Indigenous History Debate | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Indigenous History Debate

antman

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
20,976
6,530
Publish the whole thing and not just the headline so people can read it.

WA only formed a government in 1890 and its population was under 50K. Truly the "wild west".

Here's the full Royal Commission, knock yourself out.


50k people and a government is still not "beyond the frontier". Slavery still existed, and the government knew about it. Keep on denying history if it makes you feel better though.
 

LeeToRainesToRoach

Tiger Legend
Jun 4, 2006
29,401
7,316
Melbourne
Here's the full Royal Commission, knock yourself out.


50k people and a government is still not "beyond the frontier". Slavery still existed, and the government knew about it. Keep on denying history if it makes you feel better though.
And the British government knew about the unethical killing of Aborigines in 1837. Doing something about it when the problem is remote is another thing.



Coolgardie during the late 19th century gold rush. Other parts weren't so civilised.
 
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DavidSSS

Tiger Champion
Dec 11, 2017
4,182
4,729
Melbourne
I don’t feel any shame or guilt if talking about the holocaust - not a shred - but when talking about the plight of the indigenous Australians it’s always there. And this underpinning of shame and guilt goes through the roof if the topic comes up with an inquisitive visitor from abroad who's seen docos or read stuff on the net so I guess there must be some sense of national shame in me at play. Maybe it depends on how you're wired.

It certainly is more difficult when talking to someone from abroad, but I would still talk about responsibility and trying to act with indigenous people to further their efforts towards a more equal society.

DS
 

antman

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
20,976
6,530
Any evidence produced will be excused as above. I mean, I could give more evidence about blackbirding in Queensland well after they had their own parliament and legal systems but I'm sure they would still find reasons to excuse these examples of slavery, or claim that it wasn't real slavery, or that because chattel slavery didn't exist in law then the fact that it existed in practice didn't matter.

Easy to see people's true colours on issues like this.
 
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LeeToRainesToRoach

Tiger Legend
Jun 4, 2006
29,401
7,316
Melbourne
Easy to see people's true colours on issues like this.
Yeah nah. I look on the Stack thread today and some people are so goddamn desperate to see injustice that they convince themselves it's happening. That's half the problem with you lot; you've been conditioned to think the worst of this country and by extension, half the people in it.
 
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antman

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
20,976
6,530
Yeah nah. I look on the Stack thread today and some people are so goddamn desperate to see injustice that they convince themselves it's happening. That's half the problem with you lot; you've been conditioned to think the worst of this country and by extension, half the people in it.

I haven't, there's more good about Australia than bad but let's be clear eyed about the past, the present and where we are going.

Truth is more important than patriotism.
 

Djevv

Tiger Champion
Feb 11, 2005
3,022
180
NT
www.youtube.com
There was a Royal Commission in WA in 1906 - the Roth RC, which confirmed officially that the practices of slavery existed and had been tolerated for decades by the WA authorities.



To state it all happened "beyond the frontier" and no-one knew about is abject denialism.

Doesn’t this make the point that these practices were not condoned by the authorities - hence the Royal Commission?

As for indentured labor/servitude it was common in British Empire from the time of abolition onwards. Many races were involved including Irish. As a mate of mine says, who has impeccable English working class credentials: nothing the English did in the colonies was not also done first to their own people!

Yeah so it was ugly. Life was tough 100+ years ago. No welfare, hard manual labour, high infant mortality, safety practices unheard of but if you had no gainful employment you died of starvation.

Denialism of what precisely? I just don’t swallow everything I read in the mainstream media.
 
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Giardiasis

Tiger Legend
Apr 20, 2009
6,294
665
Brisbane
Yes, it's about reconciliation - recognising the truth of the past and working together to create a better future. It's not about "guilt".
It goes further than that, it is about reparations. White guilt is pushed to justify modern Australian's paying for it, regardless that they had nothing to do with it. I think reparations make perfect sense, but only when a direct property right violation can be demonstrated. Given how long ago these crimes occurred that is basically impossible, so the white guilt angle is pushed (which is racial discrimination IMO) to justify theft to pass onto Indigenous Australians (which itself is impossible to define).
 
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tigerdell

Hope springs infernal
Mar 29, 2014
1,639
962
Doesn’t this make the point that these practices were not condoned by the authorities - hence the Royal Commission?

As for indentured labor/servitude it was common in British Empire from the time of abolition onwards. Many races were involved including Irish. As a mate of mine says, who has impeccable English working class credentials: nothing the English did in the colonies was not also done first to their own people!

Yeah so it was ugly. Life was tough 100+ years ago. No welfare, hard manual labour, high infant mortality, safety practices unheard of but if you had no gainful employment you died of starvation.

Denialism of what precisely? I just don’t swallow everything I read in the mainstream media.

It seems to be a bit of a special argument.
- Slavery didnt exist in Australia.
- yes it did
- but the Brits outlawed it
- yes they did but it continued to occur
- maybe but it was outside of jurisdiction. In the wild west
- the same wild west that had a government. And that government set up a royal commission that identified that slavery was occurring. It was clearly significantly a problem to have a royal commission. It took the WA government over 30 years since their formation to act on the illegal and well established slavery practices.


So the result of the discussion is that yes there was slavery in Australia. It was outlawed and that was eventually policed.
The government/society response was far slower than other communities.
No doubt that local politics, the state capabilities/resources and racism contributed to the delay.
Good discussion!
 
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