911 Truth Movement | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
  • IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.

911 Truth Movement

Do you think the US government should hold an independent investigation into the events surrounding


  • Total voters
    63

Liverpool

How did that Julia and Kevin thing work out? :)
Jan 24, 2005
9,054
1
Melbourne
Disco08 said:
The war on terror. Do you know how much a war like that can make for the families that own the companies that supply it? Do you know that every time the US needs more money the same families give it to them as a debt that cannot be paid off?

Then instead of going through a massive operation that involved hundreds, if not thousands of people, swear them to secrecy, murder thousands of innocents, and destroy a city block in the process.........why not use these ingenious minds to plant some WMD in Iraq so people would find them, to justify the "war on terror"??

Why also shoot down/crash an irliner into a farm and then fly a plane (or, if you believe the conspiracy theorists, use a missile) to attack the Pentagon?

Surely the destruction of the Twin Towers and 3,000-odd people would have already been enough to get everyone's attention.

Its all far-fetched rubbish.

And to top it off, didn't Bin Laden confess to being behind it anyway?



Deja vu anyone: http://www.puntroadend.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=24000.0
 

tigersnake

Tear 'em apart
Sep 10, 2003
23,765
12,292
Disco08 said:
Fair enough. The average group of people aren't that organised. People with a lot of power and greedy motives have proved to be highly organised time and time again. You think the highest powers in the US (not just the politicians) have been up front and truthful about everything that's happened in their history?

I mildly resent your accustion that I'd beleive blindly even if you showed me some great evidence that you managed to research. Pretty condescending considering you've just admitted to not researching the subject at all.

The Pres of the US, a pretty powerful bloke, could't pull off such a pissant conspiracy as to burgle the opposition flies in the Watergate Building in Washington DC.

As long as its only mild resentment Duck. But I've argued logically, presented evidence, and its made no difference so far.
 

Disco08

Tiger Legend
Sep 23, 2003
21,757
3
Yeah snakey, I wouldn't ever get upset over a discussion like this. Not sure how you've argued logically and I haven't though. I'd still like to hear how an analogy between the experts for the CD of WTC7 and ID makes any sense whatsover. I'd also like to know what "evidence" you've presented?

Who's saying it must have been the president? Surely there are more powerful men in the world with greater motivation?
 

Disco08

Tiger Legend
Sep 23, 2003
21,757
3
Liverpool said:
Then instead of going through a massive operation that involved hundreds, if not thousands of people, swear them to secrecy, murder thousands of innocents, and destroy a city block in the process.........why not use these ingenious minds to plant some WMD in Iraq so people would find them, to justify the "war on terror"??

Why also shoot down/crash an irliner into a farm and then fly a plane (or, if you believe the conspiracy theorists, use a missile) to attack the Pentagon?

Surely the destruction of the Twin Towers and 3,000-odd people would have already been enough to get everyone's attention.

Its all far-fetched rubbish.

And to top it off, didn't Bin Laden confess to being behind it anyway?



Deja vu anyone: http://www.puntroadend.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=24000.0

It makes the most sense to me that Bin Laden organised the attacks and was allowed to carry them out by people unknown but clearly very high ranking and well connected. Many strange facts add up in this scenario IMO.
 

Disco08

Tiger Legend
Sep 23, 2003
21,757
3
YOu should watch some of the links Harry posted Phil. Pretty compelling stuff. Zeitgeist is an interesting watch too with a section on the mechanics of modern oppression.
 

TigerForce

Tiger Legend
Apr 26, 2004
71,325
22,238
57
willo said:
Just one question to those who believe it wasn't the work of osama bin Laden/Al Qaida?
Who do you think WAS responsible?

Just like snakey said, the debate's run out of steam now that it's 11 years on, although it still shows its large bruises. I don't have much mental strength in debating this for now (as I did in the original 9/11 thread) but I do remember that Larry Silverstein was a possible instigator.

If it was OBL as most believe, one strange thought that comes to mind is: why use planes??
 

TigerForce

Tiger Legend
Apr 26, 2004
71,325
22,238
57
Punxsutawney Phil said:
Has been a good read. i love a good conspiracy theory.

Watch a 1975 film called: Three days of the Condor and you'll see some similarities.
 

Azza

Tiger Champion
Aug 30, 2007
4,057
0
From a complete cynic about conspiracy theories - I've had a wander through http://www.septembercoup.com/911.htm and there are some mighty odd things being pointed out.
 

Punxsutawney Phil

Its Groundhog Day- same sh!t, different year
Apr 2, 2007
7,705
2
Disco08 said:
YOu should watch some of the links Harry posted Phil. Pretty compelling stuff. Zeitgeist is an interesting watch too with a section on the mechanics of modern oppression.

