Welcome to Tigerland - Tim Taranto

[TigerMasochist]

but if Nank provides a similar return to his 2018 & 2019 campaigns then there will be a clear requirement for someone of Soldo's ability.

In 2018 / 19 what was actually the level of Soldo's ability?? He'd have been virtually that same age as Delilah will be next season and was cat B rookied as someone who'd never played the game. Delilah at least has been playing the game growing up n his capabilities as a 21 year old this year are far advanced on what Soldo's were in 18 / 19.

 

[bullus_hit]

I really dont get the risk though !

We are trading for 2 quality mids that are inside bulls with 100+ games and 7-8 years of football ahead of them compared to
2 kids picked between 13-20 and 1 kid 21-23. If we get 1 kid out of the 3 the quality of taranto we would take that and he would take 3-4 years to get to the required level and most likely off very little the next 2-3 years whilst developing.

Regarding relying on best 22 again i feel Hopper is a more dangerous and ready player that was injured last year but came back and with a 2 month rest and a proper pre season will be well and truly over his knee issue and both Prestia & Lynch were further back when acquired the club would have been all over this before offering up a 7 year deal if thats the case.

Nank has been a very durable Ruckman apart from the syndesmosis he had in 2020 and the knee last year but maybe its me and my thoughts on Rucks but i dont see either of Nank or Soldo as being elite Ruckman like a Grundy , Gawn or Goldstein/Cox/Sandi etc of the past and dont think we will lose that much if he is out for 4-6 weeks in a year and have reasonable backup for short stints with Miller/Ryan who are no longer kids and have ready made bodies and its a big difference when our 2nd ruck was grigg but if we need insurance then we get a cheap lug to be that battering ram from lower ranks

But im confident our new found strong midfield depth will see us through even if Nank went down and wont be the first time a clubs mids have had to play to the oppositions Ruckman but we also have extra help in Balta , Miler .

But Im still in favour of getting your Boy Max and Harry if we end up with the suitable picks which would give us some under growth

It all comes down to how you view our chances of a top 4 finish I suppose, it's not yet a guarantee but more of an assumption. The worst case scenario is we lose a top 10 pick, miss out on an AFL quality key forward & struggle to find a decent back-up ruck. If there's more to dole out then there could feasibly be 4 avenues of buyer's remorse. I think there's definite potential for this trade to implode.

 

[TigerPort]

It all comes down to how you view our chances of a top 4 finish I suppose, it's not yet a guarantee but more of an assumption. The worst case scenario is we lose a top 10 pick, miss out on an AFL quality key forward & struggle to find a decent back-up ruck. If there's more to dole out then there could feasibly be 4 avenues of buyer's remorse. I think there's definite potential for this trade to implode.

And just as much potential for the trades to explode....

 

[achillesjones]

It all comes down to how you view our chances of a top 4 finish I suppose, it's not yet a guarantee but more of an assumption. The worst case scenario is we lose a top 10 pick, miss out on an AFL quality key forward & struggle to find a decent back-up ruck. If there's more to dole out then there could feasibly be 4 avenues of buyer's remorse. I think there's definite potential for this trade to implode.

Yep. I don't think we have another Prestia/Nank/Caddy moment here. Hope to hell I'm wrong.

 

[bullus_hit]

In 2018 / 19 what was actually the level of Soldo's ability?? He'd have been virtually that same age as Delilah will be next season and was cat B rookied as someone who'd never played the game. Delilah at least has been playing the game growing up n his capabilities as a 21 year old this year are far advanced on what Soldo's were in 18 / 19.

10 disposals, 25 hit outs, half a goal a game, that's probably the barometer for a replacement.

 

[bullus_hit]

And just as much potential for the trades to explode....

Sure, there's the upside, a charmed run on the injury front could mask the lack of depth, that is also possible, but I also think there needs to be some acknowledgment that a similar season to 2021 could have some nasty residue.

 

[mrposhman]

I really dont get the risk though !

We are trading for 2 quality mids that are inside bulls with 100+ games and 7-8 years of football ahead of them compared to
2 kids picked between 13-20 and 1 kid 21-23. If we get 1 kid out of the 3 the quality of taranto we would take that and he would take 3-4 years to get to the required level and most likely off very little the next 2-3 years whilst developing.

