ARC Appeal | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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ARC Appeal

leon

Tiger Legend
Apr 6, 2014
9,072
4,604
Because I think if we have lost a final because an incorrect overruling of an umpire's decision then we are entitled to know that and what is going to be done to address it in future.

The club opened the door by questioning the decision after the game and in the media following. To then go and have a tour and not follow up by letting everyone know where it stands is not good enough.

It's not like they have to blow up the AFL, we saw the footage and don't agree it was sufficient to overrule if all they needed to say.
Has it occurred to you that the very confidential viewing that Dimma and other RFC reps may have been conditional on no controversial media response, or none at all i.e. the AFL wanting to silence and kill the topic for good, or else? Given how controlling an organisation it is with its billion $ concerns to guard and insulate as much as it possibly can from negative coverage, given they have already been in huge damage control re ongoing problems such as the indigenous complaints at Dawks inquiry, this likelihood is entirely credible and consistent with past practice.

Certainly the AFL only stood to lose more support/authority if continuing doubt over the whole debacle emerged, with RFC having nothing to gain as others have pointed out. What? Have the integrity of the whole finals program put under continuing strain against desiring highly positive promotions?

Quite simply, if the AFL has irrefutable proof of a correct adjudication, why has it not been made available to the full football community? Instead of a supposedly conclusive, belated, furtive/secret meeting with a couple of RFC officials? No wonder there's been no comment from us. AFL has almost total power, including over the media who cannot risk losing access to the AFL gravy train.
 
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gold1

Tiger Champion
Feb 24, 2008
2,846
1,164
The backroom deal has been done.The Tiges will be given 10 ARC appeals in their favour this year.
 
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snags

Tiger Superstar
Oct 28, 2005
1,781
2,135
It just goes back to AFL’s rubbery rules that support its desire to never accept fault and potentially manipulate results. Just like the non time wasting call with Prestia where it was ruled the Swans player did not hear the siren and it was a good common sense approach not to give 50. WTF? Rules are there for a reason. Bottom line on ARC it required definitive proof to overrule. AFL could’ve put this to bed with that footage if it existed. To argue any other way is missing the point. We were dudded.
 
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23.21.159

A Tiger in Denmark
Aug 9, 2003
6,125
2,302
Denmark
www.dafl.dk
Historically I have always tried to resist the "AFL have it in for Richmond" agenda that persists on this forum. But this one was it for me. No event has so clearly demonstrated the agenda, conclusively, as this one has. And there have been a few. Can not be denied. Even Richmond-hating supporters of other clubs change the subject when you bring this one up. They know.
 
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Sintiger

Tiger Legend
Aug 11, 2010
18,596
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Historically I have always tried to resist the "AFL have it in for Richmond" agenda that persists on this forum. But this one was it for me. No event has so clearly demonstrated the agenda, conclusively, as this one has. And there have been a few. Can not be denied. Even Richmond-hating supporters of other clubs change the subject when you bring this one up. They know.
It’s not a popular view 23-21 but I don’t buy the conspiracy theory in this case.
I just think the adjudicators on the day *smile* up and that the AFL know it but will never admit it
 
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TigerForce

Tiger Legend
Apr 26, 2004
71,321
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It’s not a popular view 23-21 but I don’t buy the conspiracy theory in this case.
I just think the adjudicators on the day *smile* up and that the AFL know it but will never admit it
It's not a conspiracy, just some type of envy on our club.
 

CarnTheTiges

This is a REAL tiger
Mar 8, 2004
25,472
11,366
Victoria
It’s not a popular view 23-21 but I don’t buy the conspiracy theory in this case.
I just think the adjudicators on the day *smile* up and that the AFL know it but will never admit it
They’d probably get more respect from everyone if they occasionally admitted that they made a mistake.
 
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DavidSSS

Tiger Legend
Dec 11, 2017
10,719
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Melbourne
Quite simply, if the AFL has irrefutable proof of a correct adjudication, why has it not been made available to the full football community?

This.

