back to the VFL after a loss. I just want the club to back this kid in, because he dos get his hands dirty and he runs hard.

Summary
A
Jakc Ross
Kaylan Smith
Tylar Young
Seth Campbell
Jacob Bauer
Judson Clark
Sam Banks
Tylar Sonsie
Noah Cumberland
James Trezise
Sampson Ryan
Tom Brown
Josh Gibcus

B and B+
Steely Green
Ben Miller
Biggy
MRJ
Hugo Ralphsmith
Matthew Coulthard
Rhyan Mansell

C
Kaylan Bradke
Thompson Dow

D
Mate Colina
Darksider
 

frickenel

Tiger Champion
Jul 30, 2003
2,637
1,895
Hidden Valley
There's been a bit of confusion ove my original post.

The post name "Bull and Bears" refers to how "Bullish or Bearish" i am on the prospects.

Where i've put an "A" next to a name, it's to say i'm very Bullish on the player's prospects, noth that the whole list is going to turn into A Graders.

If i was to rate the youth in THAT light, then it would look something like this.

Kaylan Smith - B grader with the potential to be an A Grader

Steely Green - C - Role player

Biggy - C - Role player hopefully

Miller - B to C Handy Role player, with versatility. Could easily see Miller playing in a future premiership side, partly because of his versatility, but i'd like his improvement trajectory to continue a little more upish than it has in he last 6 months.

Tylar Young - At this stage a B to C grader. Showing he can stop an opponent, but that rating could improve with more attacking flair in his game, and i do believe he has the tools to develop that side of his game.

44 Seth Campbell - At this stage a B grader, but i could see this guy geing a genuine A Grader

43 - Jacob Bauer - B grader and a very handy swing man

42 - Judson Clark B - Potentially a real weapon, but not sure he will ever be prolific enough to be an A grader, but he has the smarts to push towards that level. I know under Hardwick there were restrictions as to what areas of the ground he was allowed to run into. Whether that is still the case, and whether that has an effect on how much ball he wins i don't know.

41 - Sam Banks B - A good level B grader that could peak for a season or two into the elite catagory, but a prediction would be B

40 - Tyler Sonsie - A to B I was more Bullish on him after last years finals series, but has struggled since to impact. Interested to see him after a good pre season. Has the tools to be an A

38 - Noah Cumberland. Definitely has the tools to be an A grader if he can get his head right

37 - Bradke C - Maybe play a role until we recruit / develop a forward that can be A grade. He's agile, i just don't like how easily a guy his size can get moved from under the ball.

36 - Tresize I could see this guy being an A grader in a number of positions on the ground.

32 - Sampson Ryan It will take time, but has the potential to be an A grade ruckman. Already his tap work is really good, even before his body has developed, and he can his the scoreboard.

31 - Mansell C grade, but a useful role player

30 - Tom Brown a B grader who could make it to A grade, just havent seen enough of him, but i'm very bullish about his prospects

28 - Gibcus Definitely A grade potential as a backman. It depends where we use him in the long run.

27 - Dow Don't think he will be on the list long term.

13 Hugo Ralph Smith - Maybe a handy B to C grader if he can think about his ball use a little more.

10 MRJ B to C grader as a small forward unless he can develop the offensive side of his game more.

5 Jakc Ross A comfortble B grader. I think he can be a really good mid fielder, but pushing into the top 15% or whatever it is to be an A grader isn't easy as there as quite a lot of very good mids in the competition.

That would give us 4 A graders from this crop which wouldnt be a bad result considering where our draft picks have been
A Graders
S. Ryan
J Gibcus
N Cumberland
J Tresize

B Graders
T. Brown
K. Smith
S. Campbell
J. Bauer
J.Clark
S.Banks
T.Sonsie
T. Young
J.Ross


C Graders
R.Mansell
S.Green
Biggy
MRJ
H.Ralphsmith
K.Bradke
B.Miller

I hope that makes more sense!
 

tigerlove

Tiger Legend
Aug 9, 2014
16,735
7,155
W
Too much time on my hands today, laying around after minor knee surgery so i thoguht i'd give a little summary on our kids

Looking at the list, there's a lot of new talent that we haven't even unwrapped yet. The side could look vastly different by midway through 2024

If you were to go a "Bulls and Bears" analysis, in my view it would look something like this:

49 Kaylen Smith Bullish (A+)
Looked like a jet in te pre-season before injury struck. Should be pushing for selection given he can get a full pre-season in, along with extra physical maturity. Looks like more than just a half back flanker to me.

