There is no such thing as home ground advantage.

[Dyer'ere]

Can't explain it at all.
All I can remember is my footy playing days on oppo grounds.
Some grounds just took a while to get used to playing on.
Then the state of the ground, the leaning goalposts, the crowd, garbage boundary umpires, exposure of the ground to wind,
mud, rain, crap heavy footy.
But if you were good enough you beat your oppo, but it took a while!

Except for GHMBNFHMBVFHNB stadium.

Hard to run the fat side when there isn't one.

I agree, Stackey and Coburgtiger. All grounds are different. Some rather.

On Geelong. The old Kardinia was said to have various quirks of pockets that only the locals understood because they trained on it. Richmond deadeye Chris Naish once famously missed a shot near the siren to win a game there and if we doubted the myth beforehand we were all aboard after that.

This leads into what I think is one of the very real bases of homeground advantage myth - rationalisation. Excuse making after a loss. In the absence of this excuse making/rationalisation Chris Naish just missed a hard shot. Deadeyes sometimes miss.

And as you say, Stackey, it can take some time to get used to playing at a different ground. Let's leave umpiring aside - we'll look at that later. But other than dimensions there aren't many differences between grounds. I'd say none that are significant.

The new Geelong ground is what - 100m wide, Coburgtiger? That's a bit peculiar. The point about ground difference is most apt at GHMBNFHMBVFHNB stadium.

The Adelaide Oval is a it wider. Dimma once said that it's [AO] an easy ground to defend. Therefore Geelong is an easy ground to defend.

Dimma demonstrated through his behaviour and therefore believes that if there's such a thing as home ground advantage it can be minimised or altogether negated. If it can be negated it's not much of a thing.

RFC wasn't much of a side until 2017. But we travelled. Good teams travel - win on the road. Why doesn't the homeground advantage hoodoo/voodoo apply to them? Is it really a thing?

 

[Sintiger]

Whether it should be real or not is one question but it is real for some

Brisbane's record in 26 games in 2023 was

Home 14-0 (one of them was a home game for the gather round)
Away 5-7

In the last 2 seasons it is

Home 24-2 (should have been 23-3 )
Away 11-14

That's real

 

[wigglyworm]

Don't you need to balance it up against how good a current side is to tell if it is a real home ground advantage? We went 20 odd games without losing one at the MCG when we were good and we are probably 50/50 now. Is it an advantage or not. Not so sure

I guess if you are winning them when you are crap at home that is a discernable advantage? If you are only fantastic when your team is ho hum not so much

 

[Dyer'ere]

It's obvious that there is no homeground advantage except perhaps for flukey pockets or odd-shaped grounds and even then I think it's *smile*. It's obvious because no team can give more than 100%. By definition that is the most anyone can give.

Until late 1994 we all spoke uncritically of home ground advantage. Particularly at the home ground of WCE. They were invincible there. So facing only the mediocre (eighth-placed Collingwood) they faced a relatively easy rubber in the QF. This is the game that showed us that the whole ground advantage thing was voodoo -

Take a look here at some of the crude numbers if you like.

 

[davidc0055]

There is no such thing as home ground advantage because no on can give more than 100%.

I'm struggling to understand the relevance of "no one can give more than 100%". The away team can give less than 100% because of the lack of supporters, allowing an advantage to the home team.

 

[Dyer'ere]

I'm struggling to understand the relevance of "no one can give more than 100%". The away team can give less than 100% because of the lack of supporters, allowing an advantage to the home team.

You're all over it, davidc. But I'm teasing it out.

Most sane posters would immediately have scoffed at the idea that there is no such thing as homeground advantage. But when we scratch the surface we find it's pretty much right. Except perhaps for some ground familiarity advantages.

Now we're only looking for the disadvantages the away side faces. We've halved our workload.

What happened to Collingwood's awayground disadvantage in 1994? That game changed the world. Clubs, especially RFC, did new stuff.

 

[bullus_hit]

A home ground advantage won Brisbane a final because the bloke who was adjudicating the video happened to be a Brisbane supporter, this is a more extreme example but umps tend to favour home teams. I get it, it's hard to adjudicate fairly when fans are baying for blood but it's reality and it has won quite a few close encounters. I wonder if the play-on call in the GF would have occurred away from the MCG, I have my doubts.