It is not the Richmond Football Club's responsibility to explain the AFL's adjudication, that is the AFL's responsibility. As usual the AFL do not explain and just walk away and wait for the incident to drift into the past. They have so much form doing this it is not funny.

The rule is that the umpire's decision can only be over-ruled with conclusive evidence that the decision was incorrect. There is no conclusive evidence, if there was you can be sure the AFL would have produced it by now. They can't even adjudicate their own rules.

Gross incompetence, but no-one is surprised when the AFL stuff up adjudication of the game, too regular an occurence to be a surprise.

DS
 
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RoarEmotion

Tiger Legend
Aug 20, 2005
5,130
6,848
It’s not a popular view 23-21 but I don’t buy the conspiracy theory in this case.
I just think the adjudicators on the day *smile* up and that the AFL know it but will never admit it
This is the most likely conclusion. I still have concerns gambling on the under over was involved because the non following of protocol was pretty blatant and your only procedure to follow in that job.
 
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DavidSSS

Tiger Legend
Dec 11, 2017
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This is the most likely conclusion. I still have concerns gambling on the under over was involved because the non following of protocol was pretty blatant and your only procedure to follow in that job.

The speed of the decision, especially given the difficulties in determining both the height and the position of the ball in terms of when it crossed the goal line, was weird to say the least. That is what causes suspicion given how inconclusive the footage was.

I still think it was just gross incompetence and that the off-field umpires are too willing to over-rule, but I can understand why people are suspicious given how quickly they determined that the ball would have hit the post on the basis of very inconclusive evidence.

DS
 
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CarnTheTiges

This is a REAL tiger
Mar 8, 2004
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The speed of the decision, especially given the difficulties in determining both the height and the position of the ball in terms of when it crossed the goal line, was weird to say the least. That is what causes suspicion given how inconclusive the footage was.

I still think it was just gross incompetence and that the off-field umpires are too willing to over-rule, but I can understand why people are suspicious given how quickly they determined that the ball would have hit the post on the basis of very inconclusive evidence.

DS
There have been ones much easier to pick than this one which took a lot more time to decide on. When it was referred I think whoever ran the ARC that night had already decided it wasn’t a goal based on Lynch’s reaction and made the overrule accordingly. Then of course the AFL in their gross arrogance refused to admit that they were wrong and this is where we wind up.
 
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momentai

Tiger Legend
Jul 24, 2004
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There have been ones much easier to pick than this one which took a lot more time to decide on. When it was referred I think whoever ran the ARC that night had already decided it wasn’t a goal based on Lynch’s reaction and made the overrule accordingly. Then of course the AFL in their gross arrogance refused to admit that they were wrong and this is where we wind up.
There is so much that has been written about Lynch’s response.

Lynch’s response has nothing to do with how the rules are supposed to be applied.
Players responses are written out of what is considered and there is no reason to think that his response was a factor in the reviewing umpires decision.

The most his response could be said to indicate was that he didn’t know.
 
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Jul 26, 2004
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Great Tiger but I found Richo's commentary really annoying around Lynch's body language as an indication of result. 'The definitive angle was Lynch's response.'
Rightio.
 
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RoarEmotion

Tiger Legend
Aug 20, 2005
5,130
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Maybe lynch was disappointed that he didn’t get it right through the middle and was already expecting to get shafted even though he thought it was probably a goal.

I hope we win this year so we can Put this in the gagf AFL joke box.
 
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The_General

It's been a very hard working from home
Staff member
May 4, 2004
11,064
7,409
I'm not a subscriber to a great conspiracy theory IN THIS INSTANCE.
I agree with the theory someone screwed up.
It's no secret, in fact it's been advertised via the media we've been at war with city hall. I'd almost certainly imagine a screw up of this magnitude could lead to a, "we'll put down the guns if you stay quiet" approach. Losing a potential run at a flag over an error is a huge cost, and the AFL know it.
We haven't come out and said "it's OK Tiger's fans, we saw the footage and it's a correct decision" afterwards. In fact Hardwick stayed away from clarifying anything like that afterwards.
I agree that historically things have been harder for us than they should have been, but dont think this decision is a result of that. The AFL cant afford to screw the integrity of the finals series, and don't believe there was an intention to. It'll be interesting to see if that uphill battle changes this year as a result though.
 
