Delusional clubs paying a high price for quick fixes | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
  • IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.

Delusional clubs paying a high price for quick fixes

RFC not KFC

Tiger Superstar
May 2, 2003
1,489
0
And he's spot on......

Article by Jake Niall from today's AGE.

Delusional clubs paying a high price for quick fixes

July 24 2003


Richmond and Carlton supporters might be asking how their clubs, third and sixth respectively in 2001, have been so abysmal since. Their crashes have been neither accidental nor the fault of third parties.

The simple explanation is list mismanagement. The Blues and Tigers have been the victim of delusional assessments of their own playing lists and, in the case of Carlton, the draft penalties will merely prolong the nuclear winter.

Cameron Schwab, now Fremantle's chief executive, several years ago identified that clubs should regard themselves as in one of two definitive states - contending for a premiership or building a team that would eventually be capable of winning one.

Trouble arose, according to the Schwab thesis, when clubs became confused about their intentions or kidded themselves.

It's clear that, in the present socialised system, one of the most dangerous scenarios is for a club to kid itself that it can win a premiership when it clearly cannot. This is precisely what Carlton, with more veterans than the Chinese Politburo, did at the end of 2001 and possibly even in 1999.


Richmond, meanwhile, has acknowledged its misjudgement that it was close to a flag at the end of 2001, when Paul Hudson and Adam Houlihan were recruited and a first-round draft pick sacrificed for the admittedly capable Greg Stafford.

Both clubs chose to "top up" after 2001 and thus missed out on valuable choices in what was easily the strongest draft pool of the past five years. The Blues traded for Corey McKernan, pictured, and Justin Murphy, neither of whom will be around when the Blues are contending again, and consequently did not have a pick until No. 39 (Justin Davies). Jarrad Waite, one of the few present Blues to glow in the present dark age, was taken as a father-son pick that year.

For Carlton, the problem was that the club was addicted to its 1980s methods: buy players, pay top dollar - inside or outside the cap - and never let a decent player leave, Aaron Hamill excepted. Missing the finals was not tolerated, even if it was necessary. The result was the worst list in the competition and the second-highest payroll in 2002. The Blues did not have a succession plan.

Richmond's pathology, as identified by Greg Miller - who often sounds like a management consultant brought in to fix a broken company - is that its decision-makers seldom had the courage to make tough, long-term calls.

The best decision the Tigers have made in the past seven or eight years was to throw away the expendable Chris Bond, improve their draft position and gain Brad Ottens in late 1997.

They almost pulled off a similar coup in 1999, trading up from pick seven to pick three while sacrificing journeyman Steve McKee to Collingwood, but botched the upgraded pick, selecting Aaron Fiora ahead of Matthew Pavlich.

Richmond can usually find a reason to avoid tough calls. Often it's because no one, from president to doorman, feels safe in his position; history tells them that, at Tigerland, a couple of bad seasons means another summer of the long knives.

Few Richmond boards have had the courage to stand firm and educate the supporters, rather than giving in to the bloodlust of the mob. So, the cycle continues. The Tigers miss the eight, feel they have to make it next year and take short cuts that condemn them to mediocrity in the future.

Like Ian Collins, Miller and Richmond president Clinton Casey appear to have identified the disease and are preaching patience. Miller has devised a treatment that involves an aggressive stance on the list and a tighter player payments regime. Now is not the time to be uncontracted at Punt Road.

Carlton's reconstruction will be the greater challenge because it has fewer present players who can be a part of a premiership than Richmond. Carlton's only advantage is that its situation is so dire, supporter expectations are necessarily lower.

Richmond supporters have already endured a nuclear winter; it began in 1983 and, after peeking from the bunker in 1995 and 2001, they are still mired in radioactive times.


This story was found at: http://realfooty.theage.com.au/articles/2003/07/23/1058853136540.html
 

Koalalill

Just looking for someone else to curse!
Dec 17, 2002
1,118
0
RFC not KFC said:
And he's spot on......

Article by Jake Niall from today's AGE.

Richmond's pathology, as identified by Greg Miller - who often sounds like a management consultant brought in to fix a broken company - is that its decision-makers seldom had the courage to make tough, long-term calls.

The best decision the Tigers have made in the past seven or eight years was to throw away the expendable Chris Bond, improve their draft position and gain Brad Ottens in late 1997.