 

[davidc0055]

You're all over it, davidc. But I'm teasing it out.

Then why include the "no one can give more than 100%" at all?

 

[Dyer'ere]

Then why include the "no one can give more than 100%" at all?

It's just about precise language and getting a better understanding, davidc. I'm stating the obvious - that no one can give more than 100% to kill the obvious myth - that the home team is playing above itself.

Commentators will write as if the home team, say the Eagles in 1994, is a special phenomenon at its home ground. "The House of Pain" etc. That they are a playing above 100%. In 1994 most of us believed it.

That QF 1994 took the focus off home ground advantage and showed us that we were dealing with away ground disadvantage. Collingwood didn't have to counter the Eagles intimate knowledge of the special pockets and ground dimensions. And the Eagles don't give 110% at home. That's impossible.

The quite inferior Collingwood nearly won the impossible road game because they had a crowd. That was the first big moment in conquering the phenomenon of away ground disadvantage.

Since then clubs have steadily built vocal fanbases in hostile regions. At no small expense, particularly by the players pre and post match.

 

[Leysy Days]

One thing to also consider is that some teams build the team/style to suit their ground.

Geelong over the past decade, big midfielders and stacked keys at each end.

It's a skinny ground so opponents can't go round em. Have to go through them. And in defence especially they have always been stacked with aerialists.

Likewise us during the dynasty. The fastest, fittest team by a mile that played it's home games on the widest ground. When we won what 20 in a row we went small, everyone could run all day and we just outworked teams until they cracked.

Going back further Sydney on the small ground with Kennedy, Parker, Goodes, Bolton, Hanneberry bullying teams in the middle on a postage stamp.

 

[tigerdell]

One thing to also consider is that some teams build the team/style to suit their ground.

Geelong over the past decade, big midfielders and stacked keys at each end.

It's a skinny ground so opponents can't go round em. Have to go through them. And in defence especially they have always been stacked with aerialists.

Likewise us during the dynasty. The fastest, fittest team by a mile that played it's home games on the widest ground. When we won what 20 in a row we went small, everyone could run all day and we just outworked teams until they cracked.

Going back further Sydney on the small ground with Kennedy, Parker, Goodes, Bolton, Hanneberry bullying teams in the middle on a postage stamp.

this.
We saw it too with Dimma, post 18. He gave away the interstate games, let them slip. To conserve and preserve the champs for the real stuff.
When it mattered we could win anywhere, say in Pordaddylade on a wet preliminary weekend

 

[tora]

Except for GHMBNFHMBVFHNB stadium.

Hard to run the fat side when there isn't one.

I've never understood how there is only one Victorian side that's:

A) allowed to have a stand alone home ground.
B) allowed to build it to the dimensions of a bowling alley.

We play a non co-tenant 6 times in 2024 at the MCG.

6 times where it could be claimed we have the HG advantage. Out of 23 games.

The cats get that 10 times. At a ground with a legitimate advantage.

And it's not like they're a Perth side that has to travel interstate all the time either. Half their away games are in Melbourne.

It's messed up.

It's narrow . Hardly a secret. Train with witches hats get used to it.

Our record at marvel is laughable. given we play there several times a year and drop games to north, dogs and suns

Is that why we got Ziebell? Teach us the dark arts of winning at the other side of town

 

[Dyer'ere]

One thing to also consider is that some teams build the team/style to suit their ground.

Geelong over the past decade, big midfielders and stacked keys at each end.

It's a skinny ground so opponents can't go round em. Have to go through them. And in defence especially they have always been stacked with aerialists.

Likewise us during the dynasty. The fastest, fittest team by a mile that played it's home games on the widest ground. When we won what 20 in a row we went small, everyone could run all day and we just outworked teams until they cracked.

Going back further Sydney on the small ground with Kennedy, Parker, Goodes, Bolton, Hanneberry bullying teams in the middle on a postage stamp.

No doubt about it, Bryan. Been going on for years. They used to water Linton Street by accident so that their superior mudtracker Glen Elliot (could not sweat on a dry track) could win them games.

But in the case of GHMBNFHMBVFHNB Stadium, as tora points out, it's really skinny ground advantage. And that would apply just as much at AO. And, I guess, Subi.

