Umpire farce - Getting worse by the minute!

[MD Jazz]

Interesting that the On The Couch team think its become a ridiculous rule. All were for it at the start of the season but recognise its farcical and farcically applied.

We can only hope the stand rule becomes the next one they turn against.

 

[Redford]

Interesting that the On The Couch team think its become a ridiculous rule. All were for it at the start of the season but recognise its farcical and farcically applied.

We can only hope the stand rule becomes the next one they turn against.

Even the obstinate Lyon has gone 180 and conceded its maybe gotta go.

 

[waiting]

When I watch the ‘stand rule ‘ at my sons under 17’s you realise just how BAD this rule is.

You can’t have a rule where you got to STAND, NOT MOVE an inch and watch YOUR OPPONENT run past you while you are WAITING for the umpire to call PLAY ON.

I can’t believe that when this was thought of and brought in stealth style in season 2021 that ALL the coaches didn’t just say, hang on a minute this rule is BS….

 

[The Big Richo]

So as of last week, it was Richmond 150/221 and the Bulldogs 204/154.

Holding the man/push category Richmond 73/71, Bulldogs 78/57.

High tackle/holding the ball: Richmond 56/89, Bulldogs 83/72.

The Bulldogs are exceptional in the push category, AFL 1st in for and AFL last in against, perhaps something about their high disposal efficiency and ability to put the ball to advantage.

Putting that aside, if you reverse the tackle related numbers the tally becomes Richmond 177/204, Bulldogs 177/171.

As much as I don't want to be giving the free kick differential any validity at all as a stat, that's a key reason for the difference between the two clubs.

Not subjective? Its completely subjective depending on how the individual umpire feels/views/sees the players reaction.

That's not the rule being subjective, that's just the game. The rule is crystal clear, Brad Scott said the acceptable level of dissent is zero. So if you question an umpire's decision in any way you are breaking the rule.

It's not an automatic wicketkeeper though so sometimes you will get away with things, like every other rule because they all depend on what umpires feel/view/see etc....

If the umpire wasn't looking at Lynch on Saturday and didn't pay that, it wouldn't make the rule subjective, it just means he didn't see it. There was one in a Carlton game early in the year the AFL named as an error and then the umpires came out and said we aren't looking that way in a contest like that. There was another one when a player raised their arms but was actually saying what the *smile* are you doing to the team mate who didn't fill the hole.

It's not really any different to players who choose to throw the ball when they are facing outside or running 16 metres without a bounce or blocks or holds or other sneaky acts. Sometimes you will get away with them because the umpire is unsighted or looking at something else or just makes a mistake and sometimes you will get caught and cop the penalty. It doesn't make the rule subjective, it's just the nature of the game.

 

[MD Jazz]

That's not the rule being subjective, that's just the game. The rule is crystal clear, Brad Scott said the acceptable level of dissent is zero. So if you question an umpire's decision in any way you are breaking the rule.

It's not an automatic wicketkeeper though so sometimes you will get away with things, like every other rule because they all depend on what umpires feel/view/see etc....

If the umpire wasn't looking at Lynch on Saturday and didn't pay that, it wouldn't make the rule subjective, it just means he didn't see it. There was one in a Carlton game early in the year the AFL named as an error and then the umpires came out and said we aren't looking that way in a contest like that. There was another one when a player raised their arms but was actually saying what the *smile* are you doing to the team mate who didn't fill the hole.

It's not really any different to players who choose to throw the ball when they are facing outside or running 16 metres without a bounce or blocks or holds or other sneaky acts. Sometimes you will get away with them because the umpire is unsighted or looking at something else or just makes a mistake and sometimes you will get caught and cop the penalty. It doesn't make the rule subjective, it's just the nature of the game.

Jeez, we will never agree on this. If its zero level of tolerance there are stacks being missed every game. Its a terrible rule, one that has only made the umpires job harder and reduced their already miserable approval rating with the fans. And doubt it has had any meaningful impact at any level, either encouraging young people to want to umpire or reducing the abuse at community level.

Unfortunately this is going down the track of most of our ump discussions where your arguments are usually centred around the umpires infallability combined with the fans stupidity and ignorance.

 

[Brodders17]

If the umpire wasn't looking at Lynch on Saturday and didn't pay that, it wouldn't make the rule subjective, it just means he didn't see it. There was one in a Carlton game early in the year the AFL named as an error and then the umpires came out and said we aren't looking that way in a contest like that. There was another one when a player raised their arms but was actually saying what the *smile* are you doing to the team mate who didn't fill the hole.

