Indigenous History Debate | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Indigenous History Debate

Brodders17

Tiger Legend
Mar 21, 2008
13,625
3,769
The articles provide a decent summary if you read them properly. That’s what they’re for, for people who don’t have time to read the book.

Schools are teaching concepts from a book that is deeply flawed.

dark_emu_in_the_classroom_high_res_x600.jpg


Academics behind Dark Emu debunking say Indigenous history book should be removed from school libraries
how do you know what kind of summary they provide if you havent read the original work?
 

LeeToRainesToRoach

Tiger Legend
Jun 4, 2006
33,188
11,537
Melbourne
how do you know what kind of summary they provide if you havent read the original work?
How do you know mercury is toxic without eating it?

Many people have made the criticisms since 2014 but it seems they are only being taken seriously after the book written by two experts. If said experts were being misquoted or misinterpreted, you'd have heard about it by now. Therefore I trust the summaries, some written after discussion with the experts, to be valid critiques.
 

Brodders17

Tiger Legend
Mar 21, 2008
13,625
3,769
How do you know mercury is toxic without eating it?
I must admit i do generally trust experts in their particular fields, eg the climate scientists who tell us about the effect man is having on climate, or those who tell us it is highly unlikely Covid was released from a lab, or those who tell us the Covid vaccine is generally safe and effective.
the Oz writers are not experts (I assume, their names are not attached to the articles).
 

LeeToRainesToRoach

Tiger Legend
Jun 4, 2006
33,188
11,537
Melbourne
I must admit i do generally trust experts in their particular fields, eg the climate scientists who tell us about the effect man is having on climate, or those who tell us it is highly unlikely Covid was released from a lab, or those who tell us the Covid vaccine is generally safe and effective.
the Oz writers are not experts (I assume, their names are not attached to the articles).
You're getting into Essendon Hirdite territory now.

The journo's don't need to be experts when the experts themselves are saying this.
“It doesn’t need to be in the school curriculum and in fact it shouldn’t be in the school curriculum, because of the errors and the incorrectness of the entire work. It’s not about a different interpretation (of history), it’s about misuse of the archival sources, the actual primary sources. It’s a matter of looking at those sources and using them in the correct manner with integrity and reliability, and that is not what Dark Emu reflects.”
I get that it's hard for Pascoe-pumpers to turn back after his work has been discredited.
 
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DavidSSS

Tiger Legend
Dec 11, 2017
7,020
9,219
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Dark Emu is recommended for use in the school curriculum, along with lots of other material, and that book referred to above is a teaching aid, which, given the authority with which he speaks about it, I assume L2R2R has read cover to cover and used in an educational setting.

Now, I wonder what would happen if we went through all the recommended texts for use in Australian History classes in schools, nothing contentious there? I hope not, there should be lots of contentious material in texts used for teaching history.

DS
 

MD Jazz

Tiger Legend
Feb 3, 2017
8,432
5,822
Pascoe's probably happy with all the publicity, I imagine it will do nothing but help book sales.

There's no doubt history has been taught from very much a white perspective. I learnt Captain Cook discovered Aust and it was full of primitive and violent natives. And it was colonised by convicts who all became good blokes. I never learnt about massacres, about lack of freedoms and rights, or about stolen children. I learnt "abo's" were generally no hopers and drunks and you should avoid them.

That's changing as it should. There should be no fears about telling the true history warts and all. It's the only way to foster progress between indigenous and non-indigenous. My kids learn infinitely more about aboriginal history and culture than I did, and have much more empathy. I doubt we will hear statements like "why don't they just get on with it" for too much longer.

FWIW it seems Pascoe has written a blend of fact and fiction, a story by a storyteller. I haven't read his book but The Age I think was the first to run with the story of the academics querying its veracity. So its not just the right wing press that have published an article presenting the criticism. And I'm not taught how it is used as an academic text in schools.
 

