Inevitable.
Where are their Community "Leaders" who should have been out there making sure the messages were sinking in?
Racism - pure BS.
It's down to their selfish behaviour and an apparent belief that the law doesn't apply to them.
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IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
Coronavirus
- Thread starter Tigers of Old
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Where are their Community "Leaders" who should have been out there making sure the messages were sinking in?
Racism - pure BS.
It's down to their selfish behaviour and an apparent belief that the law doesn't apply to them.
So will Dan refund all those who have already paid their fines or does this new rule only apply to a privileged few?
Daniel Andrews addressed this specifically in his press conference yesterday. Although people want to see fines for rule breaking, the information those invlved in the clusters can provide to health authorities is far more valuable to the community than the fines, or the sense of justice that comes with punishment.
It just makes the next outbreak harder to contain because people are afraid of the financial penalties and are not truthful, or don't come forward at all.
I can understand where your both coming from and it does seem hypocritical that other people have paid fines, but i'm not sure that any fines have been handed out retrospectively - they've all been people caught in the act of breaking the rules. Not 100% sure on this last point, so happy to be corrected, but that's my reading of the situation.
BTW - 21 is a fantastic number for VIC.
Put yourself in the shoes of the next person who does a very wrong and stupid thing.
Would you pay the fine?
Also if there is no fine how many people are now thinking it's a free for all.
No doubt the information is crucial but, in this case, would you trust what they tell you?
Yes but you Can extend this logic to all breaches of law.
”We found the gang that committed the murder but we’ve decided not to punish them because they’ve given us all the valuable information and we don’t want to scare off people in the future from cooperating because of fear of being punished and fined.”
I'd probably cop my right whack if i was caught out breaking the rules. But as i mentioned, the rules breaking in this particular case has already occurred. There is limited value in the fines if it means it results in an outbreak in another home/business. And that is likely to occur if those within a cluster don't provide accurate/truthful contact tracing.
I don't buy the notion that this somehow will result in others flaunting the rules, or a free-for-all as you put it. These people in the Hallam outbreak were pretty dumb, so unless others want to be perceived as being as dumb these people, i think the community is likely to continue following the rules.
Tim, that's a silly analogy because its not a murder case, its a public health issue. And no one would do that.
What would the benefit be to the community of making people pay these fines? It might make you feel that justice had been served, and quite frankly, you're feelings on this are far less important than public health.
Of course it’s a silly analogy, it’s meant to be to highlight the inconsistency. We either have fines and punishments in place to deter (or punish) or we don’t.
My “feelings “ on this are just as valid (or invalid) as yours.
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Calling it silly was being polite, its a ridiclous comparison to make as the circumstances are not even close to the same.
Again, what benefit to the community would there be in making these people pay fines, other than satisfying your sense of justice?
I'm not sure why this is tricky for you.
You can ask the above question for any breach that results in a fine.
Why have a fine for being even .051?
Why have a fine for doing 81 in an 80 zone?
It's nothing to do with my sense of justice
It's the fine that the state government has decreed people should pay if the breach the law or restrictions
It will provide encouragement to those numpties who plan on protesting again this weekend. Anything that encourages stupidity is in itself stupid.
As for the "community" the fact that they are claiming that them getting called out for their stupidity is racist speaks for itself.
The penalties for any crime deemed punishable by law is more arbitrary than you are suggesting. Judges make discretionary decisions all the time as to what sort of punishment is dished out, and that is determined by the specific circumstances of each case. Reasoning is usually provided as to why a particular decision on the punishment and why it might differ from community expectations.
A similar process has been followed here. The Premier and the public health team have already explained why those involved in this cluster have not been fined, and in my opinion its perfectly logical.
Most Victorians are not numpties and this incident won't encourage them to attend protests. Those going to protest were going to go anyway.
I think Brett Sutton probably shouldn't have singled out one particular ethnic group and stuck to talking about localities.
Edit - https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09...y-cluster-under-control-brett-sutton/12680222
"Victoria's Chief Health Officer Brett Sutton says a COVID-19 outbreak in Melbourne's south-east is coming under control, and has apologised for statements that caused some in the Afghan community to feel targeted this week"
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A needless apology for stating facts.
If it hadn't been someone who could play the race card they would have been fined and universally condemned.
Do I understand you correctly? so if you have coronavirus and breach the restrictions and spread it around then no penalties as having coronavirus is consequence enough? Seriously?
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I found that people who have had either drug or alcohol problems or both and are then born again, are more likely to really get....brain washed, for want of a better word.
I don't see it that way at all, its not in anyone's best interests to have Melbourne's afghan community feel unfairly targeted and pissed off. Sutton could have identified them by suburb. And apologising for it doesn't hurt anyone, in fact it demonstrates humility. I don't understand why anyone would have a problem with this.
The 34 people involved aren't representative of ALL people with afghani heritage currently living in Melbourne. I don't know what the total numbers are, but wager its a lot more than 34.