Cheers Disco, I might just do that. All very interesting.
 

Harry

Tiger Legend
Mar 2, 2003
24,588
12,185
Disco08 said:
Surely there are more powerful men in the world with greater motivation?

Bush couldn't organise a bbq. people have been fed the official story by the mass media and most believe it. the media knew it was Bin Laden 2 minutes after the attack. They even knew WTC7 collapsed before it did. the people pulling the presidents strings also pull the media's. easy to orchestrate the 911 attacks and have people believe your story if you control the media and have it drilled into minds that it's unpatriotic to question the official story. you don't have to police the truth seekers, the general public will do it for you.

how does building 7 collpse in a tidy manner from office fires? the explosions that witnesses heard all over the place? evidence of thermite found in the rubble? how does a passenger plane create the small hole in the pentagon? where was the debris from the plane at the pentagon and the other that fell in the field? how can terrorists manouver such planes and hit their targets? the most heavily protected airspace in the world did not intercept the planes? training drills performed on the same day? bush not responding to "we're being attacked and just sitting there. then saying I watched the first plane hit the tower on TV when it wasn't televised at the time? Silverstein saying pull it before building 7 came down.
 

Harry

Tiger Legend
Mar 2, 2003
24,588
12,185
tigersnake said:
For the sake of argument lets take that as read. What about my point of the logistical impossibility of organising and maintaining secrecy of such a huge and complex conspiracy plan? Thats where conspiracies really fall over.

not really. the main people involved would have their people in all the high places to co-ordinate what needs co-ordinating. this would be disguised as some other operation, ie training drills at NORAD, or R&M of the elevators at the twin towers, and the people beneath wouldn't ask questions. those who do and persist with the questions would be threatened or would commit suicide or die in a car accident. most likely bush didn't know fully what was going on. and the media, who again are controlled by these at the top feed the public info to keep them in line and keep those questioning the events in line.
 

Azza

Tiger Champion
Aug 30, 2007
4,057
0
Harry said:
Bush couldn't organise a bbq. people have been fed the official story by the mass media and most believe it. the media knew it was Bin Laden 2 minutes after the attack. They even knew WTC7 collapsed before it did. the people pulling the presidents strings also pull the media's. easy to orchestrate the 911 attacks and have people believe your story if you control the media and have it drilled into minds that it's unpatriotic to question the official story. you don't have to police the truth seekers, the general public will do it for you.

how does building 7 collpse in a tidy manner from office fires? the explosions that witnesses heard all over the place? evidence of thermite found in the rubble? how does a passenger plane create the small hole in the pentagon? where was the debris from the plane at the pentagon and the other that fell in the field? how can terrorists manouver such planes and hit their targets? the most heavily protected airspace in the world did not intercept the planes? training drills performed on the same day? bush not responding to "we're being attacked and just sitting there. then saying I watched the first plane hit the tower on TV when it wasn't televised at the time? Silverstein saying pull it before building 7 came down.

No black boxes found.
 

Baloo

Delisted Free Agent
Nov 8, 2005
44,178
19,050
Harry said:
where was the debris from the plane at the pentagon and the other that fell in the field?
tt5iQtD_gg487591258824055PentagonDebrisMontageco.jpg

insidedebriscolorcomparison.jpg
 

tigersnake

Tear 'em apart
Sep 10, 2003
23,765
12,292
Harry said:
Bush couldn't organise a bbq. people have been fed the official story by the mass media and most believe it. the media knew it was Bin Laden 2 minutes after the attack. They even knew WTC7 collapsed before it did. the people pulling the presidents strings also pull the media's. easy to orchestrate the 911 attacks and have people believe your story if you control the media and have it drilled into minds that it's unpatriotic to question the official story. you don't have to police the truth seekers, the general public will do it for you.

how does building 7 collpse in a tidy manner from office fires? the explosions that witnesses heard all over the place? evidence of thermite found in the rubble? how does a passenger plane create the small hole in the pentagon? where was the debris from the plane at the pentagon and the other that fell in the field? how can terrorists manouver such planes and hit their targets? the most heavily protected airspace in the world did not intercept the planes? training drills performed on the same day? bush not responding to "we're being attacked and just sitting there. then saying I watched the first plane hit the tower on TV when it wasn't televised at the time? Silverstein saying pull it before building 7 came down.

re 'pulling the Presidents strings and the media's'. The thing is, powerful and elite interests don't have to come up with elaborate conspiracies to further and protect their own interests. The majority of political theories, Network Theory, Elite Theory, Neo-Marxist Theory, Pluralism Theory, Corporatism Theory all say pretty much the same thing, powerful people have shared interests, and broadly speaking, all row in the same direction, sing from the same songsheet. Its unjust, greedy and pretty sinister at times (such as the current tendency of Mining Corporations and governments understating the adverse affects of coal seam gas), but there is generally no secret conspiracy. There is the odd simple one that would be exposed, and I'm sure there would also be the odd one that wouldn't be (eg, Lord Monkton suggesting that Gina Rhinehart should buy shares in a TV channel and put her CC views forward, that was exposed, but could easily have not been). But generally, I can't see how there could be large scale elaborate conspiracies involving mass murder in a western nation.

