The Premier of Victoria sends his kids to Catholic schools. The Catholic religion basically holds the same views on homosexuality and abortion as Thorburn's church...............
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Essendon = Entitlement
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Recent revelations and trials would suggest the Catholic church doesn't practice what it preaches, at least when it comes to homosexuality
Certain office holders yes. But that is not the church's position on the matter.
But the world is full of hypocrites.
Think that’s a good solution, which accommodates both types of diversity. She sits it out, sticks to her values and loses a match payment. (The untidy part is whether that impacts the team’s chances.)
There’s a great difference between not insulting etc LGBTIQ (unacceptable) and being obliged to promote them thru wearing a jumper. The AFL and AFLW want to attract Muslims (and Christians such as South Sudanese). The balance is tricky, but I think this is right. Surely the supporters of LGBTQ rights are happy with 99% of the league wearing the jumper, and appreciate (kudos to Emma Kearney here) that they are not the only group involved?
No, it's not a good solution. The solution is to not be prejudiced against gays.
So you want her to wear a symbol of something that belies her personal beliefs? Is that not also the very definition of hypocrisy?
Your assumption that she is prejudiced against gays based upon her choosing not to wear a jumper that is meaningless to her choice to participate in sport is offensive. She has acted, in my opinion, in the correct manner.
Some time ago I worked for a large company that left a pride emblem on the desk of all the staff. Staff were encouraged to display it. The emblem stayed on the desk, untouched. Three reasons: It had nothing to do with my employment. I am not gay. It wasn't my choice.
If you meet me in person I will treat you with love, respect, and kindness. I won't wear your symbols. I won't make you wear mine.
So a symbol of support belies her personal beliefs, but she is not prejudiced against gays? How does that work?
“Everyone should just agree with me” is not the solution. Situations are often way more nuanced than they appear. There were hints last time around that this may be less due to the player’s personal beliefs (which I don’t actually know) but that she would offend her community, which of course would distress her. It involves more than her and a jumper. Emma Kearney seemed to appreciate that.
Having a truly diverse, respectful and tolerant society may often require choosing the least worst among imperfect options. We may not agree with someone else’s values, but we need to understand that they may be deeply held and seated in broader community identity. We need to change hearts and minds, not dragoon people into uniforms against their core beliefs.
The problem is her beliefs are hurtful to other human beings, because they devalue their lives.
I'm not gay but I understand being gay makes your life much more difficult, especially for young people. When organisations show support for gay people through these symbols it is their way helping makes those lives a little less difficult.
I personally cannot fathom why any human being would refuse to display a symbol that would make another person feel better about themselves, especially one who has a difficult path in life already.
I think any player who refuses to wear a pride jumper should no longer be part of the club. There's no excuse for it, and using folk tales as a justification is just rubbish.
After reading some of the comments about the Essendon CEO today I feel physically sick and am actively looking to leave Australia. The number of people trying to justify the position that is is ok to ostracise gay people because it is your 'personal belief' is heart breaking.
Imagine how a gay kid feels seeing so many people supporting someone thinking they are 'evil' just because of who they love? Imagine how a gay kid who follows AFLW feels knowing there are players who say I'd rather not play than say you are ok?
It's an absolute disgrace that these sort of views have a level of acceptance in our society. They should be considered on the same level as being a nazi or a racist.
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One should continually question their beliefs, particularly when new evidence presents itself. It's why people aren't burnt at the stake or drowned as witches anymore. It's why honour killings have reduced. The dominance and privelege of men has slowly reduced over time. What was once accepted as the norm is now questioned. It's why abhorrent religous beliefs will (should) eventually be a thing of the past.
A core belief should not be anchored by imaginary beings and tales.
You indicated her personal beliefs do not support the "pride" theme. She obviously couldn't stand the thought of wearing a jumper that supported a marginalised sector of society (ironic really). I assume that means she does not support LGBQI people or their lifestyle. Would love to revisit if she were to have a gay child.
Or am I wrong to assume she is against "gays"?
Problem is Thorburn and others are gaslighting everyone about the issue and why he stepped down.
Yeh, the oposition and hate is generally fuelled by ignorance and fear too. I lived with a couple of gay guys with my wife for a couple of years and it was revealing. They couldn't actively promote their relationship in public (simple thngs like hold hands in supermarket or a cuddle and kiss in the park etc) without attracting looks of disgust from some people. When I first moved in it took a while to get used to men holding hands inside and cuddling on a couch. But it becomes normalised after a while. And my kids adore them. And think nothing of their relationship. They love spending time with them. Often because they show more care and support and interest in what the kids are doing. Its wonderful.
People hiding behind some sort of freedom of belief on this are esentially ignorant. Or willfully bigoted.
Anyway, this is probably for a different thread. (happy to have found a topic we are in vehement agreement over)
I accidentally clicked on page 1 of this thread from 2 years ago. Could easily be from the last couple of days.
Finally, some sense amongst the vitriol.
Freedom of speech and religion is a cornerstone of our democracy. Remove that and are we any better than the dictatorships and oppressive regimes around the world?
For the record I believe women should have the right to seek an abortion and who people choose to love is their business as long as both parties are adults and it’s consensual.
BUT that doesn’t mean I don’t respect others opinions and their right to have and express them. As the banner in cheer squad says: many cultures , many beliefs ONE TIGER ARMY
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