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U.S Presidential Election
- Thread starter Chiang Mai Tiger
- Start date
Hey ant, where do you think Trump and republicans sit on the fascist scale? What fascist qualities are they currently missing in order to make them truly fascist? I wonder if every box has to be ticked before one or a movement or body can be accurately described as fascist.
Actually only need one word to describe his leadership. That being, “chaotic”. In fact that is the main word that was coming out of uniformed brass who served as aides to him. Bare in mind they would generally be right of centre on a lot of security issues too. Trump’s chaotic administrative style really worried them at what irreversible consequences it could bring.
Chaotic is a good word to describe Trump's presidency, but "chaotic" alone doesnt cover his dishonesty, his inconsistency, his rudeness, his bullying and his arrogance, amonsgt other traits.
*smile* would be a good word to describe him.
I guess the swear filter will edit that word so I will leave it up to everyone’s imagination. Whatever word you pick will be right
I ain't no expert, but I'll give it a shot.
From wikipedia - Tenets of fascism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism#Nationalism_with_or_without_expansionism
Nationalism - yes, America First, the concept of a "real" America, white, non-diverse etc. Trump effectively cultivated the idea of China as the enemy in his final year, mostly in a trade sense rather than military - plus the Kung Flu and all that. But there was never really a "one true people" inseparable from the party and leader.
Totalitarianism - no. In true fascism everything - religion, culture, sport, family life etc is all subordinate and serves the party/ideology and system. Trump never had this. This of course leads to people informing on each other for doing "non-patriotic" or subversive things, another form of surveillance and social control.
Economy - fascism rejects socialism, but fascist economies generally try to be self-sufficient, state owned for industries of national significance so have "socialist" characteristics - maybe this is where Giardiasis' friend got the "govt. health care is fascist" line. Trump didn't nationalise, gave heaps to the military, and propped up Wall Street. But not really.
Action - fascism promotes action, usually in the form of political violence. Militias and quasi-military continue the "ongoing struggle" against subversive elements. Think Hitler Youth. Maybe you can see Proud Boys and the Capitol Hill thing as proto-fascist but not really.
Age and Gender - youth are coopted into the movement. The Youth are beautiful, young, strong, vibrant, carry the movement and struggle forward. Women can participate but most importantly must produce children to keep the state strong. Trump? No.
Palingenesis/Modernism - national rebirth, re-creation. The nation must be reborn to achieve full potential. Some of this in Trump's rhetoric, certainly. Modernism - technology/science provides the means to a better society, but a totalitarian society. Old things are rejected. Humans/machines are inseparable and all work towards the unified goal
Fascist aesthetics - pain, sacrifice, suffering, struggle for the cause are emphasised in art, sport, culture, media. this centres on the Leader. Think Nazi architecture, film, the beauty of the Aryan youth etc. Trump emphasised his own suffering a lot but didn't really call on others to suffer, and wouldn't know what aesthetics were if one bit him on the arse.
So I would say Trump showed fascist tendencies, used ideology that was proto-fascist maybe. But like I always say, he has the attention span of a gnat. He couldn't really be a Hitler or Mussolini, no self-discipline, no coherent ideology. He has a knack for populist rhetoric and a certain slimy charisma and showmanship, that's undeniable. But look at his term as president - no vision. It was just rolling back Obama reforms and making a lot of noise about himself, strengthening Wall Street, grifting as much for his family as possible. He had power but didn't really know what to do with it. For him it was all about ego, all about appearance, all about how he was perceived. It was just another version of The Apprentice for him - hence his obsession with TV ratings above all other indicators.
True fascist leaders get rich, certainly, but what they are really about is the pursuit of naked power.
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Geez, great work ant! Thanks. Lots to think about. Both you and gia have forced me to search around for a word that more satisfactorily describes Trump (I had lazily settled on fascist) but couldn’t find one. Guess I’ll now settle for sociopath with fascists tendencies. Happy to be corrected though.
Just a few points. Thought Trump played the Nationalist card well. Portrayed America as a victim of global forces militarily and economically, including painting some traditional allies as transgressors; divided his own population into true Americans and those who hate America and seemed to relish like no other previous president destroying peoples’ reputations and careers if they pushed back; demanded loyalty while offering none until his final days and that came in the form of pardons; and of course never stopped sprouting American first in an appeal to his supporter base. That ticks the fascist box to me.
I agree, he wasn’t ideologically driven. His devotion was to himself entirely and everything in his orbit if he could get something from it, and not some greater philosophical cause . So not fascist.
Trump with the backing it seems of an overwhelming majority of the republican party won’t be convicted of whipping up a mob to interfere with the democratic processes. Democracy seems to be less important than winning the next election for them. This lowering of the bar perhaps invites more violent demonstrations against democracy in the future. The US is the most heavily armed developed country in the world. So the Proud Boys might just be the harbinger of more violent things to come. Fascists do not respect democracy. Tick.
Reckon he’ll be back if his prostate or double cheese burger & fries triggered bowel cancer doesn’t get him first. Trump v Harris maybe.
