You need to re-read the thread, the Ivermectin miracle in UP has been comprehensively debunked already @frickenel
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IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
Carltony
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You need to re-read the thread, the Ivermectin miracle in UP has been comprehensively debunked already @frickenel
Fact? As much fact as you're using to claim elite athlete ICU rates have little to do with vaccination rates.
What about the children? Your statement was that elite athletes don't need to be vaccinated and that transmission amongst vaccinated people is high. You're asking me for facts now. Where are yours to support your statements?
I'm really sorry to hear about your condition, @frickenel. I hope it's unrelated to your jabs, but I guess you could well be one of the few unlucky ones to suffer a serious side effect. Get well soon.
However, I am just as worried about the rabbit hole you appear to have gone down ... although I sympathise over that, too. I imagine your own experience has played a big part in searching for answers beyond the mainstream media.
Just be sure your facts stack up and you continue to look at the peer reviewed research and widely endorsed data. There are plenty of troublemakers out there leveraging people's natural anxieties and lack of trust. Stay above it.
The key fact here is that Liam Jones is a *smile* wit. Can we now take the COVID debate to the appropriate board?
So you can't back your claim. That's ok.
Cases in the mostly vaccinated countries like UK and in West Europe are still high. The good news is that hospitalisation and deaths are down which is a good result for the vax but transmission is still significant.
You still have freedom of choice. And freedom of speech. No one is stopping vax refusal. You can still question the vaccines. You can choose not to take them. You can call anyone taking them a sheeple and the like.
But like all choices, there are repercussions of choice. I run a business and I should be free to choose not to have anyone unvaccinated on site. When a staff member questions the safety of the vaccines because of something he read on facebook I can choose to question the veracity of the info he is spruking.
They are high, so transmission still exists (we knew that), but is transmission down from when we were locked down? Bearing in mind that the UK were in lockdown last year when they had their major outbreak and were getting 50-60k cases per day, they are now at lower than that despite being largely open and operating almost as if Covid didn't exist.
I would suggest that it shows a correlation that vaccination REDUCES transmission which is what you are arguing against.
How many elite athletes are there in Aust?
Waht % of the population is that?
How many people in Australia have had covid?
What are the chances an elite athlete has had covid?
Sweet FA?
the whole world is in a massive dilema with thisI'm double vax'd as of Tuesday last week.
I had my first shot 12 weeks earlier (Astrazenica) and within 2 hours was reporting to emergency with breathing issues (not as symptom of Astrazenica).
I'm a fit person, a bloody fit person. I've always been aboe to run 15k's at 4 minute k pace, even without having run for extended periods of time. When we were playing other forums in footy games, a lot of comments were posted on here about my physique. My build today was literally identical (6ft 2 and 94kg, 32 inch waist). I'm now 84kf, 10kg down in 12 weeks. but even now, 12 weeks after that first shot, i can't do anything physical without gassing out. How long this will last i'm not sure.
Basically, within 2 hours, i noticed a reduced capacity in my left lung. Right side seemd ok. It wasn't overly distressing, but any physical labor and i am getting light headed and neding to go to my knees for oxygen.
To say i was aprehensive about the second shot is an understatement.
I was due for the second shot 6 weeks later, but put it off for as long as i could whilst i had tests done, chest x-rays, bloods icg etc.
When i returned to my doctor he said "I'm going to print these result out for you because the results are off the charts" and went on to say it's like my results were mixed up with those of a 20 yr old athlete. It wasn't really what i wanted to hear. I was lke "If things are that good, why can't i raise a gallop now"?
Anyway, with much trepidation i went and had the second shot last Tuesday. I didn't notice my breathing get any worse than it already was. I had the shot at 10am. By 4pm i noticed tightness in my shoulders and neck. By 6pm i had a thumping headache. As i type this now, the headache is still there. Yesterday i consulted Virtual ED and over video conference went over the symptoms. In the back of my mind was clotting, but i felt that was unlikely as the area bulging up in my neck isn't extremely warm and it came on too quickly to really be clotting. The person on the other end of the conference suspects a gland in my neck has swollen and hit a nerve, causing the neck muscle to bunch up and cause the headaches. She suggested just to make sure, that i go to emergency. I basically aid "F... that", and have made an appointment with my ormal GP. At least i can trust that he is thorough.
I also have a client who is an AFLW player. One of her team mates canot train after taking Astrazeneca........ same symptoms as me, cannot raise a gallop without blowing up. So how i'm being told it's not a symptom is beyond me, i mean my social circles aren't that large and i know of one other already.
Interestingly when i had the ICG done, the nurse performing the test told me she'd already had 4 females present just that morning with abnormal heart rythm. This was literally before 11am. I know this issue mainly affects yoinger males, so i was surprised to hear that.
My brotrher in laws brothers son has been in hospital for over 5 weeks in a real bad way from Pfizer. I suspect he gets into steroids a bit so i wonder if there may have been a reaction because of that. I try to be balanced on this subject, but anyone who thinks the the $$$ from big Pharma are not controlling the narrative here are kidding themselves. Shareholders in these companies are rocketing up the world's richest lists as we speak.
The idea that we need to inject children with this is beyond a joke. Likewise, the idea that people who have recovered from Covid need to be vaccinated is equally laughable. Studies in Isreal and now elsewhere are showing natural immunity to be far higher than that of the vaccines. It just seems like the more arms the bigger the dollar signs.
