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IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
What an absolute disgrace
- Thread starter johnson2richo2003
- Start date
Liverpool said:1-eyed,
If you want to talk about priorities....how about giving jobs to OUR unemployed BEFORE we start hiring labour in from the Pacific islands?
http://sl.farmonline.com.au/news/nationalrural/agribusiness-and-general/general/aboriginal-leader-slams-pacific-island-labour-plan/1253157.aspx
As far as i'm concerned....instead of stopping payments to parents who have kids that wag school (mind you, good idea...wonder if it will filter down to the Aboriginal families where wagging school is rife under the banner of protecting 'cultural identity'?)....why doesn't the Government look at stopping payments to people who are fit, healthy, and been unemployed for longer than 6 months who refuse to go and do this fruit-picking.......fruit-picking that the Government is prepared to spend $$$ on importing people to do?
And with the downturn int he economy...what will happen to these people once they are here and then lose their job?
Let me guess......dole queue....gee, maybe the Chairman can have a "QueueWatch" to go along with his Fuelwatch, Grocerywatch, and whatever 'watch' he has going because there seems to be a lot of watching, but not much doing!
But the master plan is votes...that is what counts.
If you are a Pacific Islander....living on some God-foresaken hole in the middle of the ocean with no prospects and you get given the opportunity to come to Australia, all expenses paid, to work and start a life here.....who would you vote for next election???
Vote 1 Chairman Rudd!
The Australian government works for Australian citizens first and foremost and that's where the priorities should lie. Agree with you here. The needs of Australians should be at the top of the list. The wants of Australians come next. Then a tax cut.
I don't agree with forcing people to be fruit pickers though. It's up to each industry to make employment an attractive proposition. It's all very well that farmer's want their crops processed but they don't seem to want to pay fair wages for the work being performed. Solution is simple, improve wages and conditions and more people might be prepared to go and be fruit pickers and there wouldn't be a problem.
ps. You seem to have some sort of obsession with that picture ;D
1eyedtiger said:
I think if people are out of work for a long period and cannot get their desirable/preferable career, then they should be forced to do fruit-picking if that is an area that is underemployed.
Why should people be able to sit back on welfare, bleeding the Australian taxpayer dry, just because they cannot get their perfect career?
And then to top it off.....we have this ridiculous notion of importing workers to do a seasonal job, and I'm tipping they will then be added to the Australians already on welfare once their employment ceases.....so there we have more for the taxpayer to fork out as well as increasing pressure on our resources (housing, food, water, medical, transport, etc)
But as I said in my previous post....if you are an Islander and have been given the opportunity to come to Australia by the Chairman, who would you vote for in the next election?
He is simply buying votes.
Liverpool said:
It is my understanding that these islanders can only be employed in the horticultural industry for seasonal work and can only stay in Australia for 6 months of the year.
I never said that it was ok for people to bum around on the dole. The unemployed are required by centrelink to look for work. If they don't, they don't get their welfare. You can't force people into the workforce.
Would you be as enthusiastic about if it you were suddenly unemployed (no fault of your own, of course ;D ) and told by centrelink that you had to relocate and work long, hard hours for little reward?
Like I said, provide decent wages and conditions and perhaps they wouldn't have as much trouble finding people and they wouldn't have to go crying to the government to get some slave labour from overseas.
Tiger74 said:
The Chairman will change the rules when it suits.
They'll get granted a 'special' visa and then allowed permanent residency...you just watch.
1eyedtiger said:
Buy why go to all that extra expense to bring them here and then watch the money they earn get sent out of the country when we could instead bring Aborigines and other unemployed people in remote areas of Australia to do the work, therefore keeping the money in this country?
Aboriginal leader slams Pacific Island labour plan
26/08/2008 2:14:00 PM
An Aboriginal leader in northwest New South Wales says a lack of transport and accommodation is stopping Aborigines from taking seasonal farm work such as fruitpicking and cotton chipping.
Michael Anderson, who speaks for the 16 clans of the Gumilaroi Nation in northwest NSW and southwest Queensland, has slammed the Federal Government's plans to fly in Pacific Islanders to fill the labour shortage on farms.
Mr Anderson said the pilot program, due to start later this year, was "a total farce".
