Talking Politics | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Talking Politics

Baloo said:
To be fair, this wasn't an agreed town hall. Sky News just decided when and where to have won and invited both leaders publicly to turn up without any prior discussion. That's not how it's done. Cheap point scoring by Sky.

As far as MT is concerned, I still want to see what he is like as an elected PM which will give him more leverage in the party room. His policies and speech now are not what he used to believe in. He's got to keep the feral tea party types at bay for now.

If the same LNP types are still there after the election why would he change? Why would the party want to change if they won the election on the back of continuing the same policies as the Abbott government? Nothing will change just look at their responses to the NBN debacle.
 
RemoteTiger said:
This in my opinion is scare mongering by the conservatives - why do I say this.

In my life I have seen Australia go into debt many times - always bigger than the last time - and the cry from the Libs is "it is the end of our lifestyle" or "our kids will have to pay it back".

Its *smile* - Australian economics is cyclical -

Spot on remote.
 
IanG said:
If the same LNP types are still there after the election why would he change? Why would the party want to change if they won the election on the back of continuing the same policies as the Abbott government? Nothing will change just look at their responses to the NBN debacle.

I think we'll see a change if he wins an election. He would change because he wants to change, he wants to lead as the small l liberal he is.
 
IanG said:
If the same LNP types are still there after the election why would he change? Why would the party want to change if they won the election on the back of continuing the same policies as the Abbott government?

perhaps he thinks he would have a mandate to do things his way without the old the fuddy duddy conservative types in the LNP holding him to ransom? might be true. might not. he's still sold his soul for power either way.
 
Baloo said:
I think we'll see a change if he wins an election. He would change because he wants to change, he wants to lead as the small l liberal he is.

He doesn't lead in isolation he needs the backing of his party. IMO he's more of a risk than a Shorten led ALP who as has been said are making the running policy wise.

Plus he's been so smug and smarmy during this campaign so far, which annoys me no end when I know he doesn't believe in what he's espousing.
 
Carter said:
Here's how it'll play.

The Libs will know that they cannot secure the swingers with Abbot.

They can with Turnbull, so they ditch the PM six months out.

Now Labor has a problem cos they can't secure the swingers against Turnbull.

So they say hello Albo. They need him to secure the Labor heartland, which has been bleeding further left to the Greens.

The end result?

Probably another constipated government, gridlocked in the senate.

But at least we would've taken a step to the left along the major party axis.

You got Turnbull right, Shorten and Albo wrong.

You could still be right about a senate with no clear majority.
 
Baloo said:
I don't trust Shorten at all.

You couldn't trust anyone who tries to talk up his knowledge of Rugby League by suggesting you might get good odds for the Storm to get up against the Maroons in State of Origin.
 
YinnarTiger said:
You couldn't trust anyone who tries to talk up his knowledge of Rugby League by suggesting you might get good odds for the Storm to get up against the Maroons in State of Origin.

He didn't did he ?
 
YinnarTiger said:
It was on Shaun Micallef's show tonight. Could have been a made-up juxtaposition of recordings , but it looked genuine to me at the time.

Either way, its funny.
 
Giardiasis said:
It isn't up to everyone to decide, everyone doesn't get to decide where their money is spent, politicians and their agents decide, that is the whole point!

Basic contract law is that criminal contracts are unenforceable, such as person A making a contract with person B to rob person C. Your so called social contract is an attempt to legitimise crime against third parties. I won't be a dupe to the politics of obedience or pretend the emperor is wearing a fine outfit. What we have are rules for some rules for others. A private person prints money it is called counterfeiting, the government does it, it is called monetary policy. A private person robs another it is called theft, he government does it, it is called taxation. A private person buys and sells stolen goods it is called fencing stolen property, the government does it, it's called redistribution. You might not like harsh reality, but it's there for all to see. Pretending theft isn't theft doesn't change what's really going on.

Those people are not dying because aid is decreasing they are dying because of the horrible conditions they have to live in. By all means donate all you wish and encourage others, choose the organisation you think is doing the best job of it, but don't think yourself virtuous because you'd rob someone with the intentions of helping others. Government aid programs won't solve destitution and war, and it is very questionable how effective they are.