Regarding relying on best 22 again i feel Hopper is a more dangerous and ready player that was injured last year but came back and with a 2 month rest and a proper pre season will be well and truly over his knee issue and both Prestia & Lynch were further back when acquired the club would have been all over this before offering up a 7 year deal if thats the case.

Nank has been a very durable Ruckman apart from the syndesmosis he had in 2020 and the knee last year but maybe its me and my thoughts on Rucks but i dont see either of Nank or Soldo as being elite Ruckman like a Grundy , Gawn or Goldstein/Cox/Sandi etc of the past and dont think we will lose that much if he is out for 4-6 weeks in a year and have reasonable backup for short stints with Miller/Ryan who are no longer kids and have ready made bodies and its a big difference when our 2nd ruck was grigg but if we need insurance then we get a cheap lug to be that battering ram from lower ranks

But im confident our new found strong midfield depth will see us through even if Nank went down and wont be the first time a clubs mids have had to play to the oppositions Ruckman but we also have extra help in Balta , Miler .

But Im still in favour of getting your Boy Max and Harry if we end up with the suitable picks which would give us some under growth

Whatever move you make there is elements of risk. I'm with you on this, this is actually the lowest risk approach we can take. We address our best 22 deficiency (midfield), at a cost of draft picks (that likely won't affect our fortunes over the next 2 years which is when most of our dream team from our premierships will be finished) and our ruck backup.

Sure it creates risk around that ruck backup, but makes us a lot stronger in our best 22.

We either needed to take the risk on the draft (and that our current best - maybe with Taranto) but with backup options was enough to potentially win another flag.
Or go all in, like we have on the midfield, potentially creating a risk in our list within our rucks.

I'm comfortable that we are going down the right risk, to me it seems like the lowest risk approach. We do need to address our tall stocks, particularly forward, but we have time to be able to do this.

We also aren't out of the draft next year (some are saying that we are out of the draft next year, but we are only out of the 1st round) and we don't know what our draft hand will be this year.

 

[mrposhman]

Sure, there's the upside, a charmed run on the injury front could mask the lack of depth, that is also possible, but I also think there needs to be some acknowledgment that a similar season to 2021 could have some nasty residue.

lack of depth?? The only area we have a lack of depth is ruck, but who knows what happens with Ryan this year. Same if 1 of our forwards go down, but as we have seen Gibcus could probably fill in there anyway.

I don't see a huge lack of depth across our squad, we probably have a stronger squad overall than what we had in 2017/18.

 

[Willo]

In 2018 / 19 what was actually the level of Soldo's ability?? He'd have been virtually that same age as Delilah will be next season and was cat B rookied as someone who'd never played the game. Delilah at least has been playing the game growing up n his capabilities as a 21 year old this year are far advanced on what Soldo's were in 18 / 19.

Ivan Soldo
Career Season Averages

Year	Team	GM	K	H	D	M	G	B	T	HO	FF	FA	GA	I50	CL	CG	R50	BL
2022​	Tigers​	13​	4.6​	2.7​	7.3​	2.5​	0.5​	0.2​	1.9​	14.2​	1.4​	1.5​	0.1​	1.1​	1.9​	2.5​	0.7​	​
2020​	Tigers​	14​	3.7​	4.0​	7.7​	1.6​	0.1​	0.2​	2.7​	20.9​	1.2​	1.5​	0.1​	0.4​	2.0​	2.4​	0.6​	​
2019​	Tigers​	14​	4.9​	4.3​	9.1​	2.4​	0.4​	0.1​	3.9​	25.6​	1.6​	1.6​	0.1​	1.1​	2.7​	2.1​	1.0​	​
2018​	Tigers​	1​	2.0​	9.0​	11.0​	0​	0​	0​	3.0​	34.0​	2.0​	2.0​	2.0​	0​	4.0​	4.0​	1.0​	​
2017​	Tigers​	7​	3.0​	3.1​	6.1​	1.7​	0.1​	0​	3.1​	21.1​	0.7​	1.3​	0​	0.6​	1.4​	2.1​	0.​

