List Management

[IrockZ]

In the 10 rucks at both teams there is only one A-grade an he is a RFC player there is only 2 potential A grade rucks of the rest an both Hawthorn an us have one.

im not saying they have AA standard rucks because they dont, i just like how their stocks are setup

2 mature age - campbell/taylor
2 youngsters - bailey/renouf
1 development - mcentee

all are good sizes

we on the other hand are still vunerable and the cartledge pickup had to be done when in an ideal world we shouldnt have to

 

[Willo]

im not saying they have AA standard rucks because they dont, i just like how their stocks are setup

2 mature age - campbell/taylor
2 youngsters - bailey/renouf
1 development - mcentee

all are good sizes

we on the other hand are still vunerable and the cartledge pickup had to be done when in an ideal world we shouldnt have to

How would you classify Cartledge, Rocky?
2 mature age-Simmonds/Cartledge
2 youngsters-Graham/Pattison
1 development-Putt
probably not far off, but agree will need more next year. I hope we pick up another mature age and another to develop

 

[SkiddyMcGhee]

From another view on this, since Wallace's reign 04 - 07, here are the delistings & retirements and the year:-

Blumfield (04), Bowden (07), Campbell (05), Chaffey (06), Dragicevic (04), Fleming (04), Fletcher (04), Gaspar (07), Graham (05), Hall (07), Hartigan (07), Hilton (05), Houlihan (04), Humm (06), Kellaway (06), Kellaway (04), Kingsley (04), Knobel (07), Krakouer (07), Marsh (04), Morrison (05), Nicholls (04), Roach (06), Rodan (06), Rogers (04), Stafford (06), Weller (04) and Zantuck (04)

Which makes a team something like this:-

B A Kellaway, Gaspar, D Kellaway
HB P Bowden, Hall, Chaffey
C Dragicevic, Fleming, Blumfield
HF Hilton, Morrison, Houlihan
F Krakouer, Stafford, Kingsley
F Knobel, Campbell, Rodan,
I/C Roach, Rogers, Graham, Hartigan


And those souls who couldn't even cut the mustard in this team... :

Fletcher, Humm, Marsh, Nicholls, Weller and Zantuck

So when TW says the list he inherited was a train wreck, he was being kind and I think we have come a long way since then with solid list management and investment in youth.

 

[AstuteTiger]

From another view on this, since Wallace's reign 04 - 07, here are the delistings & retirements and the year:-

Blumfield (04), Bowden (07), Campbell (05), Chaffey (06), Dragicevic (04), Fleming (04), Fletcher (04), Gaspar (07), Graham (05), Hall (07), Hartigan (07), Hilton (05), Houlihan (04), Humm (06), Kellaway (06), Kellaway (04), Kingsley (04), Knobel (07), Krakouer (07), Marsh (04), Morrison (05), Nicholls (04), Roach (06), Rodan (06), Rogers (04), Stafford (06), Weller (04) and Zantuck (04)

Which makes a team something like this:-

B A Kellaway, Gaspar, D Kellaway
HB P Bowden, Hall, Chaffey
C Dragicevic, Fleming, Blumfield
HF Hilton, Morrison, Houlihan
F Krakouer, Stafford, Kingsley
F Knobel, Campbell, Rodan,
I/C Roach, Rogers, Graham, Hartigan


And those souls who couldn't even cut the mustard in this team... :

Fletcher, Humm, Marsh, Nicholls, Weller and Zantuck

So when TW says the list he inherited was a train wreck, he was being kind and I think we have come a long way since then with solid list management and investment in youth.

Good post Skiddy! mate apart from a few names the majority on that list definitely repesent a train wreck.

