Head knocks

[Tony Braxton-Hicks]

Half of Port's fine comes out of the soft cap, so a small pay cut for Hinkley or for Carr as his assistant (unless he's made head coach there).

 

[Redford]

Interesting. Hopefully they get to a point where they can test who might be susceptible to CTE before they undertake contact sport.

Yes. That and other mitigators like regular testing, helmets that move inside of themselves without interfering with the player's sensory abilities, rule modifications, statutory declarations etc.

 

[DavidSSS]

Interesting. Hopefully they get to a point where they can test who might be susceptible to CTE before they undertake contact sport.

Pity is I reckon we're a long way from that, it would help in all sorts of contexts.

DS

 

[toothless]

Half of Port's fine comes out of the soft cap, so a small pay cut for Hinkley or for Carr as his assistant (unless he's made head coach there).

How much were we fined?

 

[waiting]

How much were we fined?

Same plus the players involved ( Gold Coast 2020 Hub ) ?.

Think personally Port got off lightly and the Doctor involved too.

All good and well Corney to back him ‘as he saved his sons life, came to his house at midnight etc ) but this is Port’s & the Doctor’s second , error of judgement in 12 months.

To the naked eye Alir Alir was knocked out and in la la land. I know the look.

I guess Alir Alir in 20 years time will arm himself with a good lawyer and come after the AFL when he doesn’t remember past memories, what he did the week before or day or able to remember his family.

Penalty was really soft .!

 

[jb03]

I wonder how many ex AFL/VFL players out there are suffering from some form of concussion symptoms in their life post footy?
I love the game but it makes me a bit sick thinking it's participants are basically having their brains scrambled.

Dunno. If you don't want to drown, don't go in the water. If you don't want to suffer physical damage, don't play a contact sport. Can't see why the AFL simply don't have a clause in the standard player contracts that the players acknowledge the risk and that they won't be compensated for future medical issues from playing the game.

 

[toothless]

Penalty was really soft .!

& to consider the afl website headline: "power cops huge fine over concussion protocols error"

 

[waiting]

& to consider the afl website headline: "power cops huge fine over concussion protocols error" :blowing up

Yeah, when the AFL will pay half of it!!

 

[toothless]

delete

 

[mrposhman]

Exactly. As has been explained by endless experts that is why helmets - in their current form - do next to nothing to prevent brain injury.

It's the movement or rattling around of the brain inside the skull from sudden resistance to inertia that causes it.

What's being touted as a mitigation is helmets that have a movable shell inside of themselves to absorb impact. These are being trialled as we speak.

Not technically right. Helmets (both footy ones and cycling etc), absolutely prevent brain injury. Its just we are discussing different brain injuries. Helmets will protect you very well from significant head trauma from an accident (ie. landing on it etc and causing Acquired brain injuries).

What they don't protect against are repeated smaller impacts that accumulate and cause diseases such as CTE.

They are accident prevention rather than concussion prevention. I'm not sure there is anything currently designed that can protect sufficiently against concussions from repetitive smaller actions.

 

[Tony Braxton-Hicks]

Dunno. If you don't want to drown, don't go in the water. If you don't want to suffer physical damage, don't play a contact sport. Can't see why the AFL simply don't have a clause in the standard player contracts that the players acknowledge the risk and that they won't be compensated for future medical issues from playing the game.

And a comp-wide medical insurance fund. Even local amateur comps have medical cover included in your comp fees.

 

[Tigers of Old]

Dunno. If you don't want to drown, don't go in the water. If you don't want to suffer physical damage, don't play a contact sport. Can't see why the AFL simply don't have a clause in the standard player contracts that the players acknowledge the risk and that they won't be compensated for future medical issues from playing the game.

I don't dsagree but as of right now they don't have a clause & the research is only getting more damning. That concerns me.

 

[waiting]

Not technically right. Helmets (both footy ones and cycling etc), absolutely prevent brain injury. Its just we are discussing different brain injuries. Helmets will protect you very well from significant head trauma from an accident (ie. landing on it etc and causing Acquired brain injuries).

What they don't protect against are repeated smaller impacts that accumulate and cause diseases such as CTE.

They are accident prevention rather than concussion prevention. I'm not sure there is anything currently designed that can protect sufficiently against concussions from repetitive smaller actions.

That’s the key sentence there Posh.

“Accident prevention not concussion prevention “

 

[Redford]

Not technically right. Helmets (both footy ones and cycling etc), absolutely prevent brain injury. Its just we are discussing different brain injuries. Helmets will protect you very well from significant head trauma from an accident (ie. landing on it etc and causing Acquired brain injuries).

What they don't protect against are repeated smaller impacts that accumulate and cause diseases such as CTE.

They are accident prevention rather than concussion prevention. I'm not sure there is anything currently designed that can protect sufficiently against concussions from repetitive smaller actions.

Yeah not sure that's technically correct either. Or at least highly debatable i.e. you can develop CTE or other brain issues from one single blow to the head, not just multiple and the NFL has cases of single blows causing CTE/other brain injury whilst players have been wearing helmets, I'm sure. And that's why specialists suggest now, that helmets really, are more of a superficial protector of the skull than a protector of the brain - unless of course the impact of the blow is likely to pierce the skull and the brain underneath it. Then of course, helmets are of use. Maybe that's what you're saying. But that would be unlikely on a football field.