48 Steely Green (B)
I hear big wraps on him, but from what i've seen, i'm not super bullish, but may have just watched the wrong games. Fingers crossed.

47 Biggy (B)
Have seen some really good signs in the games i've seen him play, but doesn't seem to have come back with the same form since his injury. There's a few in front of him at this stage

46 Miller (B) Was more bullish last year. He looks okay, but his improvement graph seems to have levelled off a little. That might be in part because of the way we've thrown him around. I'd love to see him improve his core as he seems to get moved too easily. But he has a good leap and is extremely athletic. Could be a very valuable swing man down the track with further development. During the Saints game, i did feel he made a point of trying to not get moved out of marking competitions as he seemed better than i'd seen in the past in that game in particular. More than handy with his tap work in the middle when used there, particularly for a guy that isn't quote 200cm tall.

45 Young (A+)
Considering how little time this guy has been in the game, he is improving literally by the game. I think he will be a lot more than a stopper in the Presti mould inside 12 months. Has good skills and moves real good. Was a bit of an octypus in his early games, which a Richmond player won't get away with, and was gave away a few free kicks accordingly. It's not like he's going to get away with what a Sam De Koning will in a Geelong jumper.

44 Seth Campbell (A++)
Seen bugger all of this kid, but in the little glimpses in the pre season, he reminded me of what i thought when i first saw Liam Baker runngi around in those 8 player per side games a few pre seasons back. Different type of player, but he just looks like he belongs on a footy field. Looks like a natural footballer. Personally, from a small sample i think he will be a gun.

43 Jacon Bauer (A+)
What i like about this kid is that he sees ball and he goes for it. He doesn't die wondering, and usually these types will transition from VFL to AFL much better. There's not much of him, but earlier in the season i was hoping they'd bring him in to play the Josh Caddy role and let him fly at everything. Without a second tall with a developed body, JR is getting mauled. It reminds me of the Geelong game at Sh!tty Litter Stadium in 2017 when Josh Caddy got injured in the opening minutes. Our smalls were out of the game as JR got double teamed at every contest. It looks like the club has a different role for him, but if you played Jack alongside Cumberland and Bauer, i think there'd be a lot more movement in the forward line, and far less intercept marking.

42 Judson Clark (A+)
This kid is a jet. Clean and sublime skills. Needs to become a little more prolific, but that will come with a tank. And we need to play through him more often. He's really good in a contest, and seems to know how to spoil a ball to his own advantage which is great to see from a kid with so little experiece.

41 Sam Banks (A+)
I was a little bit 'meh' when watching him in the VFL, but i'm far more bullish after his one senior appearance, despite some of the poor disposal. The poor disposal was mixed in with other disposals which were great kicks off either foot. They wouldn't be giving him kick out duties in his fiorst game if his skills were garbage. Let's but the poor ones down to first game nerves. He did some great contest work, and i think aquitted himself very well against some big names in a very important and tight game.

40 Tyler Sonsie (A+)
His graph has levelled off alarmingly this year, but you have to bear in mind he lost his pre-season to injury. I'm very bullish for 2024 on this kid. We need him to come through , because we need his skills around the middle given the two GWS boys can spray it around a little.

39 Mate Colina (D)
Only because he needs so much development that it's a shame he's lost a whole year. I did like the fact he attacked marking contests with vigor last year, not so great he held almost none of them, and needs a stack of work on his kicking.

38 Noah Cumberland (A+)
Despite needin ga pre-season with the Richmond Psychologist. Super quick off 10 yars which alllows him to make something out of nothing. His brain is super quick as are his feet, but it seems he's massively concerned with what others are thinking about him, and projects that like the kid in the school yard who tries too hard to be liked, instead of just concentrating on the next passage of play or next contest. He's so easily in our best 22 that it's not funny. In some respects, i think his talent is wasted as purely a mid forward. I think he has the ability to provide drive further afield and then float into the forward line. Massive hopes on this kid.

37 Kaelan Bradke (C)
For a lump of a lad, get's outmarked too easily, but it looks like we have some tools to work with. Needs a bit of development.

