Welcome to Tigerland - Tim Taranto

[bullus_hit]

I am a bit more optimistic about Hopper and think combined with Taranto and prestia martin bolton puts our midfield into the top echelon of midfields and elevates Richmond into a serious flag contender and F1 will most likely become 15-18 pick next year and #31 this year is about the same as #44 in quality.

Lemmy could still be a real possibility at pick #50 going by how badly he has dropped down the order
personally im not seeing Soldo as a massive loss and believe Ryan will be a better 2nd ruck option in 18 months time but still holding out hope for 2023 with more development how ever we will nee another Ruck on the list for cover if he is to depart

I am just sick of getting smashed at clearances which has cost us imo a top 2 spot in 2022

Clearances need attention, an inside mid critical but the cost in this particular instance questionable. A future first could also be a top 10 pick, that's on top having to find another ruck, Ryan sounds good in theory but is rucking his main craft? If the answer is no then it is surely a problem that needs fixing this year. As for Lemmey, I'd say it's unlikely, pick 31 about right, I think Knobel will be more obtainable with our picks.

 

[turk-d-tiger]

Clearances need attention, an inside mid critical but the cost in this particular instance questionable. A future first could also be a top 10 pick, that's on top having to find another ruck, Ryan sounds good in theory but is rucking his main craft? If the answer is no then it is surely a problem that needs fixing this year. As for Lemmey, I'd say it's unlikely, pick 31 about right, I think Knobel will be more obtainable with our picks.

But how many clubs have a top tier 2nd Ruckman ? Most barely have a good 1st Ruck and i believe a top tier midfield with quality depth can negate the oppositions ruck and still win games. Nank is our captain and a durable Ruckman

We do need another 2nd Ruck but not Soldo who is not able to play alongside Nank as they are too similar
my ideal 2nd Ruck would be a more developed miller type which im hoping Ryan becomes
I believe our Ruck issue will just be a short term problem for 2023 and worst case scenario we structure to opposition Ruckman

Structurally list wise we do need 1 more developing Ruck & KPF so perhaps Lemmy & Knobel are the types we select
2 picks 40-55 should be suitable to get these types but who knows what they become and i have not seen any juniors at all this year so you might want to throw up some names you like

 

[bullus_hit]

But how many clubs have a top tier 2nd Ruckman ? Most barely have a good 1st Ruck and i believe a top tier midfield with quality depth can negate the oppositions ruck and still win games. Nank is our captain and a durable Ruckman

We do need another 2nd Ruck but not Soldo who is not able to play alongside Nank as they are too similar
my ideal 2nd Ruck would be a more developed miller type which im hoping Ryan becomes
I believe our Ruck issue will just be a short term problem for 2023 and worst case scenario we structure to opposition Ruckman

Structurally list wise we do need 1 more developing Ruck & KPF so perhaps Lemmy & Knobel are the types we select
2 picks 40-55 should be suitable to get these types but who knows what they become and i have not seen any juniors at all this year so you might want to throw up some names you like

Soldo is definitely not untouchable but you also have to consider the cost of a replacement, if you want a more mobile type then you would probably need to spend up. As to your question of depth in the top tier, I think Melbourne are tops, Geelong pretty good with Blicavs as their relief ruck, Doggies have English & Sweet with Stef Martin the third in line. Collingwood have Cameron & Cox, Sydney have Hickey & Ladhams, Fremantle have Darcy & Meek. Without wanting to labour the point, I don't think you can run a locked & loaded campaign with a second ruck who's on a learning curve, even if you are only banking on coverage for a few games, you are still putting a top 4 place at risk. Can't afford too many slip ups & given Nank has missed a fair bit of footy the past 4 years I think there's a fair bit of complacency setting in.