 

[RedanTiger]

From another view on this, since Wallace's reign 04 - 07, here are the delistings & retirements and the year:-

Blumfield (04), Bowden (07), Campbell (05), Chaffey (06), Dragicevic (04), Fleming (04), Fletcher (04), Gaspar (07), Graham (05), Hall (07), Hartigan (07), Hilton (05), Houlihan (04), Humm (06), Kellaway (06), Kellaway (04), Kingsley (04), Knobel (07), Krakouer (07), Marsh (04), Morrison (05), Nicholls (04), Roach (06), Rodan (06), Rogers (04), Stafford (06), Weller (04) and Zantuck (04)

Which makes a team something like this:-

B A Kellaway, Gaspar, D Kellaway
HB P Bowden, Hall, Chaffey
C Dragicevic, Fleming, Blumfield
HF Hilton, Morrison, Houlihan
F Krakouer, Stafford, Kingsley
F Knobel, Campbell, Rodan,
I/C Roach, Rogers, Graham, Hartigan


And those souls who couldn't even cut the mustard in this team... :

Fletcher, Humm, Marsh, Nicholls, Weller and Zantuck

So when TW says the list he inherited was a train wreck, he was being kind and I think we have come a long way since then with solid list management and investment in youth.

Little bit unfair blaming Danny for Graham, P Bowden, Knobel or Kingsley since I believe they were recruited under Terry's reign.

 

[the claw]

From another view on this, since Wallace's reign 04 - 07, here are the delistings & retirements and the year:-

Blumfield (04), Bowden (07), Campbell (05), Chaffey (06), Dragicevic (04), Fleming (04), Fletcher (04), Gaspar (07), Graham (05), Hall (07), Hartigan (07), Hilton (05), Houlihan (04), Humm (06), Kellaway (06), Kellaway (04), Kingsley (04), Knobel (07), Krakouer (07), Marsh (04), Morrison (05), Nicholls (04), Roach (06), Rodan (06), Rogers (04), Stafford (06), Weller (04) and Zantuck (04)

Which makes a team something like this:-

B A Kellaway, Gaspar, D Kellaway
HB P Bowden, Hall, Chaffey
C Dragicevic, Fleming, Blumfield
HF Hilton, Morrison, Houlihan
F Krakouer, Stafford, Kingsley
F Knobel, Campbell, Rodan,
I/C Roach, Rogers, Graham, Hartigan


And those souls who couldn't even cut the mustard in this team... :

Fletcher, Humm, Marsh, Nicholls, Weller and Zantuck

So when TW says the list he inherited was a train wreck, he was being kind and I think we have come a long way since then with solid list management and investment in youth.

i agree we have come a long way in regards investment in youth it has improved markedly but again i believe we could have done more.by this i mean utilising just 3 picks in 05 and again this yr is a mistake imo.anyway what other option did we have but start to invest in kids? continue to trade most of our picks away.which is what was happening. also i dont think anyone could argue that we have come from a long way back i have defended wallace on this point myself. a good part of that was miller.ask yourself how many of your list were miller selections.

we have been poor as far as list management goes. recruiting kids or recruitment is only a part of overall list management. the area of list management that has been very poor is structure or player type if you like. i think we have been okay in our player selections but i think we could have and should have done better in this area. look what happened to us this yr with minimal injuries tuck in the ruck raines playing on kps take foley out of the equation and what inside players did we have. the structure of the team went to pieces because chronic deficiencies in structure have been ignored. anyway around and around we go i disagree with most when it comes to our list and its management.


some names that arent on your above list.gilmore 05 archibald 05. peterson 07.fiora 04 ottens 04.

 

[IrockZ]

How would you classify Cartledge, Rocky?
2 mature age-Simmonds/Cartledge
2 youngsters-Graham/Pattison
1 development-Putt
probably not far off, but agree will need more next year. I hope we pick up another mature age and another to develop

i agree it looks a bit better but this should be the MINIMUM going into any season, we shouldnt be waiting until simmo is gone to get another either if we have an opportunity to take another good youngster next year just do it

 

[nwonash]

I actually think the list is starting to head in the right direction.

Yes, there are 3-4 players I believe a lucky to be on the list, but we only have 11 players who are 25 or older.

It's a young list. I remember when John Northey was coach of Richmond, he made some decisions on our list and axed some players. I took 3 years before we made the finals under Northey. Like Northey, Wallace has made some hard calls and given the kids every opportunity.

