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IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
Coronavirus
- Thread starter Tigers of Old
- Start date
The point I was making is why are we continuing to prop up the hotel business after 12 months of this, we have had time to sort out a better alternative.
While the professor is correct that what happens inside any quarantine facility is what matters, it is a hell of a lot easier to quarantine in cabins (maybe at caravan parks which could also help regional areas) which are unlike hotels in that they don't have unventilated corridors, many hotels have unventilated rooms, the rooms are not right next to each other, the rooms don't share the same air conditioning system etc. What happens inside quarantine facilities is not unrelated to the building it is housed in.
Propping up the construction industry might be the only way if we want purpose built facilities - this would have the advantage that they are already available if we have another pandemic. Why not, do you favour propping up large multinational hotel chains over whoever owns the construction industry? I favour neither but at least if we construct such facilities they are still available for other uses later. Plus, we only prop them up for the period they are building the facility, not for as long as we need quarantine.
Andrews' style can be grating, although he does at least answer questions, well, as much as any pollie does. Like any pollie he will answer the question he wanted you to ask, not the actual question asked.
DS
Spot on.
Yet media dont harp on it enough but back off on his spin.
Why dont the media push to find out why different setups occurred. Why the govt after the crap we went through last year to rectify their mistake again not ensure uniformity at all HQ as recommended by the Inquiry. Which minister was in charge to ensure uniformity. If no minister, why not. What checks to monitor outsourced contractors. Investigate... no.. they just focused on the easy click bait story, the neubuliser. The deflection story put out by the govt, not that the contractor wasn't wearing the appropiate PPE! Only later, but by then...
Why wasnt the worker protected as recommended. I wonder if Worksafe will get involved again. Worker's life was put at risk & all other close contact. Failures from the Vic govt again.
Still haven't heard anything from Worksafe 1st investigation.
Don't have access to Australian.
"Despite a clear-cut case on hotel quarantine breaches, there are signs WorkSafe Victoria will crumble on the issue of prosecutions"
NoCookies | The Australian
Its a subscriber article, dont have access. (sorry if this has been mentioned elsewhere) - Dec article
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There is a massive lack of education about the SOE. Not to mention the lack of knowledge of the potential ramifications to Victoria if the SOE is lifted on Feb 27 due to a parliament stalemate. Some could argue the state govt hasn’t explained it well enough, but the disinformation about it has reached epic proportions thanks to the MSM and QAnon. I haven’t seen not one article in the VIC MSM that compares the SOE in VIC to the SOE in other states. Some context would be nice.
Not so long ago i would have strongly disagreed with this. But as someone who frequents a lot of the pro-Andrews Facey pages, some of the cult-like following is almost reaching Trump proportions.
True seen the same.
I remember Jenny Mikakos put out that Dan's trolls were attacking her and to leave her alone on social media. To me confirmed paid employees of the govt are out there. The deflection is extrodianary imo by avoiding the true problem and attack opposition party on deflectionary issues somewhat tied in. One example imo: The attacks on Jeff K when he comments about Dan, he gets bombarded lately about a decision of 26 yrs ago to shut down Fairfield. Ok. so what, ALP could have easily reintroduced it if it wanted too.
There is a massive pro-Dan base out there. But I see it's formation as the public's natural reaction to the News Limited hatchet job on Andrews.
Again, like in the States, News Limited has been able to drive a thick wedge into society and politicise every event.
Again, like in the States, News Limited has been able to drive a thick wedge into society and politicise every event.
Correct, if every HQ location provided Tier 3 PPE to ALL quarantine workers ie. N95, face shields or goggles and disposable gowns as per the PPE taskforce's recommendations (totally ignored by Dan Andrews and his government) then the workers wouldn't have caught it, and transmitted to the community, and a lockdown would have been avoided.
Does anyone know why Andrew completely ignored this very basic and easily actionable recommendation?
This is 100% spot on, its the unreasonable opposition which is driving the support.
Has anyone in the media raised this with Andrews in his press conferences the last couple of days? I find the questions hard to follow a lot of the time because of the inadequate sound. If not it seems like a missed opportunity to raise genuine issues rather than the bull *smile* gotcha questions that pervade the press conferences.
Agreed Al, this is the real story, why didn't Dan follow the PPE taskforce's recommendations and have every quarantine worker in Tier 3 PPE?Spot on.
Yet media dont harp on it enough but back off on his spin.
Why dont the media push to find out why different setups occurred. Why the govt after the crap we went through last year to rectify their mistake again not ensure uniformity at all HQ as recommended by the Inquiry. Which minister was in charge to ensure uniformity. If no minister, why not. What checks to monitor outsourced contractors. Investigate... no.. they just focused on the easy click bait story, the neubuliser. The deflection story put out by the govt, not that the contractor wasn't wearing the appropiate PPE! Only later, but by then...