 

[TigerPort]

Nankervis played every game this year and has played every finals game since he arrived

Too much chicken little going on about Nankervis and the ruck role

Give me Taranto and Hopper now

 

[bullus_hit]

Nankervis played every game this year and has played every finals game since he arrived

Too much chicken little going on about Nankervis and the ruck role

Give me Taranto and Hopper now

He's missed 34 games the past 4 years, by that measure there's a chance he misses chunks. I'd be looking for depth myself.

 

[FitenFitenWin]

They've put time into Miller and Biggie rucking at VFL level and now Ryan. Another preseason learning the ropes as a secondary negating ruck - we might just scrape by with this lot. Certainly no worse than 2017.

 

[tigerfan1961]

Soldo is definitely not untouchable but you also have to consider the cost of a replacement, if you want a more mobile type then you would probably need to spend up. As to your question of depth in the top tier, I think Melbourne are tops, Geelong pretty good with Blicavs as their relief ruck, Doggies have English & Sweet with Stef Martin the third in line. Collingwood have Cameron & Cox, Sydney have Hickey & Ladhams, Fremantle have Darcy & Meek. Without wanting to labour the point, I don't think you can run a locked & loaded campaign with a second ruck who's on a learning curve, even if you are only banking on coverage for a few games, you are still putting a top 4 place at risk. Can't afford too many slip ups & given Nank has missed a fair bit of footy the past 4 years I think there's a fair bit of complacency setting in.

Complacency? You’re kidding, Blair plans list positions out to 5 years Mate, I know that for a fact. He would be very much aware of what the list is going to be looking like in future years. We needed to address being flogged out of the centre this season, I sat there watching it and it was our obvious weakness. By having two clearance beasts in there, we can surely negate the loss of Nank if that happens? Seeing how atrocious we were when Prestia went down just proves to me how much we need Taranto and Hopper.
A back up ruck position will have been looked at if we allow Soldo to leave, and we may look to address it by adding one to the list. If we didn’t think we could cover his loss, we wouldn't agree to let him go as he’s contracted. For me, the biggest weakness we have to fix going forward is a key forward. I’m sure they are onto that as well, just as they were when we secured Lynch.

 

[tha8ball]

Complacency? You’re kidding, Blair plans list positions out to 5 years Mate, I know that for a fact. He would be very much aware of what the list is going to be looking like in future years. We needed to address being flogged out of the centre this season, I sat there watching it and it was our obvious weakness. By having two clearance beasts in there, we can surely negate the loss of Nank if that happens? Seeing how atrocious we were when Prestia went down just proves to me how much we need Taranto and Hopper.
A back up ruck position will have been looked at if we allow Soldo to leave, and we may look to address it by adding one to the list. If we didn’t think we could cover his loss, we wouldn't agree to let him go as he’s contracted. For me, the biggest weakness we have to fix going forward is a key forward. I’m sure they are onto that as well, just as they were when we secured Lynch.

Spot on.

 

[Leysy Days]

Indeed.

On Sampilands. He might start out with time forward, but he will furnish into a number 1 ruck, resting forward ILO.

That is nearly always the case with guys his size.

And in 12 to 18 months, perhaps less, he would have flown by Soldo as Nanks backup anyway.

By signing him up long term so early and letting Mabs, CCJ and Soldo go - You can tell the club know how good this fella will be (as well as watching him).

 

[bullus_hit]

Complacency? You’re kidding, Blair plans list positions out to 5 years Mate, I know that for a fact. He would be very much aware of what the list is going to be looking like in future years. We needed to address being flogged out of the centre this season, I sat there watching it and it was our obvious weakness. By having two clearance beasts in there, we can surely negate the loss of Nank if that happens? Seeing how atrocious we were when Prestia went down just proves to me how much we need Taranto and Hopper.
A back up ruck position will have been looked at if we allow Soldo to leave, and we may look to address it by adding one to the list. If we didn’t think we could cover his loss, we wouldn't agree to let him go as he’s contracted. For me, the biggest weakness we have to fix going forward is a key forward. I’m sure they are onto that as well, just as they were when we secured Lynch.