As for the people suppressing those questioning the official story, not true. As I states earlier, I was at the s11 memorial service in 2010. I was amazed and impressed at how tolerant and open people were toward the truth movement people, who were there in force. I got a photo of an old bloke holding up a sign saying 'bush bombed NY to spark world War', right near where the podium was where they read the names of the dead. Nobody batted an eyelid. I spoke to a fireman about it, he told me the US believes in free speech. I also saw a big Truth movement rally in washington Square, a sacred site of US democracy, same thing, I asked people why they weren't being abused, everyone was totally fine with it. Amazing and impressive.

As for your questions on building 7, Baloo posted a synopsis of the official report, which addressed the demolition conpiracy theory, including the presence of thermite. And as I said above, people hearing explosions is a red herring, for a few reasons. As for your other points, dunno everything about it, but the Popular Mechanics inquiry found that a lot of apparently compelling contradictions were actually just details that were mis-reported in the chaos.
 

Willo

Tiger Legend
Oct 13, 2007
18,691
6,641
Aldinga Beach
tigersnake said:
I've researched it, not in depth. The topic was interesting a few years ago. Its run out of steam now. I was in NY for the S11 memorial service in 2010. Amazing experience. The truth dudes were out in force. I was amazed at how they were 100% tolerated. Army, cops, firemen, heaps of people like me who take it at face value, all tolerant. I still have the Truth DVD they gave me somewhere.

Willo and Liverpool, the motivation for the conspiracy comes in large part from the profiteering that resulted from the Iraq/ Afganistan wars. Donald Rumsfeld, who many, myself included, believed was the 'real' president. His company Haliburton made billions out or war contracts. Plenty of $$ motivation.

Personally, I'd challenge anyone to read 'All the President's Men' and still believe it would be possible to execute such a conspiracy and keep it quiet for 11 years

Thanks for that. So do all the people who advocate that it wasn't OBL agree that it was Rumsfeld and/or the American business machine.
Or was it the Israelis? Or some other party?
Surely there has to be a party that would benefit the most. If it was a "demolition job" how was it carried out? The logistics would be hard to keep secret. While it's ok to have these "conspiracy' theories and I'm not saying yes or no either way, just keeping an open mind, there has to be some evidence of who, why and how it was carried out, you'd think.
Even accepting evidence that thermite was present.


Interesting read http://economicsandpeace.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/The-Economic-Consequences-of-War-on-US-Economy.pdf
 

Chiang Mai Tiger

Time for some Tiger Payback
Jun 17, 2004
5,758
25
Thailand
tigersnake said:
Donald Rumsfeld, who many, myself included, believed was the 'real' president. His company Haliburton made billions out or war contracts. Plenty of $$ motivation.

Sorry Snake but that was VP *smile* Cheney
 

tigersnake

Tear 'em apart
Sep 10, 2003
23,765
12,292
Chiang Mai Tiger said:
Sorry Snake but that was VP *smile* Cheney

Right you are CMT, got mixed up. I'll post my photos if anyone is interested, just gotta work out how to do it ??? Won't let me do it, files too large, oh well
 

Harry

Tiger Legend
Mar 2, 2003
24,588
12,185
tigersnake said:
As for your questions on building 7, Baloo posted a synopsis of the official report,

still doesn't explain the symmetrical, neat collapse at free fall of the building. If the fires were so intense as to melt the steel (questionable in itself) it would have toppled over gradually. the laws of motion and physics would suggest that all resistance points were taken away at the same time. virtually impossible that a randomly burning fire would do this.
 

Baloo

Delisted Free Agent
Nov 8, 2005
44,178
19,050
Harry said:
still doesn't explain the symmetrical, neat collapse at free fall of the building. If the fires were so intense as to melt the steel (questionable in itself) it would have toppled over gradually. the laws of motion and physics would suggest that all resistance points were taken away at the same time. virtually impossible that a randomly burning fire would do this.

I thought it did explain it. The minute one of the 4 major supports gave way, the extra weight on the other three caused them to give way as well. While it might seem instantaneous, it wasn't.