And in the case of the SCG it's smaller ground advantage and might apply equally at say Skoda(?).

If Steve Hocking believes that it would help business to plant a tall and wide tree at CHF at GHMBNFHMBVFHNB Stadium that would give Geelong a tree ground advantage. Until it caught on and everybody planted trees at CHF. (He's such a trendsetter!)

Once we understand that there is no such thing as HGA and if we can prove that Away Ground Disadvantage is a construct we can make money. Because the away side is often massive overs.

As you once posted "Barriers effect prices not results". Perhaps an away draw is just a bad barrier.

 

[larabee]

But in the case of GHMBNFHMBVFHNB Stadium, as tora points out, it's really skinny ground advantage. And that would apply just as much at AO. And, I guess, Subi.

Not disagreeing with your theory Jack, in fact I think the Away Ground Disadvantage is well worth considering.

But I think that Kardinia Park is unique among all other footy grounds and may be the exception that proves the rule.

Yes, it is skinny like other grounds. But unlike AO or Subi, it only has one wing.

It is the only “oval” that is not oval shaped. More like a jelly bean with one curved side and one side almost flat.

The dimensions and shape, along with the fact that Geelong get to regularly train on their home ground, mainly play interstate teams and lower Victorian clubs there, and don’t have a co-tenant, makes it unique in AFL.

The only Aussie Rules ground at any level that would have a greater HGA would be Queenstown in Tassie.

 

[Sintiger]

Our record at marvel is laughable. given we play there several times a year and drop games to north, dogs and suns

I think our record at marvel has a lot to do with game style. Marvel is always perfect, never a massive wind advantage or a wet ground and it therefore favours quick and precise ball movement.
Time and time again at Marvel in the last 3 years we have been picked apart by teams playing precision footy and we haven't been able to play that way. Our zone defence under Dimma also didn't suit that style of opponent on a perfect deck.
Hopefully Ooze will have is playing a style of footy more suited to Marvel.

 

[TigerPort]

The only Aussie Rules ground at any level that would have a greater HGA would be Queenstown in Tassie.

Ha Queenstown oval where they use the heavy roller to help flatten the rocks

 

[AngryAnt]

I think our record at marvel has a lot to do with game style. Marvel is always perfect, never a massive wind advantage or a wet ground and it therefore favours quick and precise ball movement.

also it's a depressing shithole dump

 

[Sintiger]

also it's a depressing shithole dump

is that you Dimma?

 

[TigerForce]

Not disagreeing with your theory Jack, in fact I think the Away Ground Disadvantage is well worth considering.

But I think that Kardinia Park is unique among all other footy grounds and may be the exception that proves the rule.

Yes, it is skinny like other grounds. But unlike AO or Subi, it only has one wing.

It is the only “oval” that is not oval shaped. More like a jelly bean with one curved side and one side almost flat.

The dimensions and shape, along with the fact that Geelong get to regularly train on their home ground, mainly play interstate teams and lower Victorian clubs there, and don’t have a co-tenant, makes it unique in AFL.

The only Aussie Rules ground at any level that would have a greater HGA would be Queenstown in Tassie.


View attachment 21252
View attachment 21253

Why is the blue wing straighter than the red wing? Failed maths at Pussy Park??

 

[DavidSSS]

Yep, Kardinia Park is just weird.

That straight wing is a travesty, the bloody ground isn't symmetrical, one wing is substantially narrower than the other.

FFS, you can't even compare it to Adelaide Oval. Kardinia Park is 115m wide, Adelaide Oval 124m wide and, as a comparison, the MCG 141m wide. The only ground I can find in the history of VFL/AFL which was narrower was possibly Glenferrie, but it was tiny and the measures from 1928 and 1946 state Glenferrie was 124m wide so wider than Kardinia Park.

Subiaco was narrow at 122m but also longer at 175m.

Geelong's win percentage at Kardinia Park is 68%, that's some advantage, and their win ratio at the huge VFL Park 43% which is a lot lower and VFL Park was massive: 180m x 142M.

Who knows, but Geelong certainly seem to benefit from that weird ground. Mind you they had a 66% win ratio at Corio which was long and wide, 174m x 138m. Maybe it is just something about playing in a country town.

DS