If he manages to get a decent ruck back-up from here then I'll be feeling a bit more at ease, let's just see how things pan out. So far the Hopper trade is looking very lopsided, GWS are getting greedy asking for more than a future first, Soldo & pick 31.

 

[turk-d-tiger]

If he manages to get a decent ruck back-up from here then I'll be feeling a bit more at ease, let's just see how things pan out. So far the Hopper trade is looking very lopsided, GWS are getting greedy asking for more than a future first, Soldo & pick 31.

Are they though ?

From where i see it Hopper is a top 10 draft pick player but lets just rate him as a pick #10

Im thinking our most likely finshing position will be top 4 next year or at worst top 6 with a best case scenario for GWS being pick #13 and worst case #18 and most likely blown out 1 or 2 spots with father sons or academy kids but for the sake of this discussion lets go by pick #15.

Soldo would be rated between pick #35-#50 if traded going by what most 2nd rucks trade for , Our 2nd this year pick #31 in a weak draft is not really that precious and both Soldo & 30 might get you down to pick #20 this year

#15 +#20 for a contracted 25 year old mid we offered 7 years at $700k-$750k ?
If we were offered these 2 picks for a 29 year old Nick Vlastuin we would be thinking its about right or slightly over

But where our list demographic is the next 2 years we have a real chance to win another cup and 1 injury to a Prestia or Taranto could stop that. I think your main concern is losing the Ruck insurance but i think we will be able to cope with the midfield thats now assembled Brisbane lost their #1 Ruckman and still managed to beat us with Nank dominating the taps

 

[jimbob]

Complacency? You’re kidding, Blair plans list positions out to 5 years Mate, I know that for a fact. He would be very much aware of what the list is going to be looking like in future years. We needed to address being flogged out of the centre this season, I sat there watching it and it was our obvious weakness. By having two clearance beasts in there, we can surely negate the loss of Nank if that happens? Seeing how atrocious we were when Prestia went down just proves to me how much we need Taranto and Hopper.
A back up ruck position will have been looked at if we allow Soldo to leave, and we may look to address it by adding one to the list. If we didn’t think we could cover his loss, we wouldn't agree to let him go as he’s contracted. For me, the biggest weakness we have to fix going forward is a key forward. I’m sure they are onto that as well, just as they were when we secured Lynch.

I stand by what I have said previously. Last year we loaded up on draft picks. Can’t remember if Cornes sooked up how it was possible for us to have 5 picks inside the top 30, but I expect he was at the time. We went deep to the draft and then this year it is “ready made” time. Also an opportunity for Cornes to sook about how we could get our hands on 2 players of this calibre.

Taranto and Hopper should just about be peaking in terms of their maturity and games experience. They are both “known knowns” in terms of output at the highest level. Plenty of top tenners in the draft have sunk without trace. They are also what we have been severely lacking in big bodied mids.

Maybe next year we work hard in pushing our way back into the draft.

In Blair and co….I trust!

 

[bullus_hit]

Are they though ?

From where i see it Hopper is a top 10 draft pick player but lets just rate him as a pick #10

Im thinking our most likely finshing position will be top 4 next year or at worst top 6 with a best case scenario for GWS being pick #13 and worst case #18 and most likely blown out 1 or 2 spots with father sons or academy kids but for the sake of this discussion lets go by pick #15.

Soldo would be rated between pick #35-#50 if traded going by what most 2nd rucks trade for , Our 2nd this year pick #31 in a weak draft is not really that precious and both Soldo & 30 might get you down to pick #20 this year

#15 +#20 for a contracted 25 year old mid we offered 7 years at $700k-$750k ?
If we were offered these 2 picks for a 29 year old Nick Vlastuin we would be thinking its about right or slightly over

But where our list demographic is the next 2 years we have a real chance to win another cup and 1 injury to a Prestia or Taranto could stop that. I think your main concern is losing the Ruck insurance but i think we will be able to cope with the midfield thats now assembled Brisbane lost their #1 Ruckman and still managed to beat us with Nank dominating the taps

At some point we'll need to cough up for a second ruck, if that's a state league guy then we're probably weakening that area & that makes the future first a bit more vulnerable. If we finish 12th, maybe in part due to injuries or whatever, the first rounder probably becomes a bankable rookie, maybe even a key forward, that's a gamble for a midfielder who will be a free agent next year. Pick 31 also has some value in my opinion, I can see some solid project talls in that range.

