2021 Draft Thread | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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2021 Draft Thread

Feb 25, 2007
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Luckily we didn't take the Talia route


Agree but I heard he failed a fitness test with us and that's why the club then moved on to Tarrant. I rate Tarrant higher anyway, the only difference being Talia is 2 years younger.
 
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tigerman

It's Tiger Time
Mar 17, 2003
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jeez I could retire to a boundary side apartment, growing old watching the tigers every move!!!

I didn't think living at a footy oval was possible until now.
Yep, it's pretty impressive, and spitting distance to the Swan river, where you can throw your crab pots in, or go prawning.
 
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eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
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With where our current list is at. I don't see us using 38 and 40 and if we do not sure why we would do it.

In order to do that, we would need to free spots up on our list and would mean delisting players like Cumberland and Biggie to then bring in someone around the same area in the draft but 2 years younger.

I reckon we take 3 or 4 picks to the ND, whilst strengthening our hand in the 2022 draft.

Drafting say 4 inside 30 this season and then 4 inside 30 next year would be a great way to really hit that rebuild on the go button.

I hear you and broadly agree,

but I reckon some calls on kids out could be as important as calls on kids in,

in this potentially dynastical purgatory we may find ourselves in.

I kind of know it won't happen, but I if I was list manager, I'd reserve a small portion of the list (2 or 3 spots) for a 2 year turn around of speculative picks in the martin/cumberland vein. so when you draft a speculator, its quantitative and unambiguous whether they get a 3rd year or not.

bearing in mind, blokes like Bakes and Mansell show pretty much season 1 that they have what it takes for a 4-5 year investment.

obviously it'd be a pretty harsh policy during Covid.
 
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Redford

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Dec 18, 2002
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And that is why you grab players with multi position talent. Johnson looks like a best 22 player, whether you push him back into defence or get him rolling in the midfield. With his height & skill set I see AFL quality, even if he doesn't hit the heights of Pendles or Macrae, I think he's flexible enough to play in other positions.

Goater is more comfortable as a rebounder, he's not as rushed or panicky down back, so any question marks with his kicking need to be put in context, he's just learning about the midfield game. He's a similar project to Balta in that he has outstanding athletic traits that need refinement. Balta also looked rushed in his early days, this is an area that is seemingly workable within our current developmental framework.
Johnson playing defence ? He’s never played there as far as I’m aware and he doesn’t have the speed and movement to play there anyway. Goater yes. Johnson definitely not.

Whilst I like Johnson, between pick 7 and saying he can play defence, you’re starting to stretch things.
 
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eZyT

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Jun 28, 2019
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Yep, it's pretty impressive, and spitting distance to the Swan river, where you can throw your crab pots in, or go prawning.

what's an oval front joint set you back? jeez it'd be an impossible sell to mrs.ez, but I cant think of anywhere id rather live than at a footy ground.

how far to Ascot? can you buy one with a guarantee you cant hear any South Africans having a Braai?
 

tigerman

It's Tiger Time
Mar 17, 2003
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what's an oval front joint set you back? jeez it'd be an impossible sell to mrs.ez, but I cant think of anywhere id rather live than at a footy ground.

how far to Ascot? can you buy one with a guarantee you cant hear any South Africans having a Braai?
Wouldn't get any change out of 1 million I wouldn't think.
It might an "easy" sell to mrs "easy". Bring your stud bull over for the Royal Perth Show, it's held right next door.
 
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bullus_hit

Whatchu talkin about Jack?
Apr 3, 2006
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Johnson playing defence ? He’s never played there as far as I’m aware and he doesn’t have the speed and movement to play there anyway. Goater yes. Johnson definitely not.

Whilst I like Johnson, between pick 7 and saying he can play defence, you’re starting to stretch things.
I'm referring to his skill set, his height and his overhead ability. He definitely projects as a dual position player, more so than guys like Sonsie & Hobbs, although with the latter you could feasibly perch them in a forward pocket. His work in the defensive half has been fine, he can take a mark and he's a safe disposer of the ball. Not sure how you can simply write him off based on his athletic limitations. He looks like a two way runner to me & he also looks like he can handle close checking.
 