36 James Trezise (A+)
I think this kid is going to be another jet we've picked out of nowhere. Apparently there are some knocks on his skills, but that hasn't stood out too much from what i've seen. Has the closing speed to cover half the back line. He's the sort of player you could use as the rear guard when everyone is pressing up, because he's a competative beast and can cover ground so quick. Once Rance went down, i felt we didsn't press up as much to hold the ball forward because we were getting hurt when the opposition got out the back. Guys like this, can allow a press to be more aggressive in my opinion.

32 Sampson Ryan (A+)
Has a way to go, but is developing nicely. For mine, he could be our version of a Tim English, but with better forward craft, and better ruck craft, so all in all, a better version of Tim English. That makes sense too, since Tim English's head looks like it does'nt belong on an AFL footy field. It looks like it belongs in a 1950's kitchen on a 1950's housewife, whereas Sampson Ryans head looks like it belongs in the Primal cartoon series on the lead caveman character.

31 Rhyan Mansell (B+)
Almost an A for bullishness. I wanted him delisted at the end of last year becauswe he seemd to always give away a stupid free kick at the wrong time. That seems to be out of his game, and i'm now loving the way he goes about it. You never die wondering with his effort. Still very young, so if he can keep improving, he could be a real asset.

30 Tom Brown (A+)
Another with a massive pre-season and then a lost year to injury. I can see guys like Brown and Kaylan Smith being a lot more than half back flanks, and moving further up the ground. Very Bullish

28 Josh Gibcus (A+)
Shame he's lost a year but talent is obvious

27 Thompson Dow (C-)
Very bearish withthis kid, partly becaue i doubt we can have anmother mid with average skills givben what we've invested in the two GWS boys, who are great extracors ut a bit shabby with their disposal.

26 Matthew Coullthard (B-)
Hoping i'm wrong, but i don't see as much pace as has been talked about, but i have seen bugger all of this kid, so not really in a position to pass any accurate judgement.

13 Hugo Ralphsmith (B-)
I like Ralphsmith and he he's competative and moves well, but his decision making worries me. Generally speaking i think his skills are good, but he seems to see Richmond jumper and release to Richmond jumber regardless of where and what situation that jumper is in ie - when we have a chain of forward handballs driving the ball through the guts, on more than one occasion it has got into the hands of HRS and he's released to a teamate standing flat footed with their back to our goal, or to a player with 4 opponents around him. If there's no obvious give off, then roost the bloody thing 50m and gain the territory. If he can work that part of his game out, then i'd be a lot more bullish

10 MRJ (B-)
Great defensive skills, but i'd really like to see more on the offensive side. I guess it depends on what the coaching staff want from him as well, but withthe number of times he's been dropped, i'm guessing they want a lot more. He's still developing, and had the hammy setback which didn't help, so could still be a real asset.

5 Jack Ross (A+)
Not sure why some here question his skills.
He's a great shot at goal when on the run, not so great from a set shot, a bit like Liam Baker actually. But he's had to deal with being thrown all over the shop, injury and being first cap back to the VFL after a loss. I just want the club to back this kid in, because he dos get his hands dirty and he runs hard.

Summary
A
Jakc Ross
Kaylan Smith
Tylar Young
Seth Campbell
Jacob Bauer
Judson Clark
Sam Banks
Tylar Sonsie
Noah Cumberland
James Trezise
Sampson Ryan
Tom Brown
Josh Gibcus

B and B+
Steely Green
Ben Miller
Biggy
MRJ
Hugo Ralphsmith
Matthew Coulthard
Rhyan Mansell

C
Kaylan Bradke
Thompson Dow

D
Mate Colina
Well thought out post. Wish you were my teacher at school.
 

tigerlove

Tiger Legend
Aug 9, 2014
16,735
7,155
Ah if I was your teacher at school there'd have been too much kick to kick and not enough study.

You might have come out as dumb as a post, but hey you would have had a great kick either foot!!
Perfect I might have passed high school.
 

frickenel

Tiger Champion
Jul 30, 2003
2,637
1,895
Hidden Valley
Perfect I might have passed high school.
Ha you're obviously not much of a wrap for your high school. In the later part of my schooling i was actually teaching kids how to kick a footy, but that wasn't in Oz. They seemed more interested in showin me how to throw it.