​

Career Season Totals

Year Team GM K H D M G B T HO FF FA GA I50 CL CG R50 BL 2022​ Tigers​ 13​ 60​ 35​ 95​ 32​ 7​ 3​ 24​ 185​ 18​ 20​ 2​ 14​ 25​ 33​ 9​ ​ 2020​ Tigers​ 14​ 52​ 56​ 108​ 23​ 2​ 3​ 38​ 292​ 17​ 21​ 2​ 6​ 28​ 33​ 8​ ​ 2019​ Tigers​ 14​ 68​ 60​ 128​ 33​ 6​ 2​ 55​ 359​ 22​ 22​ 1​ 16​ 38​ 29​ 14​ ​ 2018​ Tigers​ 1​ 2​ 9​ 11​ 0​ 0​ 0​ 3​ 34​ 2​ 2​ 2​ 0​ 4​ 4​ 1​ ​ 2017​ Tigers​ 7​ 21​ 22​ 43​ 12​ 1​ 0​ 22​ 148​ 5​ 9​ 0​ 4​ 10​ 15​ 5​ ​ Career​ 49​ 203​ 182​ 385​ 100​ 16​ 8​ 142​ 1018​ 64​ 74​ 7​ 40​ 105​ 114​ 37​

 

[TigerMasochist]

10 disposals, 25 hit outs, half a goal a game, that's probably the barometer for a replacement.

That's his 2019 numbers n pretty decent for a back up ruck yet his numbers across the board dropped for the same amount of games in 2020 when he should have been on a massive improvement curve. From Delilahs performance at magoos level this year, I'd reckon he could step into those levels as back up for Nank next year. Won't know for certain until he gets a look, but we'll just have to wait n see.

 

[TigerMasochist]

Ivan Soldo
Career Season Averages

Year	Team	GM	K	H	D	M	G	B	T	HO	FF	FA	GA	I50	CL	CG	R50	BL
2022​	Tigers​	13​	4.6​	2.7​	7.3​	2.5​	0.5​	0.2​	1.9​	14.2​	1.4​	1.5​	0.1​	1.1​	1.9​	2.5​	0.7​	​
2020​	Tigers​	14​	3.7​	4.0​	7.7​	1.6​	0.1​	0.2​	2.7​	20.9​	1.2​	1.5​	0.1​	0.4​	2.0​	2.4​	0.6​	​
2019​	Tigers​	14​	4.9​	4.3​	9.1​	2.4​	0.4​	0.1​	3.9​	25.6​	1.6​	1.6​	0.1​	1.1​	2.7​	2.1​	1.0​	​
2018​	Tigers​	1​	2.0​	9.0​	11.0​	0​	0​	0​	3.0​	34.0​	2.0​	2.0​	2.0​	0​	4.0​	4.0​	1.0​	​
2017​	Tigers​	7​	3.0​	3.1​	6.1​	1.7​	0.1​	0​	3.1​	21.1​	0.7​	1.3​	0​	0.6​	1.4​	2.1​	0.​

​

Career Season Totals

Year Team GM K H D M G B T HO FF FA GA I50 CL CG R50 BL 2022​ Tigers​ 13​ 60​ 35​ 95​ 32​ 7​ 3​ 24​ 185​ 18​ 20​ 2​ 14​ 25​ 33​ 9​ ​ 2020​ Tigers​ 14​ 52​ 56​ 108​ 23​ 2​ 3​ 38​ 292​ 17​ 21​ 2​ 6​ 28​ 33​ 8​ ​ 2019​ Tigers​ 14​ 68​ 60​ 128​ 33​ 6​ 2​ 55​ 359​ 22​ 22​ 1​ 16​ 38​ 29​ 14​ ​ 2018​ Tigers​ 1​ 2​ 9​ 11​ 0​ 0​ 0​ 3​ 34​ 2​ 2​ 2​ 0​ 4​ 4​ 1​ ​ 2017​ Tigers​ 7​ 21​ 22​ 43​ 12​ 1​ 0​ 22​ 148​ 5​ 9​ 0​ 4​ 10​ 15​ 5​ ​ Career​ 49​ 203​ 182​ 385​ 100​ 16​ 8​ 142​ 1018​ 64​ 74​ 7​ 40​ 105​ 114​ 37​

Tap ruck n not a hell of a lot else happening for the big fella. Nank plays the big hard crash n bash beastie in the ruck, second ruck needs to be more than just a tap n go, has to provide some sort of mobile versatility n finesse.