They almost pulled off a similar coup in 1999, trading up from pick seven to pick three while sacrificing journeyman Steve McKee to Collingwood, but botched the upgraded pick, selecting Aaron Fiora ahead of Matthew Pavlich.

Richmond can usually find a reason to avoid tough calls. Often it's because no one, from president to doorman, feels safe in his position; history tells them that, at Tigerland, a couple of bad seasons means another summer of the long knives.

Few Richmond boards have had the courage to stand firm and educate the supporters, rather than giving in to the bloodlust of the mob. So, the cycle continues. The Tigers miss the eight, feel they have to make it next year and take short cuts that condemn them to mediocrity in the future.

This story was found at: http://realfooty.theage.com.au/articles/2003/07/23/1058853136540.html

I think the above few paragraphs sum it up in a nutshell really.

Short-term fixes rather than long term strategies... hmmm sounds like what I and a few others have being saying for some weeks now
 

UntamedTiger

Tiger Rookie
Jun 8, 2003
496
4
Agree wholeheartedly KL. But someone is/was responsible and must be held accountable for their short sightedness.
 

MC24

Tiger Superstar
Jan 14, 2003
1,147
0
Koalalill said:
I think the above few paragraphs sum it up in a nutshell really.

... hmmm sounds like what I and a few others have being saying for some weeks now

I take your point KL.

Maybe the rain has cleared the air of late. ;)
 

MC24

Tiger Superstar
Jan 14, 2003
1,147
0
UntamedTiger said:
Agree wholeheartedly KL. But someone is/was responsible and must be held accountable for their short sightedness.

And what does that achieve UntamedTiger? More of what we have been getting, that's what.

Why do they keep making short-sighted decisions, because they feel they have to.

If the current administration hasn't got the guts to do the right thing, then they don't deserve to be there, imo.

Get someone who has a clear plan direction and will stick to it, come hell or high water.

If the Club feels Danny is the man for the job, then they need to stick with him. If that means a downturn in memberships, so be it.

If you believe in what you are doing, you will always overcome the tough times.
 

MC24

Tiger Superstar
Jan 14, 2003
1,147
0
Captain Blood said:
Exactly. Frawleys only been given 4 years to try and get some improvement in the team both on the field and list depth. Supporters are so impatient expecting to see any positives after only 4 years. They should be happy to pay their money and watch the team sink to new lows.

Understand your frustration Captain Blood, but surely the Club should be in a better position to assess things.

If they decide to stick with Danny for next season, then it's deliver or step aside from hereon in.

I don't want to see them making a decision that's been 'forced' upon them.

Dear Richmond Footy Club,

Have the guts to stand your ground and do the right thing.

Lots of love,
MC24
 
P

PuntRoadRoar

Guest
Captain Blood said:
Koalalill said:
Short-term fixes rather than long term strategies... hmmm sounds like what I and a few others have being saying for some weeks now

Exactly. Frawleys only been given 4 years to try and get some improvement in the team both on the field and list depth. Supporters are so impatient expecting to see any positives after only 4 years. They should be happy to pay their money and watch the team sink to new lows.

captain blood thats a classic line

i been paying the club good money and they havent let me down at all

roll on the new lows ...............

frawley has had 4 years now and YES i do expect to see some improvement in that time, as it is we are the laughing stock more now than what we were 4 years ago.
 

Harry

Tiger Legend
Mar 2, 2003
24,588
12,184
C'mon fellas - frawely has only been here 4 years and yes he's recruited for the short term, and yes he's implemented no effective game plan, and yes he's developed a shocking list, and yes he's taken us backwards in that time. But the guy deserves a second chance surely. Now that the white knight Miller is on board Frawely will all of a sudden gain the knowledge of how to be a successful coach.
 
P

PuntRoadRoar

Guest
yeah true harry,

but maybe somebody needs to explain to our great dud coach that its all about winning a premiership not winning a potential wooden spoon......
 

MC24

Tiger Superstar
Jan 14, 2003
1,147
0
Harry said:
Now that the white knight Miller is on board Frawely will all of a sudden gain the knowledge of how to be a successful coach.

Now you're onto something Harry.

Maybe now with the 'right' support and the 'right' way to go about it, we can see some different results from hereon in.

If I were honest with you Harry, I would say I agree with most of what you say. But the thing is that this has to stop somewhere, because it gets us exactly where we have been - NOWHERE.

