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Umpire farce - Getting worse by the minute!
- Thread starter iLoVeNeWmAn
- Start date
Just watched 360 and it showed that the umpire said that it was payed for prohibited contact.
Robbo was in fine form, and amazingly he didn't think this was the worst decision of the game. He agreed with what I posted earlier that the push against Mitchell in the last quarter was the "softest free kick he'd ever seen".
And still cant fill the MCG. For a team that has underperformed for so many years, when you start winning expect to fill the MCG, cant even do that.
I thought he said he loved the game. Called it best of the round and said just 13 of the 63 free kicks were bs.
He's getting in bed with Cartoon now...
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Mince wouldn’t know what the real experience is. I bet he’s never sat in the outer amongst the fans.
Nah. He said the game produced a close result and it was exciting at the end in that respect but that nearly half the frees were either wrong or didn’t need to be paid, and the game was terribly over umpired.
Has anyone got a handle on why the cheats failed to use the snick meter to overrule the goal umpires decision on Dusty’s certain goal , we ve certainly been stiffed in the past when they strum a guitar in the ARC to make certain of their intent REF shais blinder in 4Q ‘20 QF v lions
Mince and Magoo asking Jack and Trac about the flogs. Jack speaks more and Petracca just stays a bit quiet. Makes you wonder what the league and these flogs do every time this is discussed on TV. Let's see how many questions Razorbrain cops tomorrow(?) on Dwayne's World on SEN.
Just watching the 2nd quarter.
- About 2 mins in, Kmac taken to ground by Guelfi without the ball, play on
- Ball moves forward, Lynch and Reid holding each other on the line, free to Bombers
- Just before 14 mins left, Durham ducks head into Maurice tackle, ball is thrown out (he was facing me at that time, ball was in one hand and fell out due to the tackle) - No free
- Straight after above, ball goes into our F50, Baker takes a great mark, tries to go back off the mark but I think its Vlastuin on the ground. Ump calls play on as Baker didn't want to step on him (wasn't playing on but had to move off the line - common sense should come into it), forced to play on, kicks out on the full
- Ball comes back in (and this shows how much of a numbnuts Darcy is) and we clear. Vlastuin and Smith are getting into it (I was watching this from the stands), yes there was some to and fro, pushes to the chest by both of them, and then Smith punched him in the guts. Free to us correctly but Darcy goes "its always the retaliator that gets caught" as if it was only Vlastuin going for it, they both went for it, and Smith clearly went too far
- 12.13 left. Sling tackle paid against Grimes in front of goal, its as poor a decision watching it now as it was at the ground. Both arms are out, neither are pinned, rolled him perfectly onto the chest so chance of a head knock is minimal. Poor decision by number 13 (Nick Brown). Grimes saw it on the big screen and had a massive smirk on his face like "seriously, thats a joke mate" - 1 goal to the umpire swing column towards the Bombers
- 9.17 to go, ball kicked down the members wing to Soldo in a 1 on 2. Soldo goes to take a mark over front man, defender comes over the top and punches it away from him. Free paid for unrealistic!! He would have taken the mark if not for the punch. Crazy decision. I think it was Brown again (this guy seems to over umpire)
- 7.30 to go, ball goes into our F50. MRJ possibly push in the back to Laverde and then possibly high when on the ground. Probably got a bit lucky with that one. Only marginal on the high as he turned him and then went over the top. Behind anyway so no biggie
- 3.06 to go. Tarrant kicks a big kick for goal. I'm still not sure why that free is paid against Lynch, no replay shown. Number 4 this time (Justin Power). 2nd goal in the "umpire swing differential"
- 2.50 to go. MRJ possibly gets away with a HTB. Essendon win the ball anyway and take it forward
That was actually a really strong quarter by us. Very dominant. We get 5.2, they kicked 2.1 and there was probably a 2 goal swing in their favour from umpiring decisions
- About 2 mins in, Kmac taken to ground by Guelfi without the ball, play on
- Ball moves forward, Lynch and Reid holding each other on the line, free to Bombers
- Just before 14 mins left, Durham ducks head into Maurice tackle, ball is thrown out (he was facing me at that time, ball was in one hand and fell out due to the tackle) - No free
- Straight after above, ball goes into our F50, Baker takes a great mark, tries to go back off the mark but I think its Vlastuin on the ground. Ump calls play on as Baker didn't want to step on him (wasn't playing on but had to move off the line - common sense should come into it), forced to play on, kicks out on the full
- Ball comes back in (and this shows how much of a numbnuts Darcy is) and we clear. Vlastuin and Smith are getting into it (I was watching this from the stands), yes there was some to and fro, pushes to the chest by both of them, and then Smith punched him in the guts. Free to us correctly but Darcy goes "its always the retaliator that gets caught" as if it was only Vlastuin going for it, they both went for it, and Smith clearly went too far
- 12.13 left. Sling tackle paid against Grimes in front of goal, its as poor a decision watching it now as it was at the ground. Both arms are out, neither are pinned, rolled him perfectly onto the chest so chance of a head knock is minimal. Poor decision by number 13 (Nick Brown). Grimes saw it on the big screen and had a massive smirk on his face like "seriously, thats a joke mate" - 1 goal to the umpire swing column towards the Bombers
- 9.17 to go, ball kicked down the members wing to Soldo in a 1 on 2. Soldo goes to take a mark over front man, defender comes over the top and punches it away from him. Free paid for unrealistic!! He would have taken the mark if not for the punch. Crazy decision. I think it was Brown again (this guy seems to over umpire)
- 7.30 to go, ball goes into our F50. MRJ possibly push in the back to Laverde and then possibly high when on the ground. Probably got a bit lucky with that one. Only marginal on the high as he turned him and then went over the top. Behind anyway so no biggie
- 3.06 to go. Tarrant kicks a big kick for goal. I'm still not sure why that free is paid against Lynch, no replay shown. Number 4 this time (Justin Power). 2nd goal in the "umpire swing differential"
- 2.50 to go. MRJ possibly gets away with a HTB. Essendon win the ball anyway and take it forward
That was actually a really strong quarter by us. Very dominant. We get 5.2, they kicked 2.1 and there was probably a 2 goal swing in their favour from umpiring decisions
I can't answer it but I suspect someone with access to the full range of stats who was prepared to do a full analysis could find some indicators.
