Trust | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Trust

Artificially constraining supply / price fixing is borderline illegal depending on the situation with massive fines and potential jail time.


AFL treats it fans as vehicles to monetise vs long term advocates and the grass roots of the sport. Will reap what it sows.

Must be some key metrics missing or getting gamed at the top.

I used to passionately try and convert every non AFL supporter into a Richmond one. Taken lots of yanks to the g. No way I would do that now. When this happens in 1000s of different ways E.g. a parent choosing Auskick or another sport it will massively hurt the sport in a decade.
This applies to the soft cap too, clubs are being prevented from doing what's best for them, and what has worked for them in the past.

Get rid of the soft cap farce, get the ACCC on board.
 
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Couple of things for context.

I joined as a member in 1989 as a 19 year old. I've seen it all—the good times and the bad. I've seen us get buried at Kardinia Park, the Western Oval, VFL Park and everywhere in between. I was there when Geelong started their run in 2007 (and stayed until the bitter end); I attended the so-called Mothers' Day Massacre; I watched North and the Blues overrun us in elimination finals we should never have lost; I saw, first hand, Ablett Snr, Dunstall and Lockett tear us apart; I was there when we won the whole darn thing in 2017 and 2019; before that, the second semi final in 1995 was my greatest day at the footy.

I went to a handful of games last season, more out of habit I think. I had an epiphany at the St Kilda game, which was a horrible night at the footy. It was cold, the useless ticketing had people sitting next to each other as the community was still trying to socially distance, and the footy was awful.

Perhaps I feel I've done my bit? Dunno. Never thought things would turn out this way.

The trust thing is my best effort at explaining what is probably a confluence of problematic events.

But my frustration around trust is that it's totally controllable ... if our players and coaches choose to own the problem.
I don't look at it like that. We're in transition, I think we've done well this year. I view the blown lead games, except the Geelong game which was its own thing and we were shafted on multiple levels, just as losses. We were on top, then they got on top, we lost, it happens. Do you look at comeback wins in the opposite way? Its unrealistic to expect us to win every game we get a lead in, especially when we are in transition.

At a broader level, I think you might be experiencing changes in expectations, success hangover, natural barracker cycles.

I have a theory, I've put it on here before, clubs supporters go through various stages in a cycle:

King of the mountain. (for us, late 60s early 80s)

Decline, (83- 84, it was fast)

cellar dwelling (84 - 2011)

Ascent, building (2012 - 2017)

King of the mountain. (2017 - 2020, and onwards IMO)

Different supporters can react differently but there are broad trends, and cycles within each stage depending on how long it lasts.

For me, us, we were kings 70s and very early 80s. We went to the footy expecting to win, to dominate.

then the decline was rapid, we were in denial and didn't realise how deep seated the fall was, we kept going for another couple of years.

Then it sank in, a lot of us dropped off, I lived in Ballarat, only ever went to home games, plus a few away. Then 85 to 92 I dropped off to maybe 6 or 7 games a year, often at the instigation of an opposition team supporting mate when we played them. The crowds were smaller, but more intense, 10-15K tigers could lift the roof if we played well.

Then we started to come back to games. We were still down but the crowds grew, It was as if our expectations went expecting to win or dominate to wanting to see us have a crack, compete, improve.

Then we have been in our current success phase for 10 years, take out 2016, we have won a lot of games every year. Now we are back to expecting to dominate, which took a while to happen.

I've seen this happen with us, Carlton, Essendon. Particularly in the cellar dwelling phase, the supporters drop off for a few years, then they come back even though they are still a bottom side.

I don't get the trust thing, you don't trust us because we aren't as good and lose more games?
 
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Like you I was at the mcg the night was lost to Brisbane to get the wooden spoon in 89.

That was 1987. we played Brisbane for the wooden spoon on a Friday night at the MCG in R22 and got pumped by 10 goals.

in 1989 we played Brisbane at the G mid-year. Shocking wet day. They scored 3 goals in like the first 10-15 minutes and they didn’t score another goal for the rest of the game. we won by about 20 points.
 
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I got a call from the club around two weeks ago.

"Mate, you're a longstanding member, but we notice you haven't attended a game this year. What's up?"

I've been considering making this post since I got that call. Now is the right time.

There are some aspects to the way our boys play that *smile* me to tears.

I hate the unnecessary 50m penalties given away through petulant behaviour (looking at you, Shai).

I hate the often-lopsided free kick count that generally occurs because we think we can play the game on our own terms.

I hate the ridiculous brain farts that result in stupid suspensions (hello Nicky V).

I hate the inability to close out games and protect match-winning leads (Carlton R1, Sydney R11, Geelong R13).

And, yes, the AFL plays its part with boneheaded 50m penalty interpretations, stupid ticketing stipulations, tribunal inconsistency and non-sensical rule changes.

I was chatting to a neighbour of mine today, a dyed-in-the-wool Tiger like me. He also hasn't attended a game this year. I told him I would never have missed a game like yesterday's (day time, MCG, good weather) in previous years.

We agreed that watching Richmond in 2022 is a very frustrating experience.

