Global Warming | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Global Warming

DavidSSS said:
I brought up the penguins because climate change is a threat and, yes, because it has been mentioned recently.

Are the scientists wrong to say Emperor Penguins are threatened by climate change?

Do you know more then those who have studied Emperor Penguins for decades?
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The application for protected status is based on future assumptions of reduced sea ice, something that is not apparent at present - refer to the chart I posted. Yes, they will be threatened if sea ice reduces dramatically. No, they are not presently threatened.

Let's return to your impending mea culpa. You stated
In particular, Emperor Penguins rely on sea ice for their breeding, and as we all know, this is disappearing:
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...followed by a video about land ice. This was a result of confusion on your part, right? You weren't being deliberately deceptive, were you?
 
Apparently the upcoming IPCC report draws heavily on a recent innovation calling itself “attribution science”, a pseudoscience if ever there was one. A bit sad that they’re resorting to this because the facts aren’t scary enough.
 
Deceptive? You can stop frothing at the mouth now.

You want deceptive, try looking at Spencer and his mates at UAH and the way they change their baseline to more recent (warmer) years to make it look like the observed change in temperature is lower than it really is. I'm still (not) wondering why you didn't give us the latest instalment of the UAH data: didn't fit your agenda.

Do you deny the Antarctic ice loss observed by NASA above?

Do you deny the threat climate change poses to Emperor Penguins? In any case, why would we believe what you speculate when scientists who have been working on this, and developing their expertise, for decades, are saying climate change is a threat. I believe those with expertise, not just access to denier websites.

We'll see what the IPCC report comes out with, the first instalment comes out on Monday which is the physical science basis for climate change. Nice of you to start sniping before the report even comes out, with some speculation about what will be in the report.

Just by the way, attribution science is not pseudo science - it is just the normal scientific enquiry into why things happen. You know, like when we observe increasing temperatures we try and work out why this is happening. Are you of the view that science should not try to find the reasons for observed phenomena?

DS
 
David, did you make a mistake attempting to support a claim about sea ice with a video about land ice? Or were you setting up a strawman as a means to attack me, again?

Please be honest, just this one time. Come on Dave, you can do it.
 
Attribution “science” is a legislative construct recently invented to make money out of climate change in the courtroom. Not very successful to date because it hasn’t been substantiated to a legal standard. It is modern day hoochie-cooch snake oil.

It’s not speculation either, David. The IPCC report has an entire chapter devoted to it. You can read about it in The Age.
 
Well, how do you attribute the record high temperatures we've seen this year, a La Nina year, which has not been particularly hot by the standards we seem to be getting used to (unlikely to make the top 5, will "only" be a top 10 year for average temperature by the look of it)?

Here's a little map of the record high temps for 2021 to mid July:

Areas-where-new-all-time-high-temperature-records-have-been-set-in-2021-to-date.jpg

Seeking to find out the cause of observed phenomena is basic to science, I don't really care if some lawyers or legislators want to call it attribution science or whatever, explaining why something happens, or attributing it to a cause, is basic science.

DS
 
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David, stop trying to escape please.

Did you make a mistake attempting to support a claim about sea ice with a video about land ice? Or were you setting up a strawman as a means to attack me?
 
DavidSSS said:
Seeking to find out the cause of observed phenomena is basic to science, I don't really care if some lawyers or legislators want to call it attribution science or whatever, explaining why something happens, or attributing it to a cause, is basic science.
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It is fraud, David. FRAUD. skepticalscience.com doesn't fly in a court setting when you need to PROVE your case.

Do some reading about how "attribution science" is failing monumentally in the courtroom. It ain't even original science, it's activism with the goal of stealing money.

This pseudoscientific crap is an insult to genuine scientists and needs to be arseholed.
 
Extreme temperatures kill 5 million a year: 20-year study

The study found that extreme heat and cold killed 5.08 million people on an average every year from 2000-2019. Of this, 4.6 million deaths on an average occurred annually due to extreme cold while 0.48 million deaths occurred due to extreme heat. This means close to nine out of every ten deaths in the world in this period were due to cold temperatures.
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Lee, you have no conception of how much contempt I have for the legal system, I couldn't care less whether something stands up in court or not. This is not a legal issue, it will not be solved in court rooms.