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Redford

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I'm referring to his skill set, his height and his overhead ability. He definitely projects as a dual position player, more so than guys like Sonsie & Hobbs, although with the latter you could feasibly perch them in a forward pocket. His work in the defensive half has been fine, he can take a mark and he's a safe disposer of the ball. Not sure how you can simply write him off based on his athletic limitations. He looks like a two way runner to me & he also looks like he can handle close checking.
That’s like suggesting Cripps can play as a defender. He’s tall and can take a mark as well. Cripps can handle a tag. Does Cripps play as a dedicated defender ? No. And neither will Johnson. He’s so far off being able to play a singular defender role it’s not funny.
 

daniel30

Tiger Superstar
Jun 14, 2010
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Hugh Stagg's of Glenelg could be good get late in the draft fantastic year won the the b and f to.
 
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bullus_hit

Whatchu talkin about Jack?
Apr 3, 2006
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That’s like suggesting Cripps can play as a defender. He’s tall and can take a mark as well. Cripps can handle a tag. Does Cripps play as a dedicated defender ? No. And neither will Johnson. He’s so far off being able to play a singular defender role it’s not funny.
No, it's like suggesting that Pendlebury can play defence, which he did for the most part in season 2021. Completely different types, I wouldn't sit here pushing for RCD to play defence because that's not where his strengths lie. First & foremost, Johnson can kick & generally he spots a player in good position. Secondly, he can take a mark which he has proven against men, I think he's good overhead. Thirdly, or at least from my observations in the state games, is that he does a ton of work in the defensive half. Just because he plays in a more difficult position shouldn't be reason enough to put a red line through his name. Nathan Broad has a very similar skill set and has done ok down there, I don't see any reason as to why a player of Johnson's ability couldn't do a similar job. Think you are being particularly harsh on the lad & from a developmental perspective, I would be insisting that he spends some time down there.
 
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eZyT

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Jun 28, 2019
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That’s like suggesting Cripps can play as a defender. He’s tall and can take a mark as well. Cripps can handle a tag. Does Cripps play as a dedicated defender ? No. And neither will Johnson. He’s so far off being able to play a singular defender role it’s not funny.

its not a huge stretch; Bakes, Danny, Stackman all seem to switch to HB pretty well? Not to mention blokes like James Scicily (189), Luke Hodge,

HB is the easiest spot on the ground. if you can play anywhere else, you can play HB. and if you 190, it'll be even easier. 192, easier again.
 
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Redford

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No, it's like suggesting that Pendlebury can play defence, which he did for the most part in season 2021. Completely different types, I wouldn't sit here pushing for RCD to play defence because that's not where his strengths lie. First & foremost, Johnson can kick & generally he spots a player in good position. Secondly, he can take a mark which he has proven against men, I think he's good overhead. Thirdly, or at least from my observations in the state games, is that he does a ton of work in the defensive half. Just because he plays in a more difficult position shouldn't be reason enough to put a red line through his name. Nathan Broad has a very similar skill set and has done ok down there, I don't see any reason as to why a player of Johnson's ability couldn't do a similar job. Think you are being particularly harsh on the lad & from a developmental perspective, I would be insisting that he spends some time down there.
Sorry, but comparing Johnson now to Broad is also a giant stretch. He doesn’t have anywhere near that speed or gut running. Not even close. And just because he plays on ball and has found himself in the defensive half, as all on ballers naturally do, doesn’t automatically qualify him for a defensive role either.

How would he play one on one down back on someone with his lack of separation ? He’d get burnt alive. He’s never played that role ever before. Not in the 12 or 13 games I’ve watched at least.

Could he pinch hit up forward ? Yes. Take a mark here and there. But a legitimate defender role…. like Broad ? Sorry, that’s going a bridge too far. He’ll make his chops or not as a midfielder.
 
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Redford

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its not a huge stretch; Bakes, Danny, Stackman all seem to switch to HB pretty well? Not to mention blokes like James Scicily (189), Luke Hodge,

HB is the easiest spot on the ground. if you can play anywhere else, you can play HB. and if you 190, it'll be even easier. 192, easier again.
And what does every single one of those players have in common ? They have a turn of speed over the first 15 yards. Johnson does not. He’s just average in that respect. And that’s the slight on him. You can read that on a few scouting reports and such from various people.
 
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eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
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And what does every single one of those players have in common ? They have a turn of speed over the first 15 yards. Johnson does not. He’s just average in that respect. And that’s the slight on him. You can read that on a few scouting reports and such from various people.

Ive never thought of Bakes, Stackman or Luke Hodge as quick.

Johnson doesn't look slow with a footy in his hand by any stretch to my eye? but yeah the scouts have watched a helluva lot more than me.

another very positive sign was how creative and hard running he was in the tight finish WA V SA.

Players who create in the last 5 minutes of a tight game is one of the best measures of footy endurance and competitiveness IMO.