It's not really any different to players who choose to throw the ball when they are facing outside or running 16 metres without a bounce or blocks or holds or other sneaky acts. Sometimes you will get away with them because the umpire is unsighted or looking at something else or just makes a mistake and sometimes you will get caught and cop the penalty. It doesn't make the rule subjective, it's just the nature of the game.

so the umps have to subjectively guess what the players are raising their arms about? or swearing about?

 

[TigerMasochist]

View attachment 15413

FMD. Last by a long way again. Time for a new coach n massive list clean out so we can play nice, pretty footy n not come last again.

 

[The Big Richo]

If its zero level of tolerance there are stacks being missed every game.

Isn't every rule zero tolerance with misses every game? I don't understand the point here, a missed decision doesn't change the rule or give you an out when you break it?

so the umps have to subjectively guess what the players are raising their arms about? or swearing about?

I guess they interpret based on what they see and hear on the ground, like every other decision. Which takes us right back tot he original point of how stupid it is to make any gesture towards them.

Do nothing, no decision to make. Like I said it is the easiest thing you ever be asked to do on an AFL field, absolutely nothing.

 

[kyuss]

Isn't every rule zero tolerance with misses every game? I don't understand the point here, a missed decision doesn't change the rule or give you an out when you break it?



I guess they interpret based on what they see and hear on the ground, like every other decision. Which takes us right back tot he original point of how stupid it is to make any gesture towards them.

Do nothing, no decision to make. Like I said it is the easiest thing you ever be asked to do on an AFL field, absolutely nothing.

Easy for a player in the heat of the moment, playing in front of a massive crowd to do nothing when they feel they have been hard done by??
C’mon mate that is ridiculous and you know it.
So these players are expected to give it there all, show passion and determination, but once the umpire blows the whistle they have to shut the *smile* up and STAND!!
But once the siren blows. Dance monkey. We’re going to put some *smile* head with a microphone in your rooms and you’re expected to be charming and articulate when you’re knackered after a game. The games turned into an absolute circus.

 

[The Big Richo]

Easy for a player in the heat of the moment, playing in front of a massive crowd to do nothing when they feel they have been hard done by??
C’mon mate that is ridiculous and you know it.

For years and years you could spend you whole life working towards one of two or three spots in the Australian Cricket side, go on tour and be given out by an umpire (who actually was cheating) when you were clearly not out and all the was acceptable was a mild glare at them as you walked off.

So yep, I think keeping control, being professional and getting on with it is well within the capabilities of AFL players and I think we've seen that is the vast majority of cases so far this season.

 

[Tenacious Tiges]

For years and years you could spend you whole life working towards one of two or three spots in the Australian Cricket side, go on tour and be given out by an umpire (who actually was cheating) when you were clearly not out and all the was acceptable was a mild glare at them as you walked off.

So yep, I think keeping control, being professional and getting on with it is well within the capabilities of AFL players and I think we've seen that is the vast majority of cases so far this season.

I think the psychologists disagree with you mate.

 

[RoarEmotion]

For years and years you could spend you whole life working towards one of two or three spots in the Australian Cricket side, go on tour and be given out by an umpire (who actually was cheating) when you were clearly not out and all the was acceptable was a mild glare at them as you walked off.

So yep, I think keeping control, being professional and getting on with it is well within the capabilities of AFL players and I think we've seen that is the vast majority of cases so far this season.

Spot on. It’s called emotional intelligence.

Not always easy but a learnable behaviour and something you can improve on if you want to.

I expect fans to vent incoherently at umpire decisions and may be guilty of it myself but we can expect more from the players given the rule is what it is and being interpreted the way it is.

 

[DavidSSS]

All this talk of rules not being enforced every time the umpire sees an indiscretion, and then wonder about people getting upset. FFS they have 3 umpires on the ground so they can see the indiscretions, and there are plenty they see and don't pay.

Respect is earned, the farcical dissent rule is making umpires look pathetic, look like they can't handle the game and need help from head office. So stupid on so many levels. It is reducing respect for umpires because they are seen to be giving a penalty which is way to extreme for the alleged crime.

DS

 

[MD Jazz]

Isn't every rule zero tolerance with misses every game? I don't understand the point here, a missed decision doesn't change the rule or give you an out when you break it?

The point is it is not zero tolerance and Ray has discussed as such on SEN. If it was zero tolerance every arm raise, head throwback etc would be penalised. Comparing it to cricket is ridiculous BTW. And watch how many batsman react poorly to what they perceive as a wrong decision. I’d argue every one shows some level of dissent. It has only reduced since the review system came in. Even then many still show dissent after a review gives them out. And captains still remonstrate after reviews!!