I really see us in another 2 years being finals material.

I'd like to revisit this thread at the end on 2009.

I really think this year we recuited the best in many years.

 

[Tigers of Old]

So when TW says the list he inherited was a train wreck, he was being kind and I think we have come a long way since then

We are still wooden spooners.

Give me results not pie in the sky predictions of success.

 

[gustiger12]

We are still wooden spooners.

Give me results not pie in the sky predictions of success.

Obviously Santa Claus didn't bring you that bike. ;D

 

[Ian4]

bump.

With Dimma gone, this officially marks the end of an era. Add to that our failure to compete for finals in 2023… I wonder if the list management team will be reassessing our position in the grand scheme of things and pull out a bigger broom? And perhaps also look to trade into a better drafting position?

 

[mrposhman]

I go against some of the louder posters on this board, but our list isn't in as bad shape as people seem to think. Sure there are some gaping holes but the list in general is looking decent, nothing a good draft period, some luck with a couple of the kids we have on the books and a couple of nice trades wouldn't impact. I only looked at players 26 and under for this as I was looking 5 years into the future.

Backs - Best 22 - Balta (23), Young (24) Gibcus (20), Baker (25), Rioli (26) - That core will take us through the next 5 years.
Backs - Depth/ Developing / Unknowns - Miller (23), Brown (19), Bauer (20), Smith (18)
Mids - Best 22 - Hopper (26), Taranto (25), Bolton (24), Graham (25), Ross (22) - Solid core
Mids - Depth / Developing / Unknowns - Sonsie (20), RalphSmith (21), Dow (21), Banks (20) - Need some more depth here especially if Dow is delisted
Rucks - Best 22 - Ryan (22)
Rucks - Depth / Developing / Unknowns - Nyuon (22) - Probably need to add another young ruck for Maric to develop. Colina isn't it
Forwards - Best 22 -
Forwards - Depth / Developing / Unknowns - Cumberland (22), Rioli (20), Clarke (19), Mansell (22), Bradke (22), Green (19), Campbell (18)

Forwards as I think everyone knows is our main issue, we see it on the field and when you break the list down like this its obvious. We have no-one really cemented into our Best 22 in the forward line under the age of 26.

Outside of that Backs we look fine, we look ok in the midfield group but need more depth but its forward where it all falls down.

As I say though, its not as doom and gloom as some seem to suggest but we do need to get regenerating that forward line, we'll either need some luck, a great draft or trade period, but its something thats fixable.

 

[spook]

I think we have a decent developing core, but we need to find our next superstars.

 

[tigersnake]

I think we have a decent developing core, but we need to find our next superstars.

Agree. Need a new Dusty, Cotchy and Jack. Piece of *smile*.

Got Bakes, Shai, Hopper, Tarranto, Balta and Danny in the bank for the next phase whether its in our side or trade currency. Hopefully Gibcus and Sampson. And hopefully a couple of the young players can step up and make the grade.

 

[Brodders17]

Agree. Need a new Dusty, Cotchy and Jack.

No we dont- the Cats didnt have a Dusty last year- only 3 premiership teams in the last 30 years have.
I'll be generous and give the Cats Hawkins, but the Dees and the Weagles didnt have a Jack (tho Kennedy wasnt bad)
and really Cotch was probably the greatest captain the league has seen since Jack Dyer.

We need to find our new premiership team- not try to replace those greats- and regardless they might still be part of our next flag.

 

[RoarEmotion]

We still have some magic dust but it isn’t fully sprinkled.

Bolton with consistency (unique)
Balta without brain fades (Moore equivalent)
Lynch without injury (3 more years?)
Early call but Ryan with core strength (2 years away?)