 

[tigerfan1961]

We are all assuming that Soldo is going as part of the trade but according to a report on tonight’s news, he’s still not committed to it. Report said if he doesn’t agree to be traded, he will be retained but Hopper will still get to us using picks alone. Will be interesting to see what happens

 

[bullus_hit]

That's his 2019 numbers n pretty decent for a back up ruck yet his numbers across the board dropped for the same amount of games in 2020 when he should have been on a massive improvement curve. From Delilahs performance at magoos level this year, I'd reckon he could step into those levels as back up for Nank next year. Won't know for certain until he gets a look, but we'll just have to wait n see.

Let's hope so, I just hope the tank is up to the task at hand.

 

[spook]

That's his 2019 numbers n pretty decent for a back up ruck yet his numbers across the board dropped for the same amount of games in 2020 when he should have been on a massive improvement curve. From Delilahs performance at magoos level this year, I'd reckon he could step into those levels as back up for Nank next year. Won't know for certain until he gets a look, but we'll just have to wait n see.

Shorter games in 2020. Soldo was better than in 2019.

 

[jb03]

Soldo has been poor post knee. I suspect the club is relying on Ryan simply being the Soldo replacement.

 

[tigerdell]

Also mixing up of 2nd ruck and backup 1st ruck.

2nd ruck in the 22 and playing a mix of forward and ruck.
Most would agree that Soldo isn't our ideal 2nd ruck, with Miller performing that well towards the end of the season.
Nank and Soldo combo isn't dynamic or flexible enough.

Whereas the backup 1st ruck is playing his rucktrade in the twos. Then when Nank is injured, they are picked as our starting ruck.
That's Soldo,s best position.
Miller, Ryan, Biggie and Colina are not ready for this and would all be behind Chol if he was still with us. And I for one am glad we don't have Chol!

Short answer is if Soldo is traded we need to bring in a backup 1st ruck

 

[momentai]

It all comes down to how you view our chances of a top 4 finish I suppose, it's not yet a guarantee but more of an assumption. The worst case scenario is we lose a top 10 pick, miss out on an AFL quality key forward & struggle to find a decent back-up ruck. If there's more to dole out then there could feasibly be 4 avenues of buyer's remorse. I think there's definite potential for this trade to implode.

Unfortunately that is right.
Not going back into it but the loss of a future 1st is dangerous for a several reasons, one of which is the inability to react to a failure of either our youngish remaining rucks or/ and KPF’s to progress as we had hoped.
Like the rest of you hoping for the best.

 

[mrposhman]

We are all assuming that Soldo is going as part of the trade but according to a report on tonight’s news, he’s still not committed to it. Report said if he doesn’t agree to be traded, he will be retained but Hopper will still get to us using picks alone. Will be interesting to see what happens

Suggests to me that the sticking point is what picks come back to us. Sounds like we still want 1 or 2 picks in this draft.

 

[momentai]

Suggests to me that the sticking point is what picks come back to us. Sounds like we still want 1 or 2 picks in this draft.

Moral of the story is that when you trade away your picks you don’t have any left.

Posh if Soldo isn’t agreeable and our dinner party guy has got the wrong information, is it going to be F1 and pick 19 for Hopper, or will GWS not go ahead?

 

[mrposhman]

Posh if Soldo isn’t agreeable and our dinner party guy has got the wrong information, is it going to be F1 and pick 19 for Hopper, or will GWS not go ahead?

19's already gone. You mean 31.

It might be something like an extra pick swap next year, I assume that might be allowable in the rules, ie, we aren't trading out of the draft, just back. Plus I still think we get something back from them in this draft. I still think our aim is for Pick 44 (will end up around 38-39 in the actual draft).

It seems they want a little more value than F1 and 31 but I don't expect it to be a massive increase in value from those 2, it just depends what they see as that value.