If I was a recruiter, I'd be paying extra special attention to 4th quarter stats.

But I like counter points in this thread more than anywhere else, so (y)
 
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bullus_hit

Whatchu talkin about Jack?
Apr 3, 2006
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Sorry, but comparing Johnson now to Broad is also a giant stretch. He doesn’t have anywhere near that speed or gut running. Not even close. And just because he plays on ball and has found himself in the defensive half, as all on ballers naturally do, doesn’t automatically qualify him for a defensive role either.

How would he play one on one down back on someone with his lack of separation ? He’d get burnt alive. He’s never played that role ever before. Not in the 12 or 13 games I’ve watched at least.

Could he pinch hit up forward ? Yes. Take a mark here and there. But a legitimate defender role…. like Broad ? Sorry, that’s going a bridge too far. He’ll make his chops or not as a midfielder.
Well, let's just agree to disagree, plenty of scope to play defence given his height, strength and quality disposal. The one on one stuff you can teach, you can't teach a kid how to kick. His tank also looks good to me and the Broad comparison was used as an example of the type of position you could look at in the event he falters as a midfielder. What was his sprint time by the way? Looks to be around the 3.10 second mark, reckon he's easily over the 14 beep region, might be wrong but let's just wait and see as these numbers filter through.
 
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bob

Tiger Matchwinner
Mar 18, 2014
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Let’s just hope Johnston isn’t the next Conca and Goater ( who I really rate ) is not the next Fiora.
Wrong choices go both ways.

Think we both agree that club will probably go best available but I’d like a mixture of talls and mids myself.


Been reading everyone's posts - which are fantastic, thanks guys. Loving your insights on the players. 6 more weeks of this will be fun.

Have my thoughts too, but haven't watched as much of the games as all of you - so not as researched. For me - Ward, Ward, Ward. Wont happen at 7 I know. Just a leader as well. Within reason, would do what we can to jump up the order.

Rate Johnson, Rachele, Sinn and Hobbs, its a no for me on NWM. We don't have time to wait on Andrew. Gibcus I just don't see it TBH, I wouldn't reach.

I'm as fascinated by the later picks. Hope we can pick 5. To only take 4 seems a big waste (I'd rather we put Cumberland on the rookie list and delist Garthwaite and Egg).

Was thinking - ukk - about these picks the last few years. Lochie O'Brien Pick 10, Coffield Pick 8 and Hunter Clark pick 7 same draft I think, SPS Pick 6, Brander Pick 13. Is this the level of player we get?
Could be boring but it's why I hope we go the safest options!
 
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Redford

Tiger Legend
Dec 18, 2002
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Well, let's just agree to disagree, plenty of scope to play defence given his height, strength and quality disposal. The one on one stuff you can teach, you can't teach a kid how to kick. His tank also looks good to me and the Broad comparison was used as an example of the type of position you could look at in the event he falters as a midfielder. What was his sprint time by the way? Looks to be around the 3.10 second mark, reckon he's easily over the 14 beep region, might be wrong but let's just wait and see as these numbers filter through.
I like Johnson. A lot. And I won’t have any problem if we snare him. As a midfielder. But to suggest he can play every area of the ground - midfield, up forward and defence - is probably going a bit too far in the admiration stakes for me. If he could play a defined role in every region of the ground then people watching a hell of a lot more of him than me and you (ie the clubs and various talent watchers) would be right onto that amazing capability and he’d be a top 3 or 4 pick. But just about every man and his dog has him in the 12 to 20 range.

But who knows. You could be seeing more to him than all those people. He could turn out to be one of those very very rare beasts.

Guess we’ll just have to wait and see over the next 4 or 5 years.
 
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bullus_hit

Whatchu talkin about Jack?
Apr 3, 2006
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Been reading everyone's posts - which are fantastic, thanks guys. Loving your insights on the players. 6 more weeks of this will be fun.

Have my thoughts too, but haven't watched as much of the games as all of you - so not as researched. For me - Ward, Ward, Ward. Wont happen at 7 I know. Just a leader as well. Within reason, would do what we can to jump up the order.

Rate Johnson, Rachele, Sinn and Hobbs, its a no for me on NWM. We don't have time to wait on Andrew. Gibcus I just don't see it TBH, I wouldn't reach.

I'm as fascinated by the later picks. Hope we can pick 5. To only take 4 seems a big waste (I'd rather we put Cumberland on the rookie list and delist Garthwaite and Egg).

