2021 Draft Thread | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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2021 Draft Thread

Important article by Caldum. The narrative for a week has been that Richmond won the draft, so it was crucial someone point out that we lost.
How did we lose?
I disagree with that conclusion. Because we couldn't pull off a trade (which was never guaranteed) we somehow failed?

We took five talented players inside 30.
If none of them play a game and kids behind ours win Brownlow or play 200 games perhaps.

But you miss that we manoeuvred ourselves into a position to get those additional picks to begin with.
 
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How did we lose?
I disagree with that conclusion. Because we couldn't pull off a trade (which was never guaranteed) we somehow failed?

We took five talented players inside 30.
If none of them play a game and kids behind ours win Brownlow or play 200 games perhaps.

But you miss that we manoeuvred ourselves into a position to get those additional picks to begin with.
You misunderstand me, General. I don't think we lost, I'm saying "the narrative" has to say we lost, or at least didn't win.
 
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You misunderstand me, General. I don't think we lost, I'm saying "the narrative" has to say we lost, or at least didn't win.
The definition of winners & losers is lost on me, let's just wait and see. I do remember every scribe, every phantom drafter & every man and his dog claiming Rayner was the clear number 1, doubt anyone would have that now, probably not even top 10. I personally think Collingwood cleaned up from their lowly draft position and might show up plenty of higher clubs.
 
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If you scan the best rebounders in the comp you will see they can be sourced from anywhere outside the top 20, history doesn't lie where this is concerned and the fact we picked up Bach for a packet of crisps should have been our historical yardstick.

Short - rookie draft
Saad - rookie draft
Lloyd - rookie draft
Crisp - pick 86
Ryan - pick 66
Daniel - pick 46

Got to play the percentages, this is what I'm alluding to when I call out a reach in the context of meeting our list requirements. The downside of Brown should also have come into consideration because we're talking outright bust if his contested game falls apart at the next level. I don't share the same concerns with Johnson, I think his role is simply too valuable and he's the most likely to take over from Mundy when he decides to hang up the boots. Guys with Johnson's height can also be thrown around the park a bit so his floor is much higher.
Problem is Brown would have not been there at 23 at that deal.To many people getting caught up with Brown and Banks as only half backs I don't see it that way I see versatility in midfield and wing to both good heights.

While I agree with you Johnson has a a big scope he could be a very well bust to mate.

Bullus hit Matt Hammelmann would have been a great rookie pick for us bit of insurance for our key forwards.
 
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Problem is Brown would have not been there at 23 at that deal.To many people getting caught up with Brown and Banks as only half backs I don't see it that way I see versatility in midfield and wing to both good heights.

While I agree with you Johnson has a a big scope he could be a very well bust to mate.

Bullus hit Matt Hammelmann would have been a great rookie pick for us bit of insurance for our key forwards.
This is where my philosophy and Clarke's are clearly at odds, no drama, let's just wait and see I suppose. I personally think Johnson is one of the safest picks given his kicking skill, elite agility, speed & versatility. I also think flankers in the first round is a no-no unless there's elite qualities, Brown hopefully comes out shiny where that's concerned.

The other point is Clarke seems to feel very comfortable with the second tier mids, I don't and can see numerous issues as we approach retirement age with our stars.

As for insurance for our key forwards, Hammelmann not a terrible suggestion but we've put all the eggs in the cat B basket. No rookies this year which is interesting. I think Bailey Williams & Bytel would have gone a long way to addressing these issues and that's why I was prepared to trade a future first to get that particular deal over the line.

Anyhow, I'll leave it there for now, best of luck to the next generation, I'd rather be proven wrong on this occasion, plenty at stake & I hope it's not a revisiting of the Griffiths situation where we overlooked Fyfe, Carlisle, Gunston, Duncan & Gawn at pick 18. That tells you a bit about the opportunity cost of missing with such a premium pick.
 
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I also know for a fact we really liked Wilmont but knew there was plenty of interest
Shocking shafted us again. If Toby Greene plays last year they beat Geesook and we end up with pick 15 instead of 17.