I ask you, Harry, after seeing what happened yesterday, who in their right mind would come and Coach Richmond?

I saw Terry Wallace on White Line Fever after the 'leaked' memo had been read out.

I don't know that he would want to put himself in such a volatile environment. And who would?

Who needs that? And you will probably say, well if the Coach knew what he was doing he wouldn't get put under such pressure.

The truth is that we could find reason to criticise anyone and anything if things aren't going the way we want them to go.

As supporters, we need to put our own selfish needs aside, just for once. I want us to be successful just as much as anybody else, but I know we never will be until we have some faith in people to do their job.

The results they achieve will ultimately determine their fate.
 

kb7882

Tiger Champion
Jul 10, 2003
3,662
0
Lilydale
I think we need to have some faith in Miller here. As an administrator, he hasn't had much opportunity to stamp his expertise on the club yet. That will happen post-season - with or without Spudley. IMO we need to trust in Miller's experience - that's what he's there for.
 

MC24

Tiger Superstar
Jan 14, 2003
1,147
0
Thank you for your positive thoughts hartbalme. ;)

I feel like I've been put through the wringer today. :'(

My own fault, I know. :p
 

Koalalill

Just looking for someone else to curse!
Dec 17, 2002
1,118
0
Captain Blood said:
Exactly. Frawleys only been given 4 years to try and get some improvement in the team both on the field and list depth. Supporters are so impatient expecting to see any positives after only 4 years. They should be happy to pay their money and watch the team sink to new lows.

What I am saying (and what I have been saying) is that our knee jerk reaction of sacking coaches has not solved any of the problems of the last 20 years. All it appears to have done is term the attention away from the problems that continue to be there. It seems to me that a different approach is needed simply because what we have done in the past hasn't worked.

To say there have been no positves in 4 years - well I find that staggering. No positives at all ???

Cogs, Rodan, Newman, Zantuck - there not positives?

Andy Kellaway, Chaffey - their continued improvement - there not positives?

Getting rid of Daffy and getting Stafford - that wasn't a positive?
 

JohnF

LMFAOOO
Mar 29, 2003
1,039
0
Many people here have been saying that sacking coaches has got us nowhere in the last 20 years. But i don't think that's quite true. Sacking coaches and getting *smile* coaches to replace the ones we sack has got us nowhere in the last 20 years.
 

UntamedTiger

Tiger Rookie
Jun 8, 2003
496
4
KL, I agree with the +ves, how about these -ves.

The failures and/or extremely slow development of the likes of Fiora, Pettifer, Hilton, Biddiscome, King, Houlihan, Hall, Vardy(he was good early in the year), I could probably rattle off a few more if I tried.

I understand that recruiting is a bit of science and luck, however the RFC over the years, have generally botched it. If GM will overview the recruitment, why do we need and why pay someone in the "recruitment" role? Waste of money I think?

What should concern us supporter and the club, is the gradual disintegration of the players on field confidence and style of play. This year is a classic example. The wins we have had this season, other than the Bombers, have been ugly wins.

However, there were signs that we were trying to play "smart" football:

- Used Richo leads as decoy and licked to others in better more direct shots at goal.
- Had Richo and others, playing a more team oriented way, handballing to players running past.
- Movement of ball, was not always, but more often directed through the middle of the ground.
- Negative football, but attack on rebound - generally looked good, but skill let us down

Now, the smart football we have recently displayed:
- We bomb it long to Rich regardless of other options
- Richo and others now turn their back on play and line up regardless.
- If the MCG or Telstra were any wider, they would still hug the boundary line
- Now completely negative, minimise damage (except for the lions game, where we played the best
attacking football in the 1st qtr since 2001, a few mistakes let them in and then back into our shells)

I and most on this forum, are not alluding that the coach alone is at fault, but that the group responsible for the game plan and recruitment, and he as coach who authorises/implements these things, must at some point be held resposible. I am sure Greg Miller will make a positive impact, but surely you do not expect to hold the coaches hand and tell them what to do?

I do not know and do not profess to know the cure to the RFC ills - on field, but surely you are as concerned, that another year like this, will impact the club financially. And the mocking from other supporters, well, after 20 years of failure, it is starting to grate on some of us.
 