 

[turk-d-tiger]

At some point we'll need to cough up for a second ruck, if that's a state league guy then we're probably weakening that area & that makes the future first a bit more vulnerable. If we finish 12th, maybe in part due to injuries or whatever, the first rounder probably becomes a bankable rookie, maybe even a key forward, that's a gamble for a midfielder who will be a free agent next year. Pick 31 also has some value in my opinion, I can see some solid project talls in that range.

The thing is we need o go for it now with the players we have and we cannot bottom out for 4-5 years losing our players that are in the 24-27 year age bracket
Both Hopper & Tarranto compliment the age demographic if Graham , Bolton , Short , Baker and put us in the window with
Grimes, Vlastuin , Broad , Nank , McIntosh , Pickett etc still having 2-4 years

Spiralling down te ladder to a constant attempt to climb up is never good when we have the ability to get 2 top line mids now by sacrificing late picks on potential kids becoming decent. We have enough players under 22 and enough over 30 but short players 24-28 (quality players)

 

[bullus_hit]

The thing is we need o go for it now with the players we have and we cannot bottom out for 4-5 years losing our players that are in the 24-27 year age bracket
Both Hopper & Tarranto compliment the age demographic if Graham , Bolton , Short , Baker and put us in the window with
Grimes, Vlastuin , Broad , Nank , McIntosh , Pickett etc still having 2-4 years

Spiralling down te ladder to a constant attempt to climb up is never good when we have the ability to get 2 top line mids now by sacrificing late picks on potential kids becoming decent. We have enough players under 22 and enough over 30 but short players 24-28 (quality players)

This is the riskiest trade I can recall since the Beck years, I get all the upside, a fully fit squad is top 4 material. But as you know, injuries can play a big role, I don't think you can just rely on your best 22, I think it goes much deeper than that & even Hopper himself is fresh from a long stint on the sidelines. The added risk is compounded by the fact we are short on a ruck which is likely to have some impact on our clearance winning ability, whether that's a short stint or a long stint is in the lap of the gods but if Nank provides a similar return to his 2018 & 2019 campaigns then there will be a clear requirement for someone of Soldo's ability. If you are happy to play part timers all year then maybe we can fluke it like Grigg, I'm not so confident myself, I think rucks have been given a bad name lately & experienced rucks worth their weight in gold.

 

[Scoop]

This is the riskiest trade I can recall since the Beck years,

Yarran trade.
Polak trade & pick slide, you don’t get Jack and it’s a disaster.
The McMahon trade.
The Grigg trade.

And that’s off the top of my head.

 

[Eddie from Elwood]

The thing is we need o go for it now with the players we have and we cannot bottom out for 4-5 years losing our players that are in the 24-27 year age bracket
Both Hopper & Tarranto compliment the age demographic if Graham , Bolton , Short , Baker and put us in the window with
Grimes, Vlastuin , Broad , Nank , McIntosh , Pickett etc still having 2-4 years

Spiralling down te ladder to a constant attempt to climb up is never good when we have the ability to get 2 top line mids now by sacrificing late picks on potential kids becoming decent. We have enough players under 22 and enough over 30 but short players 24-28 (quality players)

After last year's haul of kids, I'm fine with missing this year's draft......loosing next year's 1st rounder is less palatable and I'd prefer it didn't happen.