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TigerForce

Tiger Legend
Apr 26, 2004
71,321
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I'm not a subscriber to a great conspiracy theory IN THIS INSTANCE.
I agree with the theory someone screwed up.
It's no secret, in fact it's been advertised via the media we've been at war with city hall. I'd almost certainly imagine a screw up of this magnitude could lead to a, "we'll put down the guns if you stay quiet" approach. Losing a potential run at a flag over an error is a huge cost, and the AFL know it.
We haven't come out and said "it's OK Tiger's fans, we saw the footage and it's a correct decision" afterwards. In fact Hardwick stayed away from clarifying anything like that afterwards.
I agree that historically things have been harder for us than they should have been, but dont think this decision is a result of that. The AFL cant afford to screw the integrity of the finals series, and don't believe there was an intention to. It'll be interesting to see if that uphill battle changes this year as a result though.
Most likely to happen again I reckon.
 
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momentai

Tiger Legend
Jul 24, 2004
6,343
2,968
Melb
I'm not a subscriber to a great conspiracy theory IN THIS INSTANCE.
I agree with the theory someone screwed up.
It's no secret, in fact it's been advertised via the media we've been at war with city hall. I'd almost certainly imagine a screw up of this magnitude could lead to a, "we'll put down the guns if you stay quiet" approach. Losing a potential run at a flag over an error is a huge cost, and the AFL know it.
We haven't come out and said "it's OK Tiger's fans, we saw the footage and it's a correct decision" afterwards. In fact Hardwick stayed away from clarifying anything like that afterwards.
I agree that historically things have been harder for us than they should have been, but dont think this decision is a result of that. The AFL cant afford to screw the integrity of the finals series, and don't believe there was an intention to. It'll be interesting to see if that uphill battle changes this year as a result though.
You make a lot of sense and I think I agree with this. Can’t go any further than that :)
 
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tommystigers

Don't Boo! It is hurtful to the inept and corrupt.
Oct 6, 2004
4,462
2,369
That's an emotional response though, the facts are the AFL has said the decision was correct and our coach has been through the ARC, had the decision explained to him and not come out and said anything different.

There's no basis to assume the decision was wrong (or right) based on anything we have seen or heard.
No emotion at all TBR. Your response in your quote below is exactly why the decision was wrong. The goal umpire called it a goal.
The ARC footage wasn't conclusive proof of anything. The camera angles were flawed and taken from further back than the 70 metre phone footage. The right decision was insufficient evidence to overturn and umpires call.

When has anyone been allowed to say anything contrary to the AFL? There are punitive fines for those that speak out. Damien is experienced enough to know he would get whacked, or be forced to publicly confess the error of his ways. Nothing to gain because the AFL were never ever going to admit the error.

It's not about refusing to accept it, that just isn't anywhere near conclusive proof of anything.
It's a grainy mobile phone video from 70 metres away on an angle and the ball appears to go awfully close to the post.
Again, there's no way from that to say it's right or wrong with any certainty.
 
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Quickdraw

End of the drought
Jun 8, 2013
2,897
4,411
The most his response could be said to indicate was that he didn’t know.
Spot on. Lynch has said he didn't know because he lost sight of the ball in thhe lights.

Most likely to happen again I reckon.
Unless they upgrade the current potato camera technology (and sack the nucklehead that was running the ARC that night).
 
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snags

Tiger Superstar
Oct 28, 2005
1,781
2,135
Maybe lynch was disappointed that he didn’t get it right through the middle and was already expecting to get shafted even though he thought it was probably a goal.

I hope we win this year so we can Put this in the gagf AFL joke box.
Lynch was disappointed that there wasn’t 50 when knucklehead charged him off the mark before the whistle. Another one missed there.
 
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