Why wasnt the worker protected as recommended. I wonder if Worksafe will get involved again. Worker's life was put at risk & all other close contact. Failures from the Vic govt again.
Still haven't heard anything from Worksafe 1st investigation.
Don't have access to Australian.
"Despite a clear-cut case on hotel quarantine breaches, there are signs WorkSafe Victoria will crumble on the issue of prosecutions"
NoCookies | The Australian
www.theaustralian.com.au
Its a subscriber article, dont have access. (sorry if this has been mentioned elsewhere) - Dec article
Has anyone actually straight our asked Dan why he ignored such a basic recommendation which would have prevented an outbreak?
Surprised I haven't seen the replies pointing out the other states/NZ issues with quarantine. The snap lockdowns elsewhere. The challenges of quarantine. Raising odious comparisons to covid in Europe & the US. Raising the news corp hatchet job on Andrews or any other myriad of unrelated excuses.
Reality is the Vic gov't continue to botch it up despite having had ample time and expert advice on how to improve it. Dan has done things his own way in Vic and it ain't working out better for us.
That sort of question will generate a defensive, if not dismissive response though. It's a News Limited framed question. The assumption is that Dan ignored a basic simple recommendation that's caused 800 deaths. Then the Murdoch disciples will hit Twitter and Facebook calling for Dan's lynching which then generates the opposite reaction from those who can see through the News bullying.
The need for reporters to frame questions in a way that pleases their paymasters is half the problem here.
I know, right? It's irrelevant that every single local, state, national and international body has been bested by this virus at some point.
Victoria needs to always get zero cases for ever.
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Right on cue. Who said the virus isn't testing authorities? Who said Vic needs to be zero? How about responding to the issues raised in the ABC article rather than throwing up another straw man? Do you think its fair to raise the questions Nico did?
As a Melburnian, is it selfish of me to stay that I really don't give a stuff of what is happening elsewhere? I'm just trying hard to keep my business going through constant disruptions so I can provide for my family.
I only have the bandwidth to care about Victoria (I probably am being selfish).
The biggest peacetime disaster in Victoria's history occurred under Dan Andrew's watch last year. Over 800 lives were lost. One thing I do know is this number of deaths didn't occur in any other state, far from it.
You would have thought that he would have learnt from this.
A PPE taskforce was commissioned with experts in infection control on the panel.
The December advice from the taskforce said anyone in quarantine should be treated as "high risk" regardless of whether or not they had tested positive for coronavirus.
That meant the person should be treated as a tier 3 risk — the same as a confirmed case. Tier 3 PPE requires N95 masks, face shields or goggles, and disposable gowns.
But this measure was not applied at all hotel quarantine sites.
This left some members of the panel "flabbergasted". One panel member said "This would have stopped [hotel quarantine] staff getting sick and taking it into the community."
So I'll ask you Coburgtiger, do you know why Andrew completely ignored this very basic and easily actionable recommendation?
As far as I know the NT is the only jurisdiction that has not had Covid escape quarantine. The Howard Springs facility is separate cabins, I believe people can go outside, but am not sure of details.
Facilities like that do appear the obvious answer if hotel quarantine will continue to fail, and should not be too hard to establish.
Not necessarily. There will & have been outbreaks but Vic caused the biggest failures throughout the pandemic. Failed to follow what the national setup was discussed. They went on their own setup. Rid 1st security coy. Puts in a mate with 3 mill contract without due process. They in turn f'd massively with PPE & virus spread into community at levels not seen anywhere else in the country.
They boast they r the best, arrogance. The last was having 2 different setups with 1 nkt being up to std & the govt failed to check. They failed to monitor their contractors again
IF PPE was in place ( & it wasnt) and an outbreak occurred, there is no issue of failure but imo seen as a learning curve.
Thats the angle Nico & me been noting re PPE.
Problem with this sort of accomodation is that its hard to prevent people from talking or fraternizing. In hotels you have personnel watching the corridors to make sure that people don't leave rooms or talk to each other, around the clock. In this situation you'd have to have to have people outside the cabins 24 hours or alternatively lock people in cabins.
Andrews noted yesterday or the day before that he never said they were the best it was the AMA. As for 2 different setups we have reportedly taken plenty of advice from other states and ended up with similar setups, maybe its the same in say NSW and they made the decision it wasn't necessary to full implement the recommendations in non hot hotels. I'm not saying this was the right decision, I asked a few posts up whether there had been any questions asked of Andrews over it given I think it would be a far more valid line of questioning than much of what has been asked.
Or CCTV, motion sensors etc. It's not that big an ask to be able to detect if people are moving around when they shouldn't be.
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