Pick 15 probably gets a trade done with West C or Bombers for Hobbs and if not then we are ahead of Brisvegas for Wilmot
 
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There's a good article in a certain Website that shows that after we drafted Gibcus we got on the phone to try trade with St Kilda to get Hobbs. They didn't want to go back to 17.
West Coast were called, but were already dealing with Port.
Essendon knocked us back too.

Clearly we wanted Hobbs pretty bad to try three times after our pick.
Interesting reading , good to see we’re trying everything possible.

Normally I prefer the hard nut in and under , however I think we’ve got the better future player in Brown over Hobbs, it’s certainly off to a good start when Dudoro picks Hobbs over Brown.
 
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This is where my philosophy and Clarke's are clearly at odds, no drama, let's just wait and see I suppose. I personally think Johnson is one of the safest picks given his kicking skill, elite agility, speed & versatility. I also think flankers in the first round is a no-no unless there's elite qualities, Brown hopefully comes out shiny where that's concerned.

The other point is Clarke seems to feel very comfortable with the second tier mids, I don't and can see numerous issues as we approach retirement age with our stars.

As for insurance for our key forwards, Hammelmann not a terrible suggestion but we've put all the eggs in the cat B basket. No rookies this year which is interesting. I think Bailey Williams & Bytel would have gone a long way to addressing these issues and that's why I was prepared to trade a future first to get that particular deal over the line.

Anyhow, I'll leave it there for now, best of luck to the next generation, I'd rather be proven wrong on this occasion, plenty at stake & I hope it's not a revisiting of the Griffiths situation where we overlooked Fyfe, Carlisle, Gunston, Duncan & Gawn at pick 18. That tells you a bit about the opportunity cost of missing with such a premium pick.
We also need to remember that this is just one draft into our rebuild. We have three good picks next year and if that happens to get us a key forward and a couple of quality midfielders then the overall haul of 8 picks looks much better balanced. This is a marathon, not a sprint.
 
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We also need to remember that this is just one draft into our rebuild. We have three good picks next year and if that happens to get us a key forward and a couple of quality midfielders then the overall haul of 8 picks looks much better balanced. This is a marathon, not a sprint.
It's a reasonable point and now the pressure is on to find those parts. I think it will be tough, I tend to think you strike while the iron is hot, Clarke seems to be finding the easy parts first and leaving the difficult ones for last. That's not how I tend go about things but once again we have to be patient and see what he produces next year. That's already a key back (Sam Taylor), a ruck/forward (Williams) & a 189cm dual sided mid (Bytel) he's ignored in previous drafts and now a 193cm polished midfielder (Johnson) to add to the list. I'm sceptical, the glow of the Bolton/Graham draft is starting to wear off for me personally.
 
It's a reasonable point and now the pressure is on to find those parts. I think it will be tough, I tend to think you strike while the iron is hot, Clarke seems to be finding the easy parts first and leaving the difficult ones for last. That's not how I tend go about things but once again we have to be patient and see what he produces next year. That's already a key back (Sam Taylor), a ruck/forward (Williams) & a 189cm dual sided mid (Bytel) he's ignored in previous drafts and now a 193cm polished midfielder (Johnson) to add to the list. I'm sceptical, the glow of the Bolton/Graham draft is starting to wear off for me personally.
I'll happily agree with you on Sam Taylor, Bully.

But it doesn't help your argument when you mention Williams and Bytel until they establish themselves as regular senior AFL footballers.
 
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I get the feeling the club is working on actually bringing in a big inside mid via trade or free agency but currently cant due to cap constraints but will be in a better position in 12-24 mnths and are just getting the other pieces in order.

KPF & Big Inside mid are the glaring weaknesses on the list currently that need the most urgent attention
 
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I'll happily agree with you on Sam Taylor, Bully.

But it doesn't help your argument when you mention Williams and Bytel until they establish themselves as regular senior AFL footballers.
I'd rather Bytel & Williams than Dow, I think the odds are in my favour and I'm fully aware there could be a bust amongst these two but this is a numbers game & I'm merely playing the odds. It's very unlikely Williams loses value even as a second stringer, Bytel's last game showed enormous promise, improvement seems inevitable from my perspective.
 