"We have 90pc unemployment in the rural areas of NSW and southwest Queensland and they want to fly people across the waters to work in the industries that are within driving time for the people out here in the bush - what a sick joke," Mr Anderson said.
"If the federal government are prepared to arrange transport from the Pacific islands, then surely they can arrange for buses for our local workers."
http://sl.farmonline.com.au/news/nationalrural/agribusiness-and-general/general/aboriginal-leader-slams-pacific-island-labour-plan/1253157.aspx
1eyedtiger said:
I think if you are unemployed and have 'looked for work' for 6 months....yet the Government are importing workers, then you haven't looked hard enough, in my opinion.
And if I found myself unemployed and after 6 months of looking I had not found a job then I fully deserve to go where the Government feels I need to go if they are the one's paying my way.
1eyedtiger said:
They don't need to get unemployed people overseas here to do the work when we already have:
500+ workers at The Age out of a job:
http://news.smh.com.au/national/age-editor-sacked-from-his-position-20080827-43gu.html
150 people at Telstra out of a job:
http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/article/2008/08/28/17715_news.html
80 workers at PBR: out of a job:
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24254212-661,00.html
...and add to that the Aboriginal community and supporters crying out about their high levels of unemployment and I can't see a need to bring anyone into this country to work, especially fruit-picking.....FFS...its not like it is some kind of specialist brain surgery where there are only a limited number of people around the globe with the skill to do it.
Australian jobs for Australian people.
Tiger74 said:
You only write this because you know I am on the money.
The Chairman has rushed through 'special visas' before to suit the occasion:
Construction work visa changes on cards for Australian immigration
Tuesday, 11 March 2008
Construction workers wanting to live around the beach and wine regions could be in for a treat if Kevin Rudd follows through with immigration changes.
Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd has recently addressed the skills shortages in Australia's construction industry.
A special visa that will allow easier entry into Australia for builders could be introduced within three months of government approval.
http://www.migrationexpert.com/Australia/Visa/australian_immigration_news/2008/Mar/0/215/Construction_work_visa_changes_on_cards_for_Australian_immigration
New visa to attract superyachts to Australia
30 April 2008
“A new tailored visa for the crews of superyachts will provide a boost to the tourism industry”, the Minister for Immigration and Citizenship, Senator Chris Evans, said today. The new superyacht visa fulfilled a Rudd Government election commitment to create a special visa class to support the growing superyacht industry and assist tourism in areas like Queensland's Great Barrier Reef region
http://www.holdingredlich.com.au/what-s-news-in-immigration-|-12-may-2008
I'm tipping that once a few bleeding hearts start about the poor Islanders staying here, the Chairman will rush through another special visa to suit the occasion.
Liverpool said:
You can spout all the stuff you want, but please don't tell me what I think.
For the record I actually think these guys who are being granted special visas will not get an exemption, and if any do get permanent residency it will be because they are in industries Australia is targeting in its PR program.
I believe once again you are trying to eventually steer this to a race issue, but of course you will once again be all shocked and say its not just islanders and east timorese you have issues with, despite the fact they are the only locations being discussed for this program.
Tiger74 said:
Oh no....nothing to do with race....but an immigration issue, yes.
Go back to my previous posts....why bring Islanders here to complete unskilled labour tasks such as fruit-picking when we have people crying out for jobs here already?
And considering the Chairman stated this a while ago:
Prime Minister Kevin Rudd says an increase in unemployment predicted in last night's Budget is an essential part of the strategy to rein in inflation, and can partly be blamed on the global economic slowdown.
Treasurer Wayne Swan's first Budget included a forecast that unemployment will rise by 0.75 per cent by the middle of next year.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/05/14/2244105.htm
...I would have thought we had enough Australians here to fill Australian jobs.
So race issue?
No.
Immigration issue?
Yes.
Agree with Mundine here:
Get Aborigines picking fruit: Warren Mundine
August 19, 2008
INDIGENOUS leader and ALP powerbroker Warren Mundine has called on the Rudd Government to get unemployed Aborigines jobs picking fruit rather than bringing in Pacific islanders to do the job.
Mr Mundine said that allowing Pacific islanders to take part in a three-year pilot seasonal workers' scheme was "bizarre" when there were thousands of indigenous people out of work.