I can see you are trying to win some sort of "gotcha" moment, which is just more pathetic sniping from you. I don't expect anything else really, it is all you have in the face of overwhelming evidence not only of the human causes of climate change, but also of the impact of climate change. I know you like this to be about you, but it simply isn't. It's not about you, it's not about me it is about the environment and how human activity is changing the climate and how this is having a detrimental impact on humans, on many animal species, etc.

This topic is about how humans are damaging the only planet we have to live on.

DS
 
David, you posted a claim and backed it with an unrelated video. Then attacked me when I focused on the statement.

Any reasonable person would concede they made a mistake and retract, but you've proved beyond doubt that you're too arrogant to make any concession whatsoever. You're too obsessed with the narrative for your own good. Your footy posts are good but I wish I could put you on Ignore in this thread.

Attribution science is a legal construct, by admission of its very inventor. It has no place in the IPCC report. But your stance is that anything that supports the narrative is OK.

no concession
no confession
much digression
green obsession
 
DavidSSS said:
Well, how do you attribute the record high temperatures we've seen this year, a La Nina year, which has not been particularly hot by the standards we seem to be getting used to (unlikely to make the top 5, will "only" be a top 10 year for average temperature by the look of it)?

Here's a little map of the record high temps for 2021 to mid July:

View attachment 13010

Seeking to find out the cause of observed phenomena is basic to science, I don't really care if some lawyers or legislators want to call it attribution science or whatever, explaining why something happens, or attributing it to a cause, is basic science.

DS
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Southern Canada and NW states of US which are always cold?
 
TigerForce said:
Southern Canada and NW states of US which are always cold?
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Not sure what you are asking here, but the temperatures in NW USA and SW Canada were astounding this year. Records beaten by 5C. Plus the Canadian all time temperature record was exceeded in a different region to the old record. They recorded 50C in British Colombia in Canada, temperatures were exceeding the average by 20C. There are always outliers in a heat wave but it was the extent of the heat, way above what you would expect even in an extreme situation, which was truly astounding. To beat record temperatures by 5C in a region where record keeping would go back likely 100 years is just ridiculous.

There were specific conditions which led to this, but, I have read analysis saying this sort of heat is virtually impossible without climate change.

DS
 
DavidSSS said:
Not sure what you are asking here, but the temperatures in NW USA and SW Canada were astounding this year. Records beaten by 5C. Plus the Canadian all time temperature record was exceeded in a different region to the old record. They recorded 50C in British Colombia in Canada, temperatures were exceeding the average by 20C. There are always outliers in a heat wave but it was the extent of the heat, way above what you would expect even in an extreme situation, which was truly astounding. To beat record temperatures by 5C in a region where record keeping would go back likely 100 years is just ridiculous.

There were specific conditions which led to this, but, I have read analysis saying this sort of heat is virtually impossible without climate change.
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Posted previously, posting again for reinforecement.

No scientific consensus on whether warming Arctic may lead to more extreme weather

Late last month in Canada, a horseshoe-shaped high-pressure system called an Omega Block saw heat build up for days, leading to off-the-chart temperatures. In Europe last week, a cut-off low pressure system stalled over Germany, dumping a month's worth of rain in a day.
...
"It's an area of very active research, there are quite a few people around the world looking into this. And there is a diversity of views among scientists. At the very least, I think we can say that we don't have a great deal of confidence that this is a clear effect of climate change.
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DavidSSS said:
Not sure what you are asking here, but the temperatures in NW USA and SW Canada were astounding this year. Records beaten by 5C. Plus the Canadian all time temperature record was exceeded in a different region to the old record. They recorded 50C in British Colombia in Canada, temperatures were exceeding the average by 20C. There are always outliers in a heat wave but it was the extent of the heat, way above what you would expect even in an extreme situation, which was truly astounding. To beat record temperatures by 5C in a region where record keeping would go back likely 100 years is just ridiculous.

There were specific conditions which led to this, but, I have read analysis saying this sort of heat is virtually impossible without climate change.

DS
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Just amazed it happened in those spots.
 
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