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That's already a key back (Sam Taylor), a ruck/forward (Williams) & a 189cm dual sided mid (Bytel) he's ignored in previous drafts and now a 193cm polished midfielder (Johnson) to add to the list
Taylor is the only miss of substance, you were a huge fan, you were bang on. The other two have shown very little (ruck averaging 6 touches in 9 games and a mid averaging 11 in 13) Johnson is yet to play a game. Nothing to fret over yet.
I'm sceptical, the glow of the Bolton/Graham draft is starting to wear off for me personally.

These are way bigger hits than any miss you outlined. He is still in front of the ledger.
 
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How were you going to get Bytel and Williams, Bullus? I searched and at the time you said you'd have traded the 2019 pick that we used on Dow - but to whom? Who had two picks prior to 35 that they were giving us for that? It's easy to say, "I would have traded to get Williams and Bytel" - but how?

You also said you would have traded back in to 2019 with a 2020 pick, which means you wouldn't have had the pick to trade to Geelong last year and thus wouldn't have had 17 to take Johnson.

There appears to be a lot of cake in your mouth yet still somehow on the table.
 
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Taylor is the only miss of substance, you were a huge fan, you were bang on. The other two have shown very little (ruck averaging 6 touches in 9 games and a mid averaging 11 in 13) Johnson is yet to play a game. Nothing to fret over yet.


These are way bigger hits than any miss you outlined. He is still in front of the ledger.
They were pretty obvious picks, I think I gave an overwhelming tick of approval in that particular draft. As for Bytel & Williams, they have both come from a long way back, the stress fractures not an issue with Bytel and Williams just about to enter the zone where talls hit their straps. Both these players I identified as rare commodities deep in the draft & worthy of an aggressive trade. But you're right, they haven't made it yet but I'm confident they will, already Bytel shaping up as a high tackling ball winner, he's impressed me in the few games I've seen him play a full match.
 
How were you going to get Bytel and Williams, Bullus? I searched and at the time you said you'd have traded the 2019 pick that we used on Dow - but to whom? Who had two picks prior to 35 that they were giving us for that? It's easy to say, "I would have traded to get Williams and Bytel" - but how?

You also said you would have traded back in to 2019 with a 2020 pick, which means you wouldn't have had the pick to trade to Geelong last year and thus wouldn't have had 17 to take Johnson.

There appears to be a lot of cake in your mouth yet still somehow on the table.
Can't win sometimes, I copped a serve for making the suggestion, I documented the trade like I do every year & now I'm being accused of fantasy trades.

Trades - After securing Riley Collier-Dawkins last night, list managers approached the Western Bulldogs and offered them next year's first for pick 27 & pick 37 (a pick they were using on Rhylee West). Dogs accepted given it was a free hit next year & they also get West.

Pick 20. Riley Collier-Dawkins (rank 18)
Pick 27. Bailey Williams (rank 11)
Pick 37. Jack Bytel (rank 27)
Pick 38. Jack Ross (Ess pick for Saad last year)
Pick 58. Fraser Turner (rank 29)
Pick 62. Tom McKenzie (rank 33)


2016 Draftees

Pick 29. Shai Bolton



I'm genuinely excited by this selection and in some ways can't quite understand how players like Ben Long & Cedric Cox were selected before Shai, I may be proven wrong but I think Bolton will eventually rise above these two once he gets some miles into the legs and puts on some much needed mass. He has all the tricks - speed, evasion, dual-sided kicking, leap & major scoreboard impact. His form in the All-Stars game was an excellent preview into what lays ahead and together with Daniel Rioli I'm predicting some serious indigenous magic to return to Punt Road. Pick 29 = Steal.

Pick 30. Josh Rotham (Yarran second rounder)



The cost of the Yarran trade will come back to haunt us, the sum total is now official - Riley Bonner & Josh Rotham. The fact that these guys can also play in Yarran's position is all the more galling, but I sincerely hope that lessons have been learnt. I personally rate Rotham a top 20 talent and had him placed at 15 in my rankings, the reasons for this were numerous. Firstly he possesses elite pace and presents as a genuine line breaker, coming in at 192cm this combination of speed & height is rare and could eventually translate to a midfield role. Rotham's leap is also elite and if he does cut it further up the ground then he'll be a very difficult player to match up on. Averaging 22 touches a game at Colts level there's enough evidence to suggest this isn't pie in the sky optimism. Rotham's disposal is also very good so it now becomes a question of building the tank and working on his defensive side, something which should occur with a couple of season's under his belt.