Was thinking - ukk - about these picks the last few years. Lochie O'Brien Pick 10, Coffield Pick 8 and Hunter Clark pick 7 same draft I think, SPS Pick 6, Brander Pick 13. Is this the level of player we get?
Could be boring but it's why I hope we go the safest options!
How do you define safe Bob? I usually do that by forming contingency plans in the event they flounder in their primary position. When you have an outside type like O'Brien (a SOS special) then you are taking on a boom/bust type. Agree on Wanganeen-Milera, very outside and doesn't really project as a ball winner. If we take him then we are looking at an Edwards type role, I like the thinking but then again, the success rate with these positions is patchy. Not willing to take a chance whilst the engine room is stuttering.
 
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bengal tiges

Tiger Rookie
Apr 29, 2015
219
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Plenty of healthy debate going on here but here's my two cents, I'll try to be as succinct as possible.

* This is a midfielders draft so it would pay to play to those strengths. We didn't pick Sam Taylor but that doesn't mean we get a similar type with a pick in the top 10. That isn't maximising our draft hand.

* With four premium picks you can model an entire engine room, a ten year plan so to speak. A blend of taller mids, crafty mids & inside bulls would be preferable. The guys I'm talking about include Johnson, Hobbs, Goater, Sonsie, Butler, Taylor & Ward.

* I would go with the taller mids first & then pick off some medium sized mids further down the draft, it's one reason I'm inclined to take Johnson over Hobbs. I think Hobbs makes an early impact and then gets passed by Johnson at the 3 year mark.

* People are waxing lyrical about Gibcus but there's a bloke called Goater who has better a better vertical leap, an elite sprint time and a proven track record is multiple positions. I am struggling to see how Gibcus is worth pick 7 but Goater isn't worth pick 15 (according to some posters).

* If we are intent on bringing in a tall then by all means grab van Rooyen but if pick 15 is the price then accept that he may only wind up being a KPD. Why? Because the key forwards littering the competition are generally taller, have a better leap & possess a few more tricks.

Play the percentages and we get four core players who will be impacting games as early as next year. Go down the route of Gibcus/van Rooyen and we are looking at 3-4 years of development time with no guarantees they will premiership quality players when the dust settles.

I would much rather nail down the engine room whilst we have this rare opportunity, the composition of which can be moulded to suit our vision of the future. My take on the next few years is bringing in guys who can match it with the Bont/Macrae/Oliver/Petracca types. Some might say there's no hope you will find the next A class mid in this batch, maybe that's true, but if you select players with solid floors then the collateral damage of failure won't be catastrophic.
Waxing the lyrical lololol,l don't know what hymn book your preaching from.
Their's a reason why l consider Gibcus for pick 7,it's his field performance,his contested marking and spoiling is excellent,his second efforts are very good,he's agile,his pace is good,his kicking in general is good,the only knock on him is he tries to play on to much,and forces him to rush a possession.
Look l don't have to look at combine results to see what player's can do,it's there on field performances that matter,and Gibcus is consistent in his efforts from the start to the end.
I would have no problem with us getting Goater,but not at pick 7 or Johnson,Vic mids are better,it's a pity the champs didn't go a head ,lm sure there would be quite a few different conversations .


Also l think the Tigers might take James Cousins as a depth player in the Rookie draft.
 

bullus_hit

Whatchu talkin about Jack?
Apr 3, 2006
13,446
2,394
Waxing the lyrical lololol,l don't know what hymn book your preaching from.
Their's a reason why l consider Gibcus for pick 7,it's his field performance,his contested marking and spoiling is excellent,his second efforts are very good,he's agile,his pace is good,his kicking in general is good,the only knock on him is he tries to play on to much,and forces him to rush a possession.
Look l don't have to look at combine results to see what player's can do,it's there on field performances that matter,and Gibcus is consistent in his efforts from the start to the end.
I would have no problem with us getting Goater,but not at pick 7 or Johnson,Vic mids are better,it's a pity the champs didn't go a head ,lm sure there would be quite a few different conversations .


Also l think the Tigers might take James Cousins as a depth player in the Rookie draft.
Interestingly Bengal, and you have highlighted that in your post, both Gibcus & Goater suffer from a similar rush of blood. And that comment wasn't directed at you personally, I am simply making the point that Goater comes with similar question marks and that you can't have it both ways when assessing their flaws. Have said it numerous times, I have faith in the coaching staff to address these issues and the development of Balta provides me with a utmost confidence that it isn't pie in the sky optimism, but all things said and done, a flaw is a flaw & that means you have to mark them down. I don't have the same concerns with Johnson, hence the reason he is a potential top ten pick.
 
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