But I take your point where different types of injury are concerned, certainly. CTE has, to date, been thought to be repeat related where that's now under question - and that at least that a single blow to the head may still cause some 'type' of long term issue even when wearing a helmet if the blow is significant enough and/or the recipient physiologically vulnerable enough.

(Full disclosure here. I have a brother with a significant brain injury and subsequent paralysis and other problems.)

 

[tigersnake]

Can't see why the AFL simply don't have a clause in the standard player contracts that the players acknowledge the risk and that they won't be compensated for future medical issues from playing the game.

I can see why. Its legally and ethically problematic.

Young kids sign up at 18 thinking and hoping they'll make it big, spend a few years going hard but never make it, do significant damage, then hit 35 and think WTF was I thinking?

The premise kind-of works for players who make it and make a lot of money, but most don't.

If society standards continue to progress, safety, human rights etc, I think footy will fade away, like bullfighting and smoking in the pub. But progress isn't guaranteed of course. We might be back to full Balmey piledrivers, Leigh Matthews on Stan Magro, durries wherever you like and cockfighting in the local pub in a few years, who knows.

 

[Redford]

Dunno. If you don't want to drown, don't go in the water. If you don't want to suffer physical damage, don't play a contact sport. Can't see why the AFL simply don't have a clause in the standard player contracts that the players acknowledge the risk and that they won't be compensated for future medical issues from playing the game.

Yeah but not being a lawyer, I'd expect under workplace laws and providing as safe a workplace as possible, getting guys to sign declarations like that may be seen as an avoidance of an employer's requirements/duties.

 

[jb03]

I can see why. Its legally and ethically problematic.

Young kids sign up at 18 thinking and hoping they'll make it big, spend a few years going hard but never make it, do significant damage, then hit 35 and think WTF was I thinking?

The premise kind-of works for players who make it and make a lot of money, but most don't.

If society standards continue to progress, safety, human rights etc, I think footy will fade away, like bullfighting and smoking in the pub. But progress isn't guaranteed of course. We might be back to full Balmey piledrivers, Leigh Matthews on Stan Magro, durries wherever you like and cockfighting in the local pub in a few years, who knows.

Later life regrets on youthful behaviour are not the exclusive domain of sporting pursuits.

 

[mrposhman]

Yeah not sure that's technically correct either. Or at least highly debatable i.e. you can develop CTE or other brain issues from one single blow to the head, not just multiple and the NFL has cases of single blows causing CTE/other brain injury whilst players have been wearing helmets, I'm sure. And that's why specialists suggest now, that helmets really, are more of a superficial protector of the skull than a protector of the brain - unless of course the impact of the blow is likely to pierce the skull and the brain underneath it. Then of course, helmets are of use. Maybe that's what you're saying. But that would be unlikely on a football field.

But I take your point where different types of injury are concerned, certainly. CTE has, to date, been thought to be repeat related where that's now under question - and that at least that a single blow to the head may still cause some 'type' of long term issue even when wearing a helmet if the blow is significant enough and/or the recipient physiologically vulnerable enough.

(Full disclosure here. I have a brother with a significant brain injury and subsequent paralysis and other problems.)

You are right, technically any impact on the head can lead to CTE, but helmets as such as accident prevention, ie. they are designed to ensure that an impact to the head isn't fatal and in those respects helmets for bike riders etc are very useful. For accidents that won't be fatal the jury is out especially when it comes to CTE. For example, I'm not sure Caleb Daniels helmet really does much to protect him, as you say incidents where a collision could be fatal are unlikely on a football field.

Most research around helmets that I know of is to take a fatal accident and find a solution to prevent a fatality not prevent all damage to the brain. What we need for footy is something relating to the latter.

(I have a disclosure around this too, my ex-wife had an accident when not wearing a helmet and similar to your brother acquired a significant brain injury and now has permanent disabilitites - The thing around this that shocked me so much, is how far we regress as humans when you have significant damage to the brain, its a very scary scenario that until it happened I had no idea how frequently this sort of thing affected people)

 

[tigersnake]

Later life regrets on youthful behaviour are not the exclusive domain of sporting pursuits.

Of course. But a lot are not on the record and in the public eye.

My first job was as a printer, there are different kinds, screen, letterpress, litho and flexo-gravure. Flexo-gravure is high speed packaging printing, mostly plastic. You flood the image with a liquid ink, which is pigment and volatile solvent, the solvent evaporates instantly, leaving the colour on the material. It was extremely bad for your health, the printers used to get paid 2.5-3 times what normal litho printers like me got paid, and I got good money. We did a tour of a flexo plant when I was in trade school, in Moorabin from memory, I was 16 or 17 yo, all the printers looked like walking corpses. One came up to me and said 'stay out of this caper young fella, the money looks good but its not enough, we're all dead by 55 or 60'.

(They don't do that anymore, the factories have very expensive exctraction systems and printers wear expensive masks, but I still wouldn't do it)

 

[Tigers of Old]

Dunno. If you don't want to drown, don't go in the water. If you don't want to suffer physical damage, don't play a contact sport. Can't see why the AFL simply don't have a clause in the standard player contracts that the players acknowledge the risk and that they won't be compensated for future medical issues from playing the game.

It sounds easy but would a parent sign a waiver in jnr footy knowing their child may suffer from potentially significant brain damage in later life?
The waiver basically admits you've got a reasonable chance of getting CTE from concussion & we won't cover you but here, sign away!
If waivers come in a lot of kids will be playing basketball methinks..