MC24

Tiger Superstar
Jan 14, 2003
1,147
0
JohnF said:
Many people here have been saying that sacking coaches has got us nowhere in the last 20 years. But i don't think that's quite true. Sacking coaches and getting sh!t coaches to replace the ones we sack has got us nowhere in the last 20 years.

That may be so John. But why did we get those coaches?

Because previous administrations generally made decisions under pressure, for all the wrong reasons, or just made bad decisions.

Can't we learn from previous mistakes?
 

Harry

Tiger Legend
Mar 2, 2003
24,588
12,184
MC - I agree with your position on stability, support and faith, these are important ingredients. But when a club loses 9 in a row one season and then loses 8 (and potentially 13 if we lose tomorrow) the next season then these are the only facts that need to be looked at. If this scenario was to happen at any other club the coach would definately go.

These are the facts and nothing can change them. The past is irrelevant. Regardless of whether we've had 20 coaches in the past 20 years is irrelevant. the facts are the coach cannot do anything to stop these run of losses - and we've played crap teams on the way.

The ONLY thing that needs to be assessed is - Is Frawely up to it. 9 losses in a row and then 13 (my bet is on this) would suggest he is definately not up to it.

You can have your stability and all that but that is a by-product of success, not the other way around IMO.

Frawley has made a mess of the RFC, supporters will not sign up and he will bury us further.

It amazes me that people still think we should support him. Not everyone can coach - simple as that.
 

Dean3

Older than I've ever been
Dec 17, 2002
2,954
0
Melbourne
Harry, we can all talk bout it till we're all yellow and black in the face, but it basically boils down to a point of view, doesn't it? I think a reasonable argument can be mounted for either case - getting rid of Frawley AND keeping him.
Let's not forget that it was Danny Frawley that coached us (with a team that did not include Coughlan & Johnson) to a preliminary final in just his second year as a senior AFL coach. To say that he managed that without any game plan, or that it was just a fluke or some other rubbish is just as ridiculous as saying that this year and last year have been triffic.
It has been well recorded that the CLUB (I'm using that word advisedly, as it is harsh to blame the senior coach entirely) misjudged the talent on the list after that year, and misjudged the talent in the draft as well.
The question is: does Danny deserve to hang because of that collective decision at the end of 2001? Some say yes, chop him, others say, well, he's got another year to run, let's do what we should have done back then, clear out the list and see how he goes. I think there are a number of positives in keeping Danny on, not the least of which is that the pool of available coaches will be much bigger at the end of 2004 than it is now. We also get the benefit of appearing to back the coach, stick together and tough out a difficult situation, instead of living up to our well-earned reputation of taking out our anger and frustration on the coach.
If you've ever been part of a footy club, either as a player or official, then you will know what a bit of support and confidence can do for a player, and indeed a coach. It can work wonders. It may do that for Danny, it may not, but I think he's worth persevering with. That's what you get with a first time coach — it's a risk, but you never know what might happen if you back them and support them when they're down. And he is definitely down, no doubt about that. He would be in a living hell at the moment, doubting himself, his game plan (yes, he does have one or two) and many of his players.
He would have contemplated resigning, may still do it if he thinks he's got nothing left to offer. Personally I hope he toughs it out.
 

Harry

Tiger Legend
Mar 2, 2003
24,588
12,184
Dean - I agree that it comes down to point of view - that is the essence of debating - personal opinions. However three comments come to mind when reading your post.

1 - You say that by keeping Frawely this will give the football public the impression that we stick by our coaches and that the pool of coaches will be greater at the end of 2004. Now my question is - Do we stick with a coach because we believe he has the talent and expertise to make us a successful team or do we simply stick with the current coach to merely make an impression on the football public? IMO the only reason a club should stick by a coach is that they are confident in his abilities. If the RFC are backing him merely to create an impression then they are doing the wrong thing and sacrificing any progress.

2. You say that a bit of support for Danny may do wonders. I ask you - Has Danny had no support in his time at the tigers? I would have thought he has had ample of support, yet he cannot do anything to get us out of these horrible losing streaks.

3. You say that Danny lead us to a prelim final in his second year. Does this excuse him for not being able to perform currently, and not being able to generate some passion and team unity in order to beat dud teams like geelong and carlton? Would a premiership coach be safe if his team encountered such insipid losing streaks and played such poor football to the point where supporters are turned away? I would argue not.