Do nothing, no decision to make. Like I said it is the easiest thing you ever be asked to do on an AFL field, absolutely nothing.

That’s like saying you should never make a high tackle because you know it is likely to be penalised. It’s easy.

 

[Sintiger]

The Captain can talk to the umpires during the game and at the break but informally after every goal there are conversations between players and umpires about what is happening in the game. They all stand there having a drink and the forwards whinge they are being held and the defenders whinge they are being blocked.

I don't think the rule is subjective, if you question a decision, especially with gestures then you cop a penalty. Like any rule sometimes the umpire won't see it, sometimes they might not pay it and sometimes what we think we see as viewers might not be the full picture, but if you do it then that's the outcome you are risking. It's like speeding, you can often get away with it but if you get caught you cop the penalty.

I don't have any sympathy for the players and I don't think a strong leadership group would either. The easiest thing you will ever be asked to do on an AFL ground is nothing.

Of course it’s subjective. Seriously TBR to suggest otherwise is nonsense I’m afraid.
The evidence is right in front of us, there is massive inconsistency and I don’t blame the umpires for that because they are human and have been handed a dud rule.
Interpreting abuse or real dissent is subjective as well but at least it happens far less and also doesn’t result in massive penalties for incredibly minor things. I am. I apologist for DeGoey but I look at what he did on Friday night and actually think he was incredibly restrained. To penalise that is garbage imo

 

[Stackey]

There is a better way to do it. You ask the umpire if you can discuss the contest (and assuming they aren’t petty and ignore you) just ask them to watch out for being held next time please because you thought you were being held but maybe the ump didn’t see it or disagreed. Try and influence the next contest / do it in earshot of the defender too / do it respectfully.

You are absolutely correct on the subjective nature of it. Different umps will pay it differently.

@The Big Richo is right though - just be smarter and don’t risk it. Especially with razor. That is stupid as you can almost guarantee he will pay it. Emma has her work cut out. This kind of *smile* kills us.

I’m pissed at the rule but also pissed at our players who can’t control themselves. Have the emotion but channel it into desire/effort and not frustration.

No he is not.
When a rule is subjectively applied in different games it's a bad rule in my opinion.

 

[MD Jazz]

Of course it’s subjective. Seriously TBR to suggest otherwise is nonsense I’m afraid.
The evidence is right in front of us, there is massive inconsistency and I don’t blame the umpires for that because they are human and have been handed a dud rule.
Interpreting abuse or real dissent is subjective as well but at least it happens far less and also doesn’t result in massive penalties for incredibly minor things. I am. I apologist for DeGoey but I look at what he did on Friday night and actually think he was incredibly restrained. To penalise that is garbage imo

Yep. Arguable it wasn’t a free. Pies kick a few in a row, get a bit of momentum. DeG a big part of it. His tackle was good I thought. So did he. So potentially a bad decision followed up by a 50 that changed the flow of the game.

A completely unnecessary rule change applied haphazardly.

 

[mjb]

If the player with the ball is outside the boundary line (from a mark/free kick) and chooses to play on surely he has to come onto the field. There’s been plenty of players recently (stand rule meaning the man on the mark has his foot in the line) who’ve chosen to play on and run past the man on the mark outside the boundary. Why is that not ruled out of bounds? Obviously different to actually taking your kick from over the line.

 

[HR]

The recently introduced rules or what ever they are have ruined the game for alot of people.
Give me a black and white rule book, with no interpretation any day over this clap trap.
They still won't get every call right but at least the fans might stand a chance of understanding the game we loved before the hijacking.

 

[tigermouseau]

There is a better way to do it. You ask the umpire if you can discuss the contest (and assuming they aren’t petty and ignore you) just ask them to watch out for being held next time please because you thought you were being held but maybe the ump didn’t see it or disagreed. Try and influence the next contest / do it in earshot of the defender too / do it respectfully.

You are absolutely correct on the subjective nature of it. Different umps will pay it differently.

@The Big Richo is right though - just be smarter and don’t risk it. Especially with razor. That is stupid as you can almost guarantee he will pay it. Emma has her work cut out. This kind of *smile* kills us.

I’m pissed at the rule but also pissed at our players who can’t control themselves. Have the emotion but channel it into desire/effort and not frustration.

So let’s just take the emotion out of the game….simples! Second most ridiculous rule after the stand rule.