Brodders17

Tiger Legend
Mar 21, 2008
13,625
3,769
You lot are just arguing for argument's sake. Bruce Pascoe's work is discredited.
no, i just realised our argument was circular. you are reading reviews in the Oz about a book and using those reviews as gospel to discredit in its entirety another book.
and im not sure what you are trying to achieve? what is the point you are trying to get across?
 

LeeToRainesToRoach

Tiger Legend
Jun 4, 2006
33,188
11,537
Melbourne
no, i just realised our argument was circular. you are reading reviews in the Oz about a book and using those reviews as gospel to discredit in its entirety another book.
and im not sure what you are trying to achieve? what is the point you are trying to get across?
It's topical and closely related to the subject. Do you think it warrants its own thread?
 

Tony Braxton-Hicks

It's Tiger Time!
Aug 10, 2004
10,854
4,538
The Playboy Mansion
The articles provide a decent summary if you read them properly. That’s what they’re for, for people who don’t have time to read the book.

Schools are teaching concepts from a book that is deeply flawed.

dark_emu_in_the_classroom_high_res_x600.jpg


Academics behind Dark Emu debunking say Indigenous history book should be removed from school libraries
This study guide was published about 2 months ago. Among the classroom activities are some that show Pascoe citing a source to make a point, but then shows where Pascoe omitted parts of that same quotation that directly contradicted his argument.
 
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AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
24,649
10,756
Get your Dark Emu beer. Endorsed by Bruce Pascoe himself. Take a slab back to the mission today!

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Difficult not to be very cynical indeed.


Indigenous people making money out of entrepreneurship? Yes, it's terrible. Only white people should be allowed to do that. Oh but he's indigenous and indigenous people have a drinking problem? So do white people, but fine to keep making alcohol to serve to them.

He also has a company that grows and sells native Australian food plants. Scandalous!

Racists say indigenous people should be more like white people, but when they succeed it's a major problem for whites.
 

Legends of 2017

Finally!!!!!!!!!!!
Mar 24, 2005
5,056
2,538
Melbourne

“Dark Emu author Bruce Pascoe is under fire from members of Indigenous community for collaborating on a new boutique beer that uses a Dreamtime story on the side of the can.”

“In a Facebook comment on the Bega District News story about the beer's release, Yuin community leader Warren Ngarrae Foster remarked: 'The book's one thing but naming GROG after one of our SACRED STORIES IN THE NIGHT SKY just goes to show [he's] in it for the money.
'SHAME ON YOU Bruce WTF.'”
 
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Mr Brightside

Tiger Legend
Jul 1, 2005
23,027
7,969
Wang
Absolutely hate talking race, religion etc, I always just judge on the human the person is , good an bad in everything I believe.

Anyway without starting a new thread , had the thought the other day when lots of Italian heritage friends , were celebrating the soccer win , now I’m glad to be wrong however I don’t think I ever remember seeing a English heritage person ( self included) celebrating a “ pommie” win . It appears most immigrants will have there “ family home” country as there second team in world sports , yet most with English bloodlines love to hate the Poms when it comes to sport . Just a funny anomaly I think that’s out there
 

tigertim

something funny is written here
Mar 6, 2004
26,082
5,839
Absolutely hate talking race, religion etc, I always just judge on the human the person is , good an bad in everything I believe.

Anyway without starting a new thread , had the thought the other day when lots of Italian heritage friends , were celebrating the soccer win , now I’m glad to be wrong however I don’t think I ever remember seeing a English heritage person ( self included) celebrating a “ pommie” win . It appears most immigrants will have there “ family home” country as there second team in world sports , yet most with English bloodlines love to hate the Poms when it comes to sport . Just a funny anomaly I think that’s out there
Yeah, my lineage is Irish/Swedish and I couldn’t give a rats arse about Ireland or Sweden.
 

Mr Brightside

Tiger Legend
Jul 1, 2005
23,027
7,969
Wang
Yeah, my lineage is Irish/Swedish and I couldn’t give a rats arse about Ireland or Sweden.
yep I’ve got German heritage too , however I just simply look at it that I’m Australian.

Should say absolutely nothing wrong with pride in your heritage
 
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