"It's quite bizarre that we are short of these workers," he said. "It seems to me craziness when we've got 83,000 Aboriginal people sitting in the Job Network system without a job."
The pilot program will allow up to 2500 workers from Kiribati, Tonga, Vanuatu and Papua New Guinea to work in the horticultural sector in Australia.
The workers will be allowed to take jobs harvesting fruit and vegetables for up to seven months each year and will be paid at Australian rates.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24203845-5013871,00.html
Of course, the Chairman doesn't come with any ideas himself (look at his copycat 'education revolution' the last few days stirring up the unions who got him into power... :hihi)......he has copied this Islander scheme from the lefty Kiwis who have had some fun with it already:
Hon. 'Akolo said that the problem with some of the Tongan workers was the attitude they had and some had questioned the proved ways in which the farms were run. Some workers consumed a lot of alcohol, some did not work regularly as agreed, and some were not even supposed to have been included in the scheme in the first place.Meanwhile, there are also some aspects concerning the NZ farms that need to be improved as per complaints lodged by Tongan RSE workers.
http://69.64.78.143/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=133&Itemid=1
Sour grapes in New Zealand fruit-picking scheme
Michael McKenna | August 28, 2008
AS Australia plans to import Pacific island fruit pickers, it has been dealt a cautionary tale that workers in a similar scheme in New Zealand were allegedly mistreated, given little work and underpaid.
Dozens of workers from the tiny island nation of Kiribati were housed in overcrowded conditions and after spending most of their lives in a hot climate, struggled to cope with the cold in some parts of New Zealand.
They also encountered problems such as how to use unfamiliar appliances such as toasters.
The workers were then left stranded by employers, who failed to provide promised jobs offered under the New Zealand seasonal visa scheme that the Rudd Government has used as a model for a pilot guest worker program in Australia.
Almost all of the 70 Kiribatis have returned home - some after only two months' work. About 10 others are believed to be on the run from immigration officials.
New Zealand's Labour Department is investigating the workers' experiences and their alleged mistreatment by at least one contractor after the Kiribati Government made a formal complaint that included questions about deductions being taken out of pay to cover travel and living expenses.
Although lauded as an overall success, the New Zealand Seasonal Employer scheme, which approved 92 businesses and issued 3932 islanders with visas in its first year, has been tainted by complaints about drunkenness and drug abuse among some workers and poor "pastoral care" from local communities.
The Australian plan, announced this month by Agriculture Minister Tony Burke, is modelled on the New Zealand trial and involves 2500 workers from Kiribati, Tonga, Vanuatu and Papua New Guinea picking fruit, most likely in NSW and Victoria.
Kiribati, Tonga and Vanuatu were selected because of their involvement in the New Zealand scheme. PNG was included after heavy lobbying by Prime Minister Michael Somare.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24253183-5013404,00.html
And to think....here we have more Australian money going back overseas when unemployed Australians doing this type of labour would more than likely see that money stay within this country.
evo said:
I actually have a position on this one, and that is in favour. This is why I have been disagreeing with Liverpool, in particular his ridiculour theory that its a great communist conspiracy to bring lefties into the country.
If any of you have had any dealings with fruit pickers you will know staffing is one of their biggest issues. They used to get seasonal workers (fruit picking in summer, ski fields in winter), but they now consider fruit picking too hard work for too little pay. Many farms did not help matters though by paying a pittance, and providing housing that was akin to a shanty town.
The backpackers then came along, and they have helped a lot in some areas, but this is still not enough. Outside of literally forcing people to relocate to work on farms (which has major issues - something I don't think we have ever done in Australia), I personally see the short term working visa as an option.
I also support this for industries which are highly cyclical where there is a training trough that cannot be overcome in the short term. Industries such as tiling and bricklaying had chronic shortages, and they require people with skills and training. As such forced labour is not viable as they are the wrong people for the wrong job (they will cost construction sites time and money by stuffing up the job).
As for the Chimp, show me anyone who is not pro-chimp ;D
Liverpool said:
Livers, I asked you that question on the assumption that you would pay your own way. You're not a foreigner.
This is where the heart of the matter is to me. The Australian government can bend over backwards helping foreigners but won't lift a finger to help Australians (see bold bit about buses). I think that there is something fundamentally wrong about that.