Trust is hard won but easily lost.

I don't like feeling this way.
So you don’t trust a team that won 3 flags in 4 years so recently?
You and you’re mate aren’t died in the wool supporters, you might think you are, but you’re not.
There’s nothing wrong with that. Everyone has as much of an interest as they want to have. Couldn’t care less. But don’t try and tell me you’re a heart and soul Richmond supporter when you “lose trust”, whatever the *smile* that means cos we give away a few frees after unbelievable success.
 
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I wonder whether the Ten network has cottoned on to the general malaise around going to the footy and decided the bid will be a good money earner.
 
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I got a call from the club around two weeks ago.

"Mate, you're a longstanding member, but we notice you haven't attended a game this year. What's up?"

I've been considering making this post since I got that call. Now is the right time.

There are some aspects to the way our boys play that *smile* me to tears.

I hate the unnecessary 50m penalties given away through petulant behaviour (looking at you, Shai).

I hate the often-lopsided free kick count that generally occurs because we think we can play the game on our own terms.

I hate the ridiculous brain farts that result in stupid suspensions (hello Nicky V).

I hate the inability to close out games and protect match-winning leads (Carlton R1, Sydney R11, Geelong R13).

And, yes, the AFL plays its part with boneheaded 50m penalty interpretations, stupid ticketing stipulations, tribunal inconsistency and non-sensical rule changes.

I was chatting to a neighbour of mine today, a dyed-in-the-wool Tiger like me. He also hasn't attended a game this year. I told him I would never have missed a game like yesterday's (day time, MCG, good weather) in previous years.

We agreed that watching Richmond in 2022 is a very frustrating experience.

Trust is hard won but easily lost.

I don't like feeling this way.
I haven't attended a game this year either.
But, jeez I wish I could catch up with some of my Ukrainian mates and attend together.
First world order issues related to the AFL notwithstanding!!!
 
So you don’t trust a team that won 3 flags in 4 years so recently?
You and you’re mate aren’t died in the wool supporters, you might think you are, but you’re not.
There’s nothing wrong with that. Everyone has as much of an interest as they want to have. Couldn’t care less. But don’t try and tell me you’re a heart and soul Richmond supporter when you “lose trust”, whatever the *smile* that means cos we give away a few frees after unbelievable success.
No need to shoot the messenger, mate.

What I feel is what I feel. The facts are there to support my contention.

If you can trust Richmond in 2022, you're a legend.
 
So you don’t trust a team that won 3 flags in 4 years so recently?
You and you’re mate aren’t died in the wool supporters, you might think you are, but you’re not.
There’s nothing wrong with that. Everyone has as much of an interest as they want to have. Couldn’t care less. But don’t try and tell me you’re a heart and soul Richmond supporter when you “lose trust”, whatever the *smile* that means cos we give away a few frees after unbelievable success.
Died in the wool… ???

Dyed in the wool…. definitely not!
 
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I'm not going this week. Haven't missed a QLD game since I arrived up here, but I just can't be arsed this week. Hate Metricon, hate the vibe there, and even though GC have improved, they still play cookie cutter 2022 footy. Except for Rankine who I'd like to see. But no Dusty.... yeah, I'm passing.
 
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I don't get the trust thing, you don't trust us because we aren't as good and lose more games?
Interesting ideas, snake.

Probably a good analysis of the ebb and flow of supporter commitment over the success cycle.

To your question above, what I don't trust is our ability to play smart.

To avoid dumb suspensions.

To not give away stupid 50m penalties.

To win as many free kicks as we give away.

As Hardwick said on 360 last night, these issues cost us games.
 
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That was 1987. we played Brisbane for the wooden spoon on a Friday night at the MCG in R22 and got pumped by 10 goals.

in 1989 we played Brisbane at the G mid-year. Shocking wet day. They scored 3 goals in like the first 10-15 minutes and they didn’t score another goal for the rest of the game. we won by about 20 points.
Was the last game of the 89 season against Sydney at the SCG when Michael Mitchell won goal of the year??
 
The moment I lost interest was when the players carried on about how hard done by they were during the Covid pay dispute while thousands were losing their livelihoods. Jack Riewoldt was one who was bleating about it. I can't remember exactly what he said but it was something about putting their bodies on the line at a time when aged care workers and health care workers were literally doing that for a tishload less than what the players were being asked to. I just got over them all - got tired of being part of the bank that supports their narcissism. Once I was already annoyed, then the other thinkgs like rule changes etc started to annoy me as well. I used to have a reserved seat. Hell I used to pay the $75 grand final guaranteed ticket levy when the only guarantee was that we wouldn't be playing in it. Now I have a 3 game membership that I didn't use last year, probably won't use this year (thought about it on Sunday but couldn't be bothered figuring out the digital ticket) and I'm questioning whether the years of consecutive membership is worth the $80 I'm paying for it. I still watch the games but I haven't been to one since the 2019 season. And if I miss one, it's not the end of the world.
 