And then come 2029 with a population possibly even more divided than now, more partisan, more full of distrust and misunderstanding and hate, and with the bar of right and wrong set so low imagine what a smart ideologically driven malevolent candidate could achieve.
Just a few points. Thought Trump played the Nationalist card well. Portrayed America as a victim of global forces militarily and economically, including painting some traditional allies as transgressors; divided his own population into true Americans and those who hate America and seemed to relish like no other previous president destroying peoples’ reputations and careers if they pushed back; demanded loyalty while offering none until his final days and that came in the form of pardons; and of course never stopped sprouting American first in an appeal to his supporter base. That ticks the fascist box to me.
I agree, he wasn’t ideologically driven. His devotion was to himself entirely and everything in his orbit if he could get something from it, and not some greater philosophical cause . So not fascist.
Trump with the backing it seems of an overwhelming majority of the republican party won’t be convicted of whipping up a mob to interfere with the democratic processes. Democracy seems to be less important than winning the next election for them. This lowering of the bar perhaps invites more violent demonstrations against democracy in the future. The US is the most heavily armed developed country in the world. So the Proud Boys might just be the harbinger of more violent things to come. Fascists do not respect democracy. Tick.
Reckon he’ll be back if his prostate or double cheese burger & fries triggered bowel cancer doesn’t get him first. Trump v Harris maybe.
And then come 2029 with a population possibly even more divided than now, more partisan, more full of distrust and misunderstanding and hate, and with the bar of right and wrong set so low imagine what a smart ideologically driven malevolent candidate could achieve.
Just reading about GOP Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene. What a *smile* nutcase. QAnoner who also believe the school massacres in the US were false flag attacks by anti-gun activists. Video of her following and berating a survivor of the Parkland high school shooting because he's now an anti-gun activist.
What's more *smile* up than a person like that being elected? Seeing the GOP nominate her to the Education Committee. That's some seriously poor taste trolling by McCarthy
What's more *smile* up than a person like that being elected? Seeing the GOP nominate her to the Education Committee. That's some seriously poor taste trolling by McCarthy
This is exactly what their focus is. If you haven't, watch the John Oliver documentaries (they have a comedic view) on gun control in the US. They compare the US to Australia regarding gun control.
One senator when asked, whats the most important thing to do as a senator?, responds back immediately with no consideration, "to get re-elected". Nothing to do with doing the right thing for your country, it was all to do with self preservation. Disturbing.
BTW also agree that Trump isn't really a fascist, but one thing he can be compared to regarding Hitler, is the message to only get information from one source. Trumps fake news push, had a very similar purpose to Hitler burning books. The aim was to ensure that their supporters only reviewed information that supported their position, and not to read anything that might counter their viewpoint. Very different methods, but the same purpose.
Trump has never had any coherent view of the world, let alone an ideology. Too personally focussed to be a fascist.
Has some tendencies, I think I mentioned these a few pages ago, and certainly the nationalism angle fits. But even on that score, while he wanted to make America Great apparently, it was all too incoherent to be more than just a tendency.
The really fearful prospect is a far more competent version of Trump who has a more coherent view of the world and more focus.
DS
Has some tendencies, I think I mentioned these a few pages ago, and certainly the nationalism angle fits. But even on that score, while he wanted to make America Great apparently, it was all too incoherent to be more than just a tendency.
The really fearful prospect is a far more competent version of Trump who has a more coherent view of the world and more focus.
DS
in fairness to McCarthy, she may well have still been the best option the GOP have.
No, there are still some level headed GOP members of the party. For the sake of their country they need to stand up to the lunatic fringe and get rid of them.
Yeah that’s right I forgot to mention the ‘fake news’ concept and how only one source of news can be trusted. What a scary development that is. Trump really understood how to manipulate his audience. Now facts are subject to algorithms. So many people disconnected from reality. One of my nieces and her husband got sucked down the Trump rabbit hole and now they’re totally gone. Brainwash victims. Anyone know an exorcist?
Trump is really on the nose, is struggling to get impeachment defence attorneys, and 5 that he did manage to hire have left.
edition.cnn.com
First on CNN: Trump's impeachment defense team leaves less than two weeks before trial
Former President Donald Trump's five impeachment defense attorneys have left a little more than a week before his trial is set to begin, according to people familiar with the case, amid a disagreement over his legal strategy.
edition.cnn.com
good lord. As if we needed any comformation that he is a complete and total *smile*,
not even lawyers will take his money.
Let’s be fair here. You say that not even lawyers will take his money, they have probably just realised that the Oompa Loompa wasn’t going to pay them
Before they even take it, he’s actually gotta offer to pay them...
Trump has told staff not to pay Rudy Giuliani over irritation at being impeached again
President Donald Trump, irritated at being impeached for a second time, has told people to stop paying Rudy Giuliani's legal fees, a person familiar with the matter tells CNN, though aides were not clear if the President was serious about his instructions given he's lashing out at nearly...
www.google.com.au