Semantics, the tax cut won't have the desired effect, i.e. tax revenue will drop! Perhaps we should increase the tax rate by 1.5%? Surely tax revenue will increase, a great result for Australia (whatever that's supposed to mean?). Then perhaps in a few years time, surely another small increase will be another boon! Then perhaps again in a few more years? Let's forget about the Australian business' shall we? Perhaps NSW should tax those nasty foreign Victorian companies!

So again, it is obvious that you are using tax revenue as your basis of determining the goodness of budget policy, which goes back to the question of where is money best spent, private individuals or politicians and their army of bureaucrats? Answering this question requires an understanding of the nature of man and economic law. You seem to think that arbitrary judgement trumps economic theory. To quote Murray Rothbard,
"It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialised discipline and one that most people consider to be a 'dismal science.' But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance."
I don't think myself virtuous. I do what I can, that's it, no more than that. There are many amazing people who do much much more than I can and am prepared to do.

I suspect you know nothing about foreign aid on the ground. When you have seen what is actually happening, as I have, then you can speak about facts. How do you know foreign aid programs are questionable in terms of how effective they are ? Most probably the answer is you don't. They are nowhere near perfect but they do help a lot of people.

Some problems are too big to solve but I have a very simple philosophy about that. If you do one thing and help one person, or support a program that helps some or encourage your Government to provide meaningful funding to help many then the world is at least better than if you didn't. I am sorry that doesn't meet your vision of economic purity.

I like the philosophy that humans have basic rights and we should stand up for them with our last breath. Others deserve our help because we are human, it's what makes us human.
 
Strangely that comic gave me a better understanding of what G-Man has been on about for years now.
 
Baloo said:
Strangely that comic gave me a better understanding of what G-Man has been on about for years now.

That series is great... usually more about traditional philosophy but hilarious nonetheless. And educational!
 
YinnarTiger said:
It was on Shaun Micallef's show tonight. Could have been a made-up juxtaposition of recordings , but it looked genuine to me at the time.

it was a slip-up. he had referred to Queensland v NSW. then he changed to talking about Storm. he knows who was playing in the SoO.
 
Derryn Hinch has drawn number one spot for the senate. He'd liven the place up if he gets in.
 
Going back to the US again, Louis CK sums it up for me:

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Sintiger said:
I don't think myself virtuous. I do what I can, that's it, no more than that. There are many amazing people who do much much more than I can and am prepared to do.

I suspect you know nothing about foreign aid on the ground. When you have seen what is actually happening, as I have, then you can speak about facts. How do you know foreign aid programs are questionable in terms of how effective they are ? Most probably the answer is you don't. They are nowhere near perfect but they do help a lot of people.

Some problems are too big to solve but I have a very simple philosophy about that. If you do one thing and help one person, or support a program that helps some or encourage your Government to provide meaningful funding to help many then the world is at least better than if you didn't. I am sorry that doesn't meet your vision of economic purity.

I like the philosophy that humans have basic rights and we should stand up for them with our last breath. Others deserve our help because we are human, it's what makes us human.
No doubt some government aid money goes to helping desperate people in need, but there is also no doubt that some of it (arguably most of it) is simply squandered in the corruption rife in the places in which the aid is directed. Typical government mismanagement exacerbates this problem. I have no problem with people providing aid where they see fit, but why should taxes be expropriated for this purpose? People are more than capable of sending money to charitable causes (as they do so now) then relying on government bureaucrats to decide for them. Without onerous taxation, they would be in an even better position to provide aid.

Your simple philosophy is fine and I agree with it, with the exception of encouraging your government. The government does not have funds, people have funds, the government gets these funds through theft. It is not about economic purity, it is about justice. The means don't justify the ends.

It doesn't logically follow from your last sentence that helping people requires government. In fact, if that is your goal, then the best means with which to obtain that goal is through encouraging individual responsibility, not by passing the buck to wasteful bureaucracy.