They have a bit of history with kids too:
More food for thought re the bureaucrats who think they can run our lives better than we can ourselves:
do little or be too slow to act and you end up like UK & USA
massive infection rates , world leading death numbers and is you get to hear programs from BBC or NPR
you hear stories of people , mid 40's and under no known underlying health issues spending months in hospital
finally leaving but are only a shell of their former selves and it isn't known how they will recovery in the long term
and the frustrating bit is the random way it affects people
the governments are largely taking advice from the medical profession
the medical profession are pretty much trained to save as many lives as they can
and the only tools at their disposal have pretty much been lockdowns and vaccination
and they have pretty much had their way in Australia & NZ
our deaths are low , relative to northern hemisphere countries , and mostly in very frail elderly , often people in end life care
our infection rates have been super low compared to the world stage and so to those horror stories of people being badly affected by covid
the cost
the personal freedoms , financial impacts , mental health
and the effects of the vaccine as you've described
health episodes
as at the end of May this year TGA reported 32 33 ? people had experienced blood clots as a result of covid vaccination , another 8 that had blood clots were under investigation , I think I saw figures at the time that approx 40 people per day experience blood clots in Aus so separating them from vaccination is a bit of a task as at the time many of those 40 per day would have not long had their 1st jab
Also at that time I was doing data entry for Dept. Health into the WHO portal on all things covid and in the box "Severe adverse reaction " the number "I typed was over 32,000 !!! that dat is in the public arena and Craig Kelly has got it and sent out SMS to people trying drum up support for his new party
I asked questions of a few people what makes up "Severe adverse reaction " ? No one could tell me , but I did find a break down in a TGA publication
the biggest one was soreness or swelling in injection site - yep sore arm , severe , come on
next was slight headache or fever
so the figures of interest , like yourself and others described , have been swamped , ug , unfortunate , my hope is that within the TGA they do have the break downs that would target genuinely severe reactions and are feeding that information to ATAGI
my daughter has heart issues and it was expected she would have issues but was advised better to get the jab
she did get one of myo or peri carditis and needed a week of bed rest after jab 2
by coinicednce she is working in a Covid task force now and is as busy as
then also by chance a daughter in law who is nursing covid patients and has incubated a couple for ventilation
the gravity of the whole covid thing has left its mark on her , he fear is although double vaxd she could catch it and without knowing
pass it onto her parents , in their late 60's
I would say take comfort that ATAGI do seem to be thorough and they aren't rushing into the under 12 vaccination thing ,
there are people working behind the scenes , monitoring and gathering data and from discussions with daughter and daughter in law
our medical profession is all over the data coming out of Israel , Europe etc
yes the whole thing gets caught up in politics and our pollies and high ranking health officials are getting pulled and pushed in every direction
the FDA in the US are faced with a different scenario , their infection rates are so much higher and their vaccination rates will always be lower than ours for a whole bunch or reasons the numbers
Seemingly less affected by politics around vaccination is Israel and their push for a booster jab , and work with antivirals is very interesting .
They report both as being very succesful , but its early days
Lastly , big drug companies , and just talking vaccines, I don't believe they have done anything dodgy in this case . Covid is like pennies from heaven that has just fallen in their laps .
When striking a deal with a government there wouldnt be any hard sell required , they could drop the line "you're doing a good thing for your country " and smile as the government official begs for supplies .
Flu and all childhood vaccination rates are up also, no selling effort required by the companies , they just need bigger computers to count the profit. I also had to use lots of procurement data in my reports and never got suspicous of any thing.
now how governments react to "best medical advice" we could spend months talking about it , whoops , we have
last but not least I hope you and brother in law come out of this ok
I reckon lamb needs to tone down the insults. He's made some good points and posted plenty of interesting stuff but lets himself down the the ridicule he dishes out.
It's definitely the biggest issue I've ever seen split society. And one of the only ones that's united people from the extreme left and right of the political spectrum.
Anyway, back on topic, lets hope the blues collect another wooden spoon in 2022.
And isn't that the key? Hospitalisations and deaths reduced, and a health system able to deal with other severe illnesses etc?
And people being able to make the choices to get on with their lives, such as choosing to go back to community sport or choosing to go on a holiday?
Isn't it simply about risk - risk of negative responses to vaccination as against risk of negative response to covid? I chose to get vaxxed because I assessed I had more risk as an unvaccinated person. But I would accept if I wasn't vaccinated I might be restricted from stuff.
I am not for compulsory vaccination but I also accept governments need to make these huge public health decisions in the best interests of the majority.
If you wind back to where I made my post Jazzy,you would see it relates to question asked around we live in a democratic society giving us the freedoms such as choice and speechWhether I agree,or disagree with someone's ideals etc is immaterial.But I will fight tooth and nail for that person's right to air his views.Anything else becomes zealotry and one thing for sure we have plenty of that in human history.
so she is 100% protected? so if everyone was vaccinated Covid would cease?
or does getting vaccinated reduce the chance of transmission? So if both she and Jones were vaccinated the chance he could give it to her would be reduced?
in Australia both Victoria and NSW had climbing case numbers. more and more people got vaccinated. numbers steadied and dropped. restrictions were significantly eased, and numbers have continued to drop. could be a coincidence i suppose.
would you defend "tooth and nail" a persons right to yell racist abuse at the footy? or does "free speech" only go so far?