Pick 56. Jack Graham



Sometimes the cards fall your way and to have Graham available at pick 56 rounded out an excellent draft for Richmond. Our luck cannot be underestimated, Graham flew up to Brisbane and was interviewed two days before the draft, he was clearly in contention at pick 22, fortunately Brisbane had Cedric Cox ranked higher and the rest is history. To get a Larke medalist & state captain at pick 56 is highway robbery and with any luck this could well turn out to be our Andrew Swallow moment. Graham isn't without his flaws, his kicking can be scrappy but given he played with a quad injury throughout the year it's not unreasonable to expect some improvement with his depth and general accuracy. More importantly he's as tough as nails and is the type you want in a finals campaign.

Pick 72 - Ryan Garthwaite



The big knock on Ryan is his kicking technique, it's really the only aspect of his game that's forced him down the order, aside from that he's an excellent one on one defender and rarely gets beaten. The fact he can also rack up big possession tallies is a reminder that he's much more than than just a dour shutdown player in the Talia mode. In saying all this, there's no denying that his double handed ball drop needs to be refined so that he gets ball to boot much quicker. If this can be achieved then we have an AFL footballer on our hands. If not then it will be a case of a boom/bust pick which didn't quite pay off. Given our bigman stocks are perilously low I'm all for this selection and will be a keen observer with regards to modifying his technique.

PSD 6 - Kym Lebois



Just to set the record straight, I don't think Stengle is a bad pick and I give him some sort of chance of making the grade. In this particular instance I just happen to prefer Lebois because I feel he has more weapons and some extra versatility that may see him transition to the midfield. After the combine Lebois flew up my personal rankings, his speed is elite and he clocked in a faster repeat sprint time than Shai Bolton. On top of that his endurance testing was solid and he has the potential to increase that even further once he gets a few preseasons under his belt.

Now for a brief comment on using the PSD, as I've been advocating for a few years now, the preseason draft may be dead to some but this also presents as a huge opportunity to snatch the first pick in the rookie draft. It also provides a bit of a breather between drafts where one can analyse the pool and work out the best strategy in addressing list requirements. The fact that Maric is wasting a spot on the main list also deems the financial argument redundant. I'm ok with targeting a small forward this late because it's playing the odds to a tee, but I'd also want a guy who could feasibly replicate the feats of Charlie Cameron and eventually move up the ground. All things considered I'm not convinced that Stengle can do that and that's why I'd be taking Lebois at this point.

Rookie Draft Pick 6 - Peter Ladhams



We needed a key forward & we needed a ruck, given Zach Sproule got caught up in the Greater Western Swindle the only option as I saw it was to grab a player who could feasibly fill both roles. Ladhams has kicked goals at reserves level and has proven he's more than just a one dimensional tap ruckman. His athletic testing was also impressive, a 3.05sec/20m & a 13.6 beep which was a vast improvement on his early season numbers. With Vickery out the door Ladhams presented as the best option and should have been preferred over an ageing Maric. Those who feel tokenism is inconsequential need to consider the lost development time, particularly with rucks. A player like Ladhams is unlikely to lose value, even as a second stringer.

Rookie draft pick 24 - Luke Bunker



All I can say is don't give up on your ambitions Luke, unbelievably stiff to miss out despite performing well at the state carnival & at TAC level. The fact he's ranked in the top 25 by Champion Data speaks volumes. Bunker is the type I'd want for the Richmond reserves, in fact I hope we're making inquiries as we speak. As I understand he was contacted by half a dozen clubs but none called out his name on draft day. In this instance it just has to be some hard graft in the VFL and to take solace in the fact that Darcy Cameron & Willie Rioli finally realised their dream after 3 years in the wilderness.