 

[Elmer]

This is the riskiest trade I can recall since the Beck years, I get all the upside, a fully fit squad is top 4 material. But as you know, injuries can play a big role, I don't think you can just rely on your best 22, I think it goes much deeper than that & even Hopper himself is fresh from a long stint on the sidelines. The added risk is compounded by the fact we are short on a ruck which is likely to have some impact on our clearance winning ability, whether that's a short stint or a long stint is in the lap of the gods but if Nank provides a similar return to his 2018 & 2019 campaigns then there will be a clear requirement for someone of Soldo's ability. If you are happy to play part timers all year then maybe we can fluke it like Grigg, I'm not so confident myself, I think rucks have been given a bad name lately & experienced rucks worth their weight in gold.

Soldo's weight in gold comes in over $9m... I don't think he is worth that!

I'd prefer to keep Soldo but think he is 2nd or insurance and you probably should trade insurance for a good starting midfielder.

That said, I like how you stick to your guns BH with balanced responses to the more antagonistic posts.

 

[turk-d-tiger]

This is the riskiest trade I can recall since the Beck years, I get all the upside, a fully fit squad is top 4 material. But as you know, injuries can play a big role, I don't think you can just rely on your best 22, I think it goes much deeper than that & even Hopper himself is fresh from a long stint on the sidelines. The added risk is compounded by the fact we are short on a ruck which is likely to have some impact on our clearance winning ability, whether that's a short stint or a long stint is in the lap of the gods but if Nank provides a similar return to his 2018 & 2019 campaigns then there will be a clear requirement for someone of Soldo's ability. If you are happy to play part timers all year then maybe we can fluke it like Grigg, I'm not so confident myself, I think rucks have been given a bad name lately & experienced rucks worth their weight in gold.

I really dont get the risk though !

We are trading for 2 quality mids that are inside bulls with 100+ games and 7-8 years of football ahead of them compared to
2 kids picked between 13-20 and 1 kid 21-23. If we get 1 kid out of the 3 the quality of taranto we would take that and he would take 3-4 years to get to the required level and most likely off very little the next 2-3 years whilst developing.

Regarding relying on best 22 again i feel Hopper is a more dangerous and ready player that was injured last year but came back and with a 2 month rest and a proper pre season will be well and truly over his knee issue and both Prestia & Lynch were further back when acquired the club would have been all over this before offering up a 7 year deal if thats the case.

Nank has been a very durable Ruckman apart from the syndesmosis he had in 2020 and the knee last year but maybe its me and my thoughts on Rucks but i dont see either of Nank or Soldo as being elite Ruckman like a Grundy , Gawn or Goldstein/Cox/Sandi etc of the past and dont think we will lose that much if he is out for 4-6 weeks in a year and have reasonable backup for short stints with Miller/Ryan who are no longer kids and have ready made bodies and its a big difference when our 2nd ruck was grigg but if we need insurance then we get a cheap lug to be that battering ram from lower ranks

But im confident our new found strong midfield depth will see us through even if Nank went down and wont be the first time a clubs mids have had to play to the oppositions Ruckman but we also have extra help in Balta , Miler .

But Im still in favour of getting your Boy Max and Harry if we end up with the suitable picks which would give us some under growth

 

[bullus_hit]

Yarran trade.
Polak trade & pick slide, you don’t get Jack and it’s a disaster.
The McMahon trade.
The Grigg trade.

And that’s off the top of my head.

Those trades were risky, Yarran was new territory altogether, but from a draft pick perspective I think it will sting if we have a middling season next year. Any pick in the top 10 could come back to bite, you just have to hope you have luck on the injury front & force that pick out into the teens.

Pick 31 is also the range for Lemmey or Gruzewski, these are two players who look to have decent upsides, I think if they hit their peak they could defy their second round billing.

And there's the cost of finding a new second ruck, this also has to be factored into the equation. If there's any more collateral involved I'd say we're paying an extraordinary amount for an inside midfielder coming back from injury.