Some stretches

Bakes as a future captain?
Rioli jnr one grab everything
Sonsie with confidence
Cumberland with consistency
Prestia fit for a season
Taranto with improved composure ala Dan jackson

Some problems

2nd key forward/ small forward
what we do after grimes/vlaustin/broad/mcintosh/Pickett retire/fall away further

 

[year of the tiger]

No we dont- the Cats didnt have a Dusty last year- only 3 premiership teams in the last 30 years have.
I'll be generous and give the Cats Hawkins, but the Dees and the Weagles didnt have a Jack (tho Kennedy wasnt bad)
and really Cotch was probably the greatest captain the league has seen since Jack Dyer.

We need to find our new premiership team- not try to replace those greats- and regardless they might still be part of our next flag.

Contrary to popular opinion on this board, dangerflop is actually a Dusty gamebreaker that the cats finally had firing in the 22 finals - he came out of his cupboard once he knew the tigers had been eliminated.

I use the term Dusty game breaker loosely though - no other player can walk alongside him at his peak, they linger in his shadows.

 

[eZyT]

Agree. Need a new Dusty, Cotchy and Jack. Piece of *smile*.

Got Bakes, Shai, Hopper, Tarranto, Balta and Danny in the bank for the next phase whether its in our side or trade currency. Hopefully Gibcus and Sampson. And hopefully a couple of the young players can step up and make the grade.

Incredible champions that they are, we will see approximations of cotchy and JR again.

Dusty is a one off.

We all just won the universe lotto being richmond supporters and watching him on The MCG (*and Gabba
)

Its akin to taking smoko under a banyan tree and buddha shares his samosa,

If thats your bag

 

[tigerman]

I go against some of the louder posters on this board, but our list isn't in as bad shape as people seem to think. Sure there are some gaping holes but the list in general is looking decent, nothing a good draft period, some luck with a couple of the kids we have on the books and a couple of nice trades wouldn't impact. I only looked at players 26 and under for this as I was looking 5 years into the future.

Backs - Best 22 - Balta (23), Young (24) Gibcus (20), Baker (25), Rioli (26) - That core will take us through the next 5 years.
Backs - Depth/ Developing / Unknowns - Miller (23), Brown (19), Bauer (20), Smith (18)
Mids - Best 22 - Hopper (26), Taranto (25), Bolton (24), Graham (25), Ross (22) - Solid core
Mids - Depth / Developing / Unknowns - Sonsie (20), RalphSmith (21), Dow (21), Banks (20) - Need some more depth here especially if Dow is delisted
Rucks - Best 22 - Ryan (22)
Rucks - Depth / Developing / Unknowns - Nyuon (22) - Probably need to add another young ruck for Maric to develop. Colina isn't it
Forwards - Best 22 -
Forwards - Depth / Developing / Unknowns - Cumberland (22), Rioli (20), Clarke (19), Mansell (22), Bradke (22), Green (19), Campbell (18)

Forwards as I think everyone knows is our main issue, we see it on the field and when you break the list down like this its obvious. We have no-one really cemented into our Best 22 in the forward line under the age of 26.

Outside of that Backs we look fine, we look ok in the midfield group but need more depth but its forward where it all falls down.

As I say though, its not as doom and gloom as some seem to suggest but we do need to get regenerating that forward line, we'll either need some luck, a great draft or trade period, but its something thats fixable.

A good synopsis.

I'm ok with Himmelberg as a second tall, drafting a Van Rooyen or Amiss is crucial.

If we can't keep players on the park, It doesn't matter how much potential we can see in our list. A review into our Strength and Conditioning should be of the highest priority.

 

[spook]

It's vital now that we get back into the first round this year. Gold Coast's first pick will be for sale. They have three highly-rated academy kids, one of whom (Walter) will attract a very early bid, so they won't want their pick swallowed up.

There were murmurings of Dusty to Gold Coast last year. I don't know if there was anything to them or if he'd want to go (more likely if Dimma takes the job) but if we could get back into the top-10 by saying goodbye to our beloved champion, it would be smart business. It wouldn't tarnish his legacy one iota for me. I know it's different circumstances but Hodge is and will always be a Hawthorn legend.

Otherwise we should seriously consider who else we could part with, and/or think about trading next year's first.