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The moment I lost interest was when the players carried on about how hard done by they were during the Covid pay dispute while thousands were losing their livelihoods. Jack Riewoldt was one who was bleating about it. I can't remember exactly what he said but it was something about putting their bodies on the line at a time when aged care workers and health care workers were literally doing that for a tishload less than what the players were being asked to. I just got over them all - got tired of being part of the bank that supports their narcissism. Once I was already annoyed, then the other thinkgs like rule changes etc started to annoy me as well. I used to have a reserved seat. Hell I used to pay the $75 grand final guaranteed ticket levy when the only guarantee was that we wouldn't be playing in it. Now I have a 3 game membership that I didn't use last year, probably won't use this year (thought about it on Sunday but couldn't be bothered figuring out the digital ticket) and I'm questioning whether the years of consecutive membership is worth the $80 I'm paying for it. I still watch the games but I haven't been to one since the 2019 season. And if I miss one, it's not the end of the world.
And no one should criticise that viewpoint.
 
The moment I lost interest was when the players carried on about how hard done by they were during the Covid pay dispute while thousands were losing their livelihoods. Jack Riewoldt was one who was bleating about it. I can't remember exactly what he said but it was something about putting their bodies on the line at a time when aged care workers and health care workers were literally doing that for a tishload less than what the players were being asked to. I just got over them all - got tired of being part of the bank that supports their narcissism. Once I was already annoyed, then the other thinkgs like rule changes etc started to annoy me as well. I used to have a reserved seat. Hell I used to pay the $75 grand final guaranteed ticket levy when the only guarantee was that we wouldn't be playing in it. Now I have a 3 game membership that I didn't use last year, probably won't use this year (thought about it on Sunday but couldn't be bothered figuring out the digital ticket) and I'm questioning whether the years of consecutive membership is worth the $80 I'm paying for it. I still watch the games but I haven't been to one since the 2019 season. And if I miss one, it's not the end of the world.
We do think alike, TT! Same membership story too!
It has always grated on me that our AFL players feel so incredibly entitled. Being so widely applauded for taking a great mark or kicking a miraculous goal has to have an impact on a person's psyche. For many, the debt to their club is not acknowledged.
Membership drives are gimme gimme gimme and the punters keep giving.
Over the next few years, club loyalty and afl loyalty may well be tested like never before with pressure on family finances. I'm not sure about trust, but the relationship between the club and supporters has been strained by every petulant act.
It's not just a Richmond thing.
One thing I have noticed is that with so many teams nowadays and so many anonymous Noname players involved at the highest level, the passion is petering out. Back in the days of VFL and 12 teams, we knew all the opposing players. It is hard to get fired up about cookie-cutter players and teams, especially when they try your patience. I can't be bothered but I reckon I could list about 50 currently listed players who have played an AFL game that few could place in a team.
So the talent pool is spread too thinly and the excitement in our once great game dwindles accordingly.
And the AFL Solution....19th team.
 
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I got a call from the club around two weeks ago.

"Mate, you're a longstanding member, but we notice you haven't attended a game this year. What's up?"

I've been considering making this post since I got that call. Now is the right time.

There are some aspects to the way our boys play that *smile* me to tears.

I hate the unnecessary 50m penalties given away through petulant behaviour (looking at you, Shai).

I hate the often-lopsided free kick count that generally occurs because we think we can play the game on our own terms.

I hate the ridiculous brain farts that result in stupid suspensions (hello Nicky V).

I hate the inability to close out games and protect match-winning leads (Carlton R1, Sydney R11, Geelong R13).

And, yes, the AFL plays its part with boneheaded 50m penalty interpretations, stupid ticketing stipulations, tribunal inconsistency and non-sensical rule changes.

I was chatting to a neighbour of mine today, a dyed-in-the-wool Tiger like me. He also hasn't attended a game this year. I told him I would never have missed a game like yesterday's (day time, MCG, good weather) in previous years.

We agreed that watching Richmond in 2022 is a very frustrating experience.

Trust is hard won but easily lost.

I don't like feeling this way.
Got us 3 flags why change our way/mindset?
Playing on the edge is a positive.
Otherwise you can call us North.
 
Got us 3 flags why change our way/mindset?
Playing on the edge is a positive.
Otherwise you can call us North.
Nah. The minute you stop demanding excellence is when you turn into North.

The landscape has changed since we won flags. Protected zones more rigorously enforced. Stand on the mark. 50m for whinging when you give away obvious free kicks.

Hardwick knows the jig is up, thankfully. Better late than never.
 
Nah. The minute you stop demanding excellence is when you turn into North.

The landscape has changed since we won flags. Protected zones more rigorously enforced. Stand on the mark. 50m for whinging when you give away obvious free kicks.

Hardwick knows the jig is up, thankfully. Better late than never.
All the above you mentioned is just comical stuff made up by 1 minute heroes to make a name for themselves patting themselves on the back saying we changed this game for the better.(yet they still haven't killed us off.Think we're the only side capable of beating the Dees on GF day imo.)
The essence of being successful is still the same.
Its ironic you named it Trust.
Trust in your team mates goes along way.
Timid and you die.