There was a run of a couple of games last year when we dramatically changed game style. I think it was the Adelaide and Essendon games which were high possession, high uncontested count and lots of uncontested kick/mark chains.
We comfortably won the free kick count in both those games. That game style started in the second half comeback against the Bulldogs. Guess who won the free kick count last night? That's right we beat the Bulldogs in a free kick tally.
When I say dramatically changed, some of the numbers were the highest since 2018 or so from memory. (I've somehow lost all my posts so I can't find the details. I posted about it at the time but was naturally dismissed as an umpire lover and generally ignored).
I remain convinced that if you punched in some combination of data around things like possession numbers, marks, kick to handball ratios, disposal efficiency, contested and uncontested numbers, tackles, spoils, pressure indices and whatever else you would find a formula that gives a rationale for a team's free kick tallies, for and against.
Good morning and I am glad you are back Richo.
Now let's get to it.
Your above post might actually give a rationale as you suggest.
I still believe it to be misaligned to fairness and what all AFL followers expect.
The issue nearly all of us have is that regardless of how a team or an individual play, any act worthy of a free should be worthy of a free regardless of any rationale or theory available.
Now the umps have always missed frees. Granted. But the is no justification even including your rationale to not reward or punish every act in the same manner as best they can.
We play differently to others, but we still tackle, we still spoil, we still play the same game. We also miss the recognition of a greater proportion of rewards as we know from our FKD stats. These are not meant to be even! I know. It is not the point I am making.
The Ess game was as bad as its been for a long time. I have watched a replay with a cool head. It was bad.
I think we will still have to disagree on the Clayton Oliver throw of the the ball too. Regardless of the made up rule in 2022, once possession is taken a kick or a handball should be the only way to legally dispose of the football.
Funny thing is our game style didn't change in our flag years, yet during finals we didn't suffer the same negative consequences as in H&A, so your theroies on game style being a factor do not hold true. I think I've posted these before to highlight the fallacy of your argument.
Ultimately when the game is umpired in the truest sense and by the best umpires we seem to be judged differently.
2017 - 3 x Finals
FF - 68
FA- 62
2019 - 3 x Finals
FF - 60
FA - 56
2020 - 4 x Finals
FF - 60
FA - 72
OVERALL -
FF - 188
FA - 190
In raw numbers break even in the free kick stats and we win the flag.
That's not the rule though HR, and hasn't been for many, many years, much longer than 2022. Prior opportunity is key.
Your position is only valid if you are arguing finals are an equivalent data set to home and away football. I'd argue they are completely different in key areas and are also umpired differently.
I'd suggest most people would agree finals generally are more contested, contain less possession with longer, more direct ball use and have higher pressure than home and away games. Which team does that sound like?
If you look at the change in average from home and away to finals in those finals series, the change is +2.2 for and -.65 against.
So the reality is we aren't doing much different in terms of giving frees away, but other teams are giving more to us, when they are playing more like we do. Again I think that supports the theory there's game style links.
I also think pure logic supports the notion game style has to impact. The vast majority of free kicks are contest related, if you have a high count of uncontested marks then the free count must logically change. For example if you have 130 odd uncontested marks like we did in those games I mentioned previously, and each kick and mark chews up 10 seconds of time, that's over a quarter of the game you've moved the ball without a contest. Without even thinking too much you could come up with 10 other game style factors that would have huge influence.
Not bad TBR but the disposal numbers do not support your argument. We played identically, low possession very direct style. In the 3 games against the Cats (glorious glorious games might I add) they played the same style, its one of the reasons we beat them every time. One of the reasons their finals record is so poor. That and Rohan/Miers/Dalhouse.
But the Geelong game style was very similar every time. And if anything the tigers ramped up the physicality in finals (we were a much better contested possession/clearance team in finals) so you would think we would have given away even more frees? We out tackled the opposition overall 662 to 600 over the 10 finals we won the flag years. So surely if we are such a poor tackling technique team that I often see argued that would lend itself to an even bigger discrepancy than we are used to?
No, I think its a combo of better umpires applying more common sense come finals. We played the same way every game for nigh on 